Kamikaze Plane Crasher NOT a tea party patriot

Washington Post and Time Magazine are saying the disgruntled kamikaze plane crasher uses rhetoric similar to a tea party protester.

www.prisonplanet.com...

And although he does share similar views when it comes to angst over government bail outs and taxes, there is a dead give away that this guy is NOT a tea partier.
an excerpt from his suicide letter:

"Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was “no taxation without representation”. I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a “crackpot”, traitor and worse."

He is clearly turning away from the principles of America, and thus not representative of the patriot movement.

I have spent the total of years of my adulthood unlearning that crap

What is crap? What is he referring to?

While many of you will say that he is pissed off that the government says one thing and does another, saying they are for justice but really not, there is more to this sentence than just that.

Imagine for a moment Ron Paul saying this type of sentence. He wouldn't. He might call the school system crap, or the government crap, or his education crap, but he would never call the principle of taxation without representation "crap."

It is one thing to not follow a principle, and call someone a hypocrite for not following the principle, it is another to call the principles themselves "crap."

He is saying, it took the total years of his adulthood to unlearn the "crap" they taught him in school. What crap? No taxation without representation? The principles of the founding fathers? What kind of tea partier would call these principles Crap?

Now it is one thing if he said: I've spent much of my adult life realizing that the government does not live up to those principles. That would be fine, and in fact that is what most American patriots believe: they believe the principles are inherently good, it's just the government is inherently bad and can not live up to those ideals.

However, it is pretty clear that when he says he had to unlearn the "crap" what he is saying is that they brainwashed him to believe that the country is one way, when in reality it is the other. Still, the principles, if good, do not have to be unlearned. I personally am angry the government does not live up to the principles it teaches its children, but that does not make the principles crap, it just makes the government crap.

And then he goes on to say that if you stand up for that principal (sic: it is supposed to be principle), you are labeled a crackpot.

What kind of american patriot caves in just because someone calls him a crackpot? Most people would hold onto their principles regardless of what others say about it.

And at the end, what he says about capitalism, that each gives according to their gullibility, and receives according to their greed, this is clearly a Michael Moore, liberal view of capitalism, not a tea party view of capitalism.

He also says that violence is the only answer. This is the view of an extremist, not a peaceful tea party protester.

Whether this suicide note is real or not, he does not seem like a tea partier to me.

edit: I am not trying to marginalize what he did, I think this is a tremendous wake up call for Washington, more so than the American public. I'm just saying that when the media calls him a tea party patriot, like they are already doing, you can read his own suicide letter and see for yourself that he leans more to the left rather than to the right. And either way, he is more of an extremist rather than a centrist.


[edit on 19-2-2010 by ancient_wisdom]

Hmm I think with a combination of his poor writing structure and you misreading it have created confusion.

When I read it, it sounds like he is promoting "no tax without representation" as a Good thing. And that "unlearning that crap" was referenced to the lies we are taught in school that tax is good and we should enjoy paying tons of it.

I actually think that statement makes it clear that he is indeed anti-taxation. I mean, they ruined his life (IRS) and so he ruined their building (airplane).

The Tea Party was originally anti-overtaxation , but after the MSM and TPTB hijacked the movement and turned into a idiot-fest, I bet they focus on other pointless issues and ignore the hard core anti- tax elements.

So yeah, I am saying you 1)misunderstood his statements due to his poor structuring
and 2) might be misusing the label "Tea Party Patriot".

To me a true Original Tea Party Patriot (Libertarian, Constitutionalist, Independant) will not even go near the current "Main Stream Tea Party Hijackers (Republicans)". Because they just can not stand those lying politicians that always ruin these gatherings and indeed the entire movement.

reply to post by muzzleflash


no, he does not say anything about how school teaches him that tax is good and that we should pay tons of it.

"We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was “no taxation without representation"."

he is saying that the school taught him about the principles of America, "no taxation without representation," Remember?" And he is saying that THAT is CRAP!


I'll agree with you that it is worded poorly, but I believe I am interpreting it correctly, and have explained how it should have been written to be more clearly. My point is, this suicide note is not tea party rhetoric, even though the MSM wants to think it is.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by ancient_wisdom]

From my reading, I deduced that he was pro health care and anti capitalism. While it is possible I may have misunderstood what I read, I don't think he was any particular politcal part follower. It looked like he was all over the place politically speaking.

reply to post by darkelf


yet, the MSM is saying he is a tea partier, whereas he is more like a leftist. I don't care for the left/right paradigm, and don't want to view people in either way, but if the MSM is going to call this guy a tea partier, they might as well look at the evidence that suggests he could also be an anti-capitalist leftist. Useless labels aside, I stand by my assertion that this guy is not a libertarian tea partier. Maybe he is a Glenn Beck/Sarah Palin neo con tea partier, but that is a different issue.

