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DNA evidence of ET? part 2

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posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:44 AM
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reply to post by AnthraAndromda
 


read my post again, I added to it.

I'm not arguing with you, but your expectations on what I have to do for you is unbelievable. I've done more than I should have already.

If your story were sound, gapless and without holes, I would go above and beyond what I have; but what you've provided so far, along with your replies suggests to me that it's not worth my time.

To put it bluntly, I don't believe you (not being offensive, your story so far just doesn't make sense, it doesn't gel together with all the information thats been given).
edit on 20-8-2012 by acidsweep because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by AnthraAndromda


Mutation Rate: The rate at which a genetic marker mutates or changes over time. The number of mutations per hundreds of generations expressed as a decimal value or a percentage. For example: A typical mutation rate quoted in early (circa 2001/2002) Y chromosome STR (Y-STR) TMRCA calculations and analysis is one per 500 generations (transmission events).

Source


Pardon? I dont know who Charles F. Kerchner, Jr, a quick google search tells me hes an Ex-US Army commander US Navy Reserve? and has an interest in Genealogy. No offence I'd rather take what Jen says, as she has studied human genetics for quite some time and is holds a PhD in Genetics - Source, and the studies in question have been peer-reviewed. But the population of ATS can make their descision Ex US Army Reserve Commander vs a PhD in Genetics.



Edit 1 - Whoops to stay on topic, i have expressed my opinion on your genetics, and advised that the following in summary:

The subject is:
Species - Homo-Sapien
Gender - Male
Origin - Euroasian, 99% (100% according to my calculations, however i wont commit to that) probability. Now confirmed using Whit Athey's work

Rather general, and not entirely supported by all the data. And, the data is trying to be somewhat more specific. What are the specific reasons yu do not use all the data


It is quite general, and takes into account the Allele sets that are included in the "origin" search.

Origin search Allele sets (this is taken from your website, so to the newcomers, this is the STR-Y autosomal information):

Y – STR Markers

DYS456 - 16
DYS389I - 13 (AKA : DYS389-1)
DYS390 - 24
DYS389II - 31 (AKA: DYS389-2)
DYS458 - 17
DYS19- 14
DYS385 - 11, 14 (AKA DYS385a & DYS385b)
DYS393 - 13
DYS391 - 11
DYS439 - 12
DYS635 - 23
DYS392 - 13
YGATAH4 - 12
DYS437 - 15
DYS438 - 12
DYS448 - 19

These are all you or i need to generate origin (Listed above).

D3S1358-14--18
TH01--7-
D21S11-28--30
D18S51-17--22
Penta E-15--16
D5S818--12-
D13S317-8--11
D7S820--11-
D16S539--12-
CSF1PO-10--12
Penta D-11--12
Amelogenin-Male (XY)
vWA--18-
D8S1179-12--14
TPOX-9--11
FGA-20--25

Gives gender and other markers used only in personal identification (Including species). To use the full string would be trying to search through the entire population looking for a single person, which in this instance would be the subject the DNA was taken from (assuming it is you of course, to which i am!). So I have been using the full genetic information to come to my conclusions.

Hope this explains it all if not, please by all means google/ask questions! I encourage it.
edit on 20-8-2012 by Spruk because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-8-2012 by Spruk because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by HomerinNC

I thought you were very well off, you can't afford these tests that would prove your claim 100%?
If it were me, I'd take EVERYTHING I had to prove my claim and prove I am who I say I am


No, unfortunately, I'm not well off. I had developed my "golden" application, It was a rather nice piece of code. Another party tried to steal it. When all the dust was setteled, I had solid coytights, but no viable product. My technology died in the process, and I got nothing except for the satification of seeing the other party go out of business. I have another now, I'm being very careful with the coyrights so there is no repete perforance. It is still in development.



Also, the ship is hovering over Texas in space, right?
Do you have the coordinates, so those with a telescope can see it?


N, I don't have actualcoordinates. However, there shuld be at least one of the six starshis here arked 100,000km directly above Dallas, Tx. Although, even with a good telescpe it may not look like anything more than "space junk"



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:56 AM
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reply to post by AnthraAndromda
 


It would look like pretty big piece of space junk right?



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:04 AM
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Well, with that said, I can assume one of the following conclusions is true:

PREMISS #1: AnthraAndromd claims to have ET / Alien DNA
PREMISS #2: No known samples of ET / Alien DNA exists in any known database.
PREMISS #3: A Forensic database of criminal / forensic samples was used to compare which equals only 1.98% of the population of Earth, not including the general population of 7 Billion.

CONCLUSION: ARGUMENT IS INVALID UNTIL 100% OF THE POPULATION OF 7 BILLION IS COMPARED AND EITHER EXCLUDED OR INCLUDED.

This is a valid argument as opposed to AnthraAndromd's conclusion being:

CONCLUSION: AnthraAndromd is 100% CONCLUSIVELY EXCLUDED OR INCLUDED OF HAVING GENETIC MARKERS AS ANY of the 7 Billion members of Earth's population.

You cannot make this conclusion, it's a fallacy in logic to presume or assume. Your presumtion / assumption is fallacious in respect that it is a "mystical / mysterious fiction" which also is a red-herring.




A red herring is a clue which is intentionally or unintentionally misleading or distracting from the actual issue.[1] The term is mostly used to claim that the argument of another person is not relevant