All the Military People - Who Is Your Oath To? Are You An Oath Keeper?

I think that this guy makes a very valid point, do law enforcement and soldiers only have an oath to the commander and chief or the people more?

Do the majority of people represent A or B?

I wish we could make this into a poll.

What do you think ATS?

The question is not to whom, but to What...

Having taken this oath that you speak of twice now, and coming up on a third time- the oath in question has this subtle nuance that many seem to overlook: to "uphold and defend the Constitution of the united States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic" (at this point there comes a huge ; signifying a separate complete idea...a "part two" if you will) ";and to obey the orders of the president of the united States, and of the officers appointed over me."

Every single fellow soldier i've asked in the last ten years has always had the same answer when asked what they would do in an "ordered to fire on american citizens" situation...."If they are within their rights, treat it as an un-lawful order."

Again, all fellow soldiers respond without hesitation to whom or what did we all swear an oath to? To which I almost always hear "The Constitution", usually preceded by a puffed out chest.

When I first heard of this organization, it made me happy to know that I wasnt the only one who felt like being intentionally vocal about a feeling that is so commonplace its almost never even spoken of.

But the Army is the only branch I can personally speak of, as it's the only one I have experience with.

reply to post by blood0fheroes


Actually the "obey the orders" part is only in the enlisted oath, as enlisted men are sworn to obey the orders of the officers appointed over them, including the president.

Military officers do not swear to obey the presidents orders.

Also, the enlisted FIRST swear to the constitution, and that takes primacy over all other orders.

Orders in conflict with the constitution must be disobeyed, and those issuing the orders should be courts-martial.

reply to post by mnemeth1


You know I had no idea that officers take a different oath after receiving their commission.
Guess that'll be my "something new learned today".

But the Army is the only branch I can personally speak of, as it's the only one I have experience with.

Do we all not take the same oath of enlistment regardless of service prior to entering the military at the MEPS station?

Your "Army" oath of enlistment is the same as my "Marine" oath of enlistment. Unless I missed something in the past 5 years?

I am thinking of going back in after only 3 months out.

-Nate

reply to post by Acid_Burn2009


Indubitably good sir, I assume it is the same oath in entirety. What I was inferring is that army personnel are the only ones i've had opportunity to ask those questions of, therefore army personnel are the only ones I feel fit to make a generalization of.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Id say yes I am an oath keeper but I care more about the people then those superior to me because they can always take care of themselves but the local populace can hardly defend their loved ones.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Stop-loss!]

If I said I was an oath keeper would you feel better?

I am in fact not an oath keeper and never will be. I took an oath when I joined the Army and as far as I am concerned that is good enough.

If others want to join that stupid little club to make you guys feel better then so be it.

We are indeed a land mass of what could be 50 individual countries. Look at the area around Russia or South America for instance, no unity, only individual countries doing their on thing. Keeping order in a small country like that would not be as complex as it is within a united land mass. The majority of the populace pretty much all agree and have the same ideologies. No civilization will always agree 100% of the time or on the same issues. That is the problem with politics in the U.S. You have 50 separate "small countries" trying to form together as one and make this work.

When we choose to live this way, the "people" can't possibly all have a voice. If everyone got their say so and their way we would be living in chaos. In a united set of states, there can only be One to have the last say so. Or it simply cannot and will not work.

So I believe the Commander and Chief should have the control. It is very important for a society to protect their rights, and if the C.A.C. abuses his power than yes he should be removed. But, he also has a hard job and his decisions will not always go over well with the other states, people and so forth.

His decisions are not always understood by everyone and he probably feels like you should just "trust him". Which we have to pretty much do living under our current system. He may not always have the time to explain to everyone about what is truly going on. His main purpose is to keep order. This is something we're not taught in schools. We have no idea what the president is facing half the time, so we naturally get angry with some of his decisions and so forth. Imagine yourself in his position.

Anyway, but I think its the Presidents call and his orders that law enforcement should follow. We the people don't truly know what is really going on half the time, if not all the time. They keep things quiet not so they can "do what they want" but to keep debate and anger to a minimum from the people. It's time for action, not wasteful hours of debate and anger on many issues.