All one really needs to do is read his so called "capitalist creed"

From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

That is not a tea party creed, since they would know the difference between capitalism and crony capitalism.

Glenn Beck was just one assuring all that this guy was nuts. Like we all dont know he went nuts?

Thanks Glenn Ill call mom
now and tell her to stop patroling around the farm!

I mean ma and pa thought this was it that this was the big one!

I think this guy just got caught with his pants down, hiding taxable income, and then set about to justify all the steps he took to cover his behind. Nothing noble about him, in my opinion. But on the other hand, the guy who was nearby with his glass truck, who put his ladder up to a burning building and went in and rescued people, now THERE is a hero!

Does it take a tea party patriot to be so mad at the IRS he is ready to draw blood? Does it take a madman? A democrat? A republican? A Ron Paul follower? Ed and Elaine Brown?

Nope. It just takes someone with the guts enough to give his LIFE to make the serious point that the IRS is out of control. So out of control, they ruined one life too many. They are cold, robotic government repo men and women who have heard it all before.

Joe Stack was a man with balls. He remembered what this country was founded upon, and the hopeless point we have reached as a nation. Look at what that last resigning Senator said- it's just confirmation that we are indeed at such a point. This isn't government for the people anymore. This is tyranny by special interest. And the IRS has a special interest: In your money. Not in your comfort, not in your well being. Not in your health. In your money.

Money which is then used for "necessary wars" sold to us as fighting terrorism that only exists because special interests bring it upon us.

Joe Stack. We will not forget you, brave man.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Does it take a tea party patriot to be so mad at the IRS he is ready to draw blood? Does it take a madman? A democrat? A republican? A Ron Paul follower? Ed and Elaine Brown?

Nope. It just takes someone with the guts enough to give his LIFE to make the serious point that the IRS is out of control. So out of control, they ruined one life too many. They are cold, robotic government repo men and women who have heard it all before.

Joe Stack was a man with balls. He remembered what this country was founded upon, and the hopeless point we have reached as a nation. Look at what that last resigning Senator said- it's just confirmation that we are indeed at such a point. This isn't government for the people anymore. This is tyranny by special interest. And the IRS has a special interest: In your money. Not in your comfort, not in your well being. Not in your health. In your money.

Money which is then used for "necessary wars" sold to us as fighting terrorism that only exists because special interests bring it upon us.

Joe Stack. We will not forget you, brave man.

I have no love for the IRS. As an American living in Canada, I am sick and tired of having to keep filing tax forms with them every year, even though I have no U.S. income. But THIS jerk is no hero. He was hiding income, got caught, and paid the consequences. Then, in an attempt to make his life be about something, he flew his plane into a building, attempting to kill people. A PITIFUL excuse for a man. Don't make him into something he is not. Heroes give sacrificially. He was trying to make a heroic story out of a life poorly lived.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Joe Stack. We will not forget you, brave man.

Are you kidding me??? The guy steals a plane and drives it foll-bore into an occupied building to make a statement and you call him a "brave man" and make him out to be some sort of hero? Are you kidding me??? :shk:

How is this any different than what the "terrorists" did on 9/11? And you're praising him for it???

As to the topic of the thread, I agree with muzzleflash. See the full text of his "suicide note" HERE

I don't care if he's a tea partier or not. It doesn't matter. He was a nut case. Not for what he thought or his political views, but because he took it to the EXTREME. He was an extremist.

I may post more after reading the whole note, not just a paragraph that Prison Planet wants me to read...

reply to post by novacs4me


This, from his "rant" pretty much sums it up:

Ironically, after what they had done the Government came to the aid of the airlines with billions of our tax dollars … as usual they left me to rot and die while they bailed out their rich, incompetent cronies WITH MY MONEY!

www.oliverwillis.com...

Alex Jones is trying to say this is another false flag operation, but there is no one in government who has the depth, and years worth of IRS oppression, to even be able to write this document. I think this guy was for real. A man who decided to ruin some lives that had ruined his. And there are some that would say that if you work for the IRS, you are fair game.

Duh!

Everybody knows teabaggers are all talk and no action.

All hat, no cattle.

All sizzle, no steak.

Originally posted by ancient_wisdom
Still, the principles, if good, do not have to be unlearned.

No, but the idea that this is what our country stands for DOES have to be unlearned. The idea that the government will not tax us without representing us DOES have to be unlearned. That's the CRAP. That our country actually operates according to the Constitution.

