Andrew Joseph Stack III : A Hopeful for the Darwin Awards

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posted on Feb, 19 2010 @ 05:43 PM
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In our day to day existence we see many things as posters on a conspiracy theory website such as ATS, where people do silly, stupid, odd, and often moronic things.

They do this from various stances, positions, perceptions, and even yes, beliefs.

Personally, I see Andrew Joseph Stack III as a coward, a thief, and a terrorist.


Quote from : Wikipedia : 2010 Austin plane crash

The 2010 Austin plane crash occurred on February 18, 2010, when Andrew Joseph Stack III, flying his Piper Cherokee PA-28-236 (Aircraft registration: N2889D) plane, crashed into Building I of the Echelon office complex in Austin, Texas, United States.

Two people were killed (including the pilot), and thirteen injured. An Internal Revenue Service (IRS) field office is located in the seven-story office building along with other state and federal government agencies.

Prior to the crash, Stack had posted a manifesto dated February 18, 2010 to his business website.


The man has zero honor about him, having been a victim of the I.R.S., he could have sought legal recourse, if he did not then he was not very bright, if he did and did not get far, he obviously did not choose to play the game correctly.

I chose to post this thread in the Deconstructing Disinformation & Deflection forum because I see this incident as a direct cause because of the actions of the economy and the act of a desperate individual, who I feel deserves this years Darwin Award.

Unfortunately, it took him taking more than himself out, in order to eliminate himself from the gene pool.

Sorry, I have zero sympathy and zero empathy for the man, I have empathy for his family.

This act alone defines sheer cowardice, and should not ever be seen as an act of heroism.

Andrew Joseph Stack Marvin and John Heemeyer are American Heroes


Why could not the man put a gun in his mouth and pull the trigger and done everyone a favor?

I am not now advocating the act of suicide but I am however stating his actions in directing a plane into a building, no matter the target, are one of the stupidest choices the man could have ever made, because to me, if you want to fight the system, offing yourself in the process only guarantees you lose big time.


Quote from : Wikipedia : 2010 Austin Plane Crash : Crash

The plane departed nearby Georgetown Municipal Airport at 9:40 a.m. Central Standard Time, and, about twenty minutes later, intentionally crashed into Echelon I, a building containing offices for the IRS, at full speed, causing a fire.

The building is located near the intersection of Research Boulevard (U.S. Route 183) and Mopac Expressway (Loop 1).


One has but to look at his targets name, locations, and a double entendre though appears.

Echelon I, the I.R.S., on Research Boulevard, and MOPAC?

Was the man a coward, is it mere coincidence, or was it about the Trans-Texas Corridor?

[edit on 19-2-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]




posted on Feb, 19 2010 @ 05:56 PM
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I don't see him as a coward, I see him as a very brave individual, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, as simple as that.

Besides, it doesn't make sense for this guy to be a 'Darwin award contender' because it wasn't an accident- it was a cold, caculated, purposeful move.

If this guy did kill the IRS agent that was going to ruin his life as the rumor is, then I say, brilliant!

He was going to lose everything, and would have ended up on the streets.

I've heard that all the historical successes against the IRS in a court of law can be counted on one hand, or even one finger alone, so I'm not surprised this guy lost all hope.

You go up against the IRS, you almost always lose.
'



posted on Feb, 19 2010 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by star in a jar
I don't see him as a coward, I see him as a very brave individual, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, as simple as that.


If there is a battle going on, yes, one man's terrorist, is another's freedom fighter.

What this man did was an act of cowardice, alone, for no one else.

He acted alone, or did he, or was he pushed when he was on the edge?

Are You "Right-Wing Fringe", or "Left-Wing Fringe" and How Will They Push You


Originally posted by star in a jar
Besides, it doesn't make sense for this guy to be a 'Darwin award contender' because it wasn't an accident- it was a cold, caculated, purposeful move.


Yes, technically, you are correct, there however needs to be a caveat, for stupidity.


Originally posted by star in a jar
If this guy did kill the IRS agent that was going to ruin his life as the rumor is, then I say, brilliant!


So, cold-blooded murder, and an act of terrorism, is brilliant?


Originally posted by star in a jar
He was going to lose everything, and would have ended up on the streets.


How is his cause different from all the other jackasses on the streets?

I am one of those jackasses.

I am homeless, living out of my car, still working what measely hours are available.


Originally posted by star in a jar
I've heard that all the historical successes against the IRS in a court of law can be counted on one hand, or even one finger alone, so I'm not surprised this guy lost all hope.


Yes, I know the statistics, this however did not win him a damn thing.


Originally posted by star in a jar
You go up against the IRS, you almost always lose.
'


Yes, that is the fabled belief, but one man can make a difference.

Andrew Joseph Stack II however, made the wrong difference, and now we will pay.