Most people go about every day worrying about "their" life and on personal affairs. They get set and life by a routine. Work at the factory, sales, medical, food industry, etc etc. These peoples minds have never even pondered politics. Most people see and understand an issue, but never the "big" picture. With politics every issue is new paint or color for what's to become the overall picture or finished product.

What you want is one person painting the picture, not millions of artist. That would make a horrible picture in the end, but I highly doubt there would even be a finished product.

Originally posted by blood0fheroes
reply to post by Acid_Burn2009

 

Indubitably good sir, I assume it is the same oath in entirety. What I was inferring is that army personnel are the only ones i've had opportunity to ask those questions of, therefore army personnel are the only ones I feel fit to make a generalization of.

Very well! I guess I missed the point of your post...sorry about that.

Id say yes I am an oath keeper but I care more about the people then those superior to me because they can always take care of themselves but the local populace can hardly defend their loved ones.

Again speaking from a Marine stand point, no matter whether they are Marines in my charge or Marines superior to me, they are all cared for equally. Most of them feel the same way. Maybe it is because we are smaller. Maybe because we as Marines feel a certain sense of pride with the title of Marine, I don't know what the difference is but every Marine is another Marine's "back watcher". I have personally seen the sacrifice one Marine will make for another and it still amazes me. I am not attempting to start a "my service is better then yours" bashing thread. If I recall there is already one of those started, so let's keep away from that. We are all brothers in arms whether we agree with what we are doing or not.

On another note and off topic...Monday morning I will be officially moving from inactive reserve to active reserve status. Thinking about school then going for the ol' butter bars.
Not sure though, I like the enlisted side a little better.

....and I just lost my train of thought so I will end this for now.

-Nate

Originally posted by Acid_Burn2009

Originally posted by blood0fheroes
reply to post by Acid_Burn2009

 

Id say yes I am an oath keeper but I care more about the people then those superior to me because they can always take care of themselves but the local populace can hardly defend their loved ones.

Again speaking from a Marine stand point, no matter whether they are Marines in my charge or Marines superior to me, they are all cared for equally. Most of them feel the same way. Maybe it is because we are smaller. Maybe because we as Marines feel a certain sense of pride with the title of Marine, I don't know what the difference is but every Marine is another Marine's "back watcher". I have personally seen the sacrifice one Marine will make for another and it still amazes me. I am not attempting to start a "my service is better then yours" bashing thread. If I recall there is already one of those started, so let's keep away from that. We are all brothers in arms whether we agree with what we are doing or not.

On another note and off topic...Monday morning I will be officially moving from inactive reserve to active reserve status. Thinking about school then going for the ol' butter bars.
Not sure though, I like the enlisted side a little better.

....and I just lost my train of thought so I will end this for now.

-Nate

I agree on the back watching. I think no matter what service you are in you will always watch your battle buddies back because should he fall in battle then you might not have someone to watch your back so it works both ways. Good luck in getting your butter bar and as for me my time in service is almost done as an E-5.

Well, I can't believe I'm about to say this but... Bill O'Reilly brought up a good point when interviewing the founder of the 'Oath Keepers' group Stewart Rhodes;

Rhodes explained this further on The O'Reilly Factor, claiming that some soldiers "don't understand that their oath is first and foremost to the Constitution," and not to the president.

O'Reilly, in disbelief, asked if this means that every soldier "makes up his mind whether the order he's given is Constitutional or not?"

Source

The idea behind this group is the fear of martial law, I suppose the idea isn't too far fetched on these boards but in mainstream America it's a really wild idea. Maybe too wild for O'Reilly.

The oath extends beyond just military personnel. I have personally recited the oath twice in my life time. Both times I have and still held it in the highest regard (anything I must raise my right hand to and basically bind myself and my character to.)

My oath was to myself to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. To abide by it. To hold others to it and to expect my superiors to also be held to it.

Any person retaining a position within the Federal Government I believe recites the oath.