I'm not saying he was a tea partier. As I said, it matters not to me. But if you're listening to Alex Jones and interpreting Stack's manifesto as Jones does, you're fooling yourself. Joe Stack hated being taxed, feeling that he wasn't represented. A lot of us feel that way. You don't have to be a tea partier to feel that way.

Joe Stack didn't know how to take responsibility for his own screw ups throughout his life. And like the coward that he was, he took the easy way out. It doesn't matter what party he associated with. He was an idiot and a terrorist.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Are you kidding me??? The guy steals a plane and drives it foll-bore into an occupied building to make a statement and you call him a "brave man" and make him out to be some sort of hero? Are you kidding me??? :shk:

I have to somewhat disagree. We always balk at people for "talking the talk" but never following through. We say how we want people to "get angry" and "fight for justice" in an era where riot police confront any attempted peaceful protest and seriously making the government angry will leave you on a terror watch list, audited by the IRS, or dead. Personally, I would never do such a thing. Me living is enough revenge for everyone else.

How is this any different than what the "terrorists" did on 9/11? And you're praising him for it???

They didn't. Therefore it's not necessarily relevant.

I don't care if he's a tea partier or not. It doesn't matter.

You're right. By this point we should all be so furious that we react. Yet we strum guitars playing Kumbaya and hope that by purchasing the same product at a store that isn't WalMart that we'll be "sticking it to the man."

He was a nut case. Not for what he thought or his political views, but because he took it to the EXTREME. He was an extremist.

Candlelight vigils will not save this country. People are getting tired of armchair patriots, and while I would not do what this person did ever, I will not shed a single tear.

If that makes me the worst person on the planet, so be it. At least I will be the worst honest person on the planet.

Originally posted by niteboy82
I have to somewhat disagree. We always balk at people for "talking the talk" but never following through.

I've spent half the day in disbelief that so many would advocate violence against innocent people to get their point across. Now that you have joined in, I can honestly say that I'm deeply disillusioned and disappointed...

I have never respected people "talking the talk" of violence. I'm saddened to see that the worship of violence and terrorism in this country is being accepted as an honorable way to "walk the walk".

They didn't. Therefore it's not necessarily relevant.

SOMEONE flew those planes into those buildings. I'm not sure who it was, but whomever it was, THEY are the terrorists. Even if they were white Christians in business suits. This guy is no different.

You're right. By this point we should all be so furious that we react. Yet we strum guitars playing Kumbaya and hope that by purchasing the same product at a store that isn't WalMart that we'll be "sticking it to the man."

There's a middle ground between strumming guitars at candlelight vigils and killing innocent people.

I can't believe you said this...

He's not a tea partier, he's not a communist, or a socialist. He's a guy that saw the system for what it is, a guy who saw a country where rich rule in untouchable fashion over the poor, where propaganda runs rampant amongst all major media outlets and the IRS can actually commit financial terrorism against American citizens through a merciless draconian income tax system that destroys the lives of every day americans.

He is anti-big brother, anti-greed and corruption, and the # they put him through broke him.

This is a nonpartisan issue and it should be discussed openly without jumping to terrorist and party labels.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Joe Stack. We will not forget you, brave man.

I am pritty sure the 9/11 attackers will never be forgotten to many of their fundementalist supporters in the middle east. Im sure the suicide bombers will never be forgotten by their fringe supporters. I am pritty sure the attacks of London in 2005 will never forget the "brave" efforts those terrorists took to kill every last innocent victim.

You are no different to the supporters of the 9/11 attacks. You are no different to the supporters of the suicide bombers. You and your kind are one in the same. Violence is your motto, it is your satisfaction, and thats the only way you feel to push your political message down everybodies throats.

I heard you complain last year about the coming martial law under the president where people will be killed if they do not choose to obey a political opinion. It seems like the same stunt you are supporting now does no different. Threatens lives to make a political point.

You are from the same yolk. Although I am sure that you like the others would argue otherwise.

And if you support the men in our airforce who drop bombs on mosques and neighborhoods and wedding parties, killing thousands of innocents in order to target extremists.... killing for honor and freedom, the greater good, and all the propaganda they force into your head... if you support our military, then you, sir, by your own logic, are no different than the people who support the 9/11 attacks.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by spiritualzombie]

Originally posted by spiritualzombie
And if you support the men in our airforce who drop bombs on mosques and neighborhoods and wedding parties, killing thousands of innocents in order to target extremists....

I dont support that. I never supported the Iraq war. I support the hunt for those responsible over 9/11 and no such else, so please dont try to judge me for I never made any such claim.