This will do nothing but make more and more scrutinization upon everyone else.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Feb, 19 2010 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by star in a jar
 


SO! I take it from your post that if I think you are "ruining" my life, if I have a problem with you, I can just kill you!
Do I have that right?



posted on Feb, 19 2010 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by star in a jar
 


SO! I take it from your post that if I think you are "ruining" my life, if I have a problem with you, I can just kill you!
Do I have that right?


Thank you.

Any man or woman for that matter who takes it upon themselves to take someone else's life, when it is not in the exact reasoning behind physical self-defense, is a cold-blooded, murdering, terrorist.

If your life is being physically threatened, and I mean imminent death, it would be different.

However, Andrew Joseph Stack III, thought out in advance, to climb into a plane.

That's premeditated murder, at the very least, and act of terrorism at the most.



posted on Feb, 19 2010 @ 06:43 PM
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i had a weird dream last nite, part of it was that people were calling him "andrew", eventually referring to him as "andy" - i pointed out that everyone was getting his name wrong, they were certain his first name was andrew, not joseph - can we get his name right at least?



posted on Feb, 19 2010 @ 07:56 PM
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SKL, I have to agree with you again and I see this man as a coward. He is not a hero of mine. A man doesn't skirt from adversity, but takes the trials and tribulation with stride and perseverance. I wonder if his wife and daughter think of him as a hero, or those people who were murdered for doing nothing more than working at that office think of him as a hero? Chances are, they look to him with a disgust and vitriol.

We used to vilify the kamikaze pilots who flew their planes into aircraft craft carriers and battleships in the Second World War, and now those men, women, and children of the Muslim world who march themselves into populated areas to mutilate civilians. What makes what Mr. Stack did any different from the aforementioned examples? If you ask me, a suicide attack is a cheap shot and an act of cowardice. There are ways to fight the good fight without senselessly killing yourself or civilians. All I see with this Stack character, is an embittered man who gave up on his family, because he had a tax dispute. People have tax disputes all the time, and if he was legitimately taken advantage of by the IRS, he could have found an attorney and sought legal recourse, as you say.

He would have been more useful to his wife and child alive than dead. Who knows what trials and tribulations are before them, and they have to go that way alone. Then, they have to comment on what the husband and father did, and face potential ridicule. All he did by this senseless act of violence is shirk his responsibilities as men do all the time, but in this case he killed innocent people. So, yes, he is indeed a coward and undeserving of praise.

However, what alarms me about this story, is the fact that the MSM is on a campaign to throw this issue into a partisan blender. Thus, fueling animosity that is brewing in America at the moment, by turning a lone act by an insane man into a political statement, when in all due reality it was not. I read his manifesto, and not once did I see him making a political statement or highlighting a political affiliation or stance. He just voice his displeasure of government policy, as we all do from time to time. However, to say he was part of the Patriot Movement or a Tea Party follower is stretching the truth and facts.

That is why I think the trend of blatant editorializing by the MSM does more harm than good. They should not be taking a political side in their reporting, because it makes the news nothing more than propaganda. All this talk in the media of what political group affiliation or beliefs of Mr. Stack is immaterial. What is material, is the fact that he was a man who went insane over a tax dispute, not a person intent on making a political statement. So, I say to the media, every crime doesn't involve a political statement, and please report the facts. Stop bolstering the mass hysteria.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Jakes51]



posted on Feb, 19 2010 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by I.C. Weiner
i had a weird dream last nite, part of it was that people were calling him "andrew", eventually referring to him as "andy" - i pointed out that everyone was getting his name wrong, they were certain his first name was andrew, not joseph - can we get his name right at least?



Quote from : Wikipedia :

The 2010 Austin plane crash occurred on February 18, 2010, when Andrew Joseph Stack III,...



Originally posted by Jakes51
SKL, I have to agree with you again and I see this man as a coward. He is not a hero of mine. A man doesn't skirt from adversity, but takes the trials and tribulation with stride and perseverance. I wonder if his wife and daughter think of him as a hero, or those people who were murdered for doing nothing more than working at that office think of him as a hero? Chances are, they look to him with a disgust and vitriol.


Amen, Jakes51, amen.


Originally posted by Jakes51
We used to vilify the kamikaze pilots who flew their planes into aircraft craft carriers and battleships in the Second World War, and now those men, women, and children of the Muslim world who march themselves into populated areas to mutilate civilians. What makes what Mr. Stack did any different from the aforementioned examples? If you ask me, a suicide attack is a cheap shot and an act of cowardice. There are ways to fight the good fight without senselessly killing yourself or civilians. All I see with this Stack character, is an embittered man who gave up on his family, because he had a tax dispute. People have tax disputes all the time, and if he was legitimately taken advantage of by the IRS, he could have found an attorney and sought legal recourse, as you say.


I've never thought of the Kamikaze pilots as anything other than suicidal.

And I am just as much a student of the Eastern mind, as I am of the Western mind.

Suicide is the last ditch effort and recourse of a coward and mentally unstable individual.


Originally posted by Jakes51
He would have been more useful to his wife and child alive than dead. Who knows what trials and tribulations are before them, and they have to go that way alone. Then, they have to comment on what the husband and father did, and face potential ridicule. All he did by this senseless act of violence is shirk his responsibilities as men do all the time, but in this case he killed innocent people. So, yes, he is indeed a coward and undeserving of praise.


It is when we face our most difficult times that we have to hold fast to our lives.


Originally posted by Jakes51
However, what alarms me about this story, is the fact that MSM is on a campaign to throw this issue into a partisan blender. Thus, fueling the animosity already brewing in America at the moment. Turning a lone act by an insane man into a political statement, when in all do reality it was not. I read his manifesto, and not once did I see him making a political statement or highlighting a political affiliation or stance. He just voice his displeasure of government policy as we all do from time to time. However, to say he was part of the Patriot Movement of a Tea Party follower is stretching the truth and facts.


I think that the man was on the edge already and someone possibly gave him a push.


Originally posted by Jakes51
That is why I think the trend of blatant editorializing by the MSM media does more harm than good. They should not be taking a political side in their reporting, because it makes the news nothing more than propaganda. All this talk in the media of what political group affiliation or beliefs of Mr. Stack is immaterial. What is material, is the fact that he was a man who went insane over a tax dispute, not a person intent on making a political statement. So, I say to the media, every crime doesn't involve a political statement, and please report the facts. Stop bolstering the mass hysteria.


I agree with you, Jakes51, his act was the act of a coward, whether pushed or not, whether "terrorism" or not, whether you or anyone agrees with the acts of those heinous barbarians of September 11th or not, or of the "Official Story" or Truther Movement" or not, the acts of taking anyone else's life, without it being a direct action of self-defense, is an act of cowardice, and an act of stupidity.

I have done many things in order to avoid taking other people's lives.

I know self-defense quite well and one of the easiest and safest routes to bypass someone taking your life, and not to take theirs, is to avoid them.

Why could not this man have avoided the I.R.S. via a legal means?

By this I am not stating nor advocating Tax Evasion but merely using the tax law.

The library is full of tax law books if you know how to read and research.

I have to say if the man was capable of flying a plane we have to assume he was literate.

There are as well many other ways to practice legal means to fight the system.

Flying a plane into a building was nothing but an act of stupidity.

It was for a lack of better words an act of pure selfishness and cowardice.

While I may not necessarily agree that the events were told to us correctly about the Government's version of September 11th, I have however, never thought that those men alleged to have been hi-jackers were anything other than cowards, because that is exactly how I see them.

I would never commit suicide no matter how small a scale nor large a scale.

This includes the euphemism for assisted suicide where it was forced.

I have to wonder if the man was pushed into this act of cowardice, or if he chose it.

Either way, to me he was an idiot, because if he chose it, it was cowardice.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Feb, 19 2010 @ 09:22 PM
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People that have fought the IRS in court have seldom won even when they were in the right.

The IRS can use any tricks they want in court even lying.

I have seen the IRS put liens on property or freeze bank accounts BEFORE court dates.
Then when the taxpayer/businesses wins take years before removing the liens or unfreezing the accounts. Its like they think the taxpayers will still pay a unfair tax assessment just to get the liens removed.



posted on Feb, 20 2010 @ 04:10 AM
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Originally posted by ANNED
People that have fought the IRS in court have seldom won even when they were in the right.

The IRS can use any tricks they want in court even lying.

I have seen the IRS put liens on property or freeze bank accounts BEFORE court dates.
Then when the taxpayer/businesses wins take years before removing the liens or unfreezing the accounts. Its like they think the taxpayers will still pay a unfair tax assessment just to get the liens removed.


This excuses his act of lunacy how exactly?

When the Government, and in this case, we're speaking of the Treasury, in the case of the I.R.S. fights dirty in court, you do what it takes in court.

Flying a plane into a building is nothing like that in any way, shape, or form.

There is no excuse for this man other than insanity and that even is stretching.

I guess this is where a show of commitment is just a step above idiocy.



posted on Apr, 21 2010 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


SpartanKing,

Your observation is right on target, the money this fellow was upset about having to pay taxes on came to him in the form of grants from the Federal Government (our money not his savings).

When you are given a grant to do research the amount you do not spend for your cost of doing the work becomes your taxable income.

Apparently he was a brilliant engineer and inventor, it is a shame he did not use the services of financial planers and accountants.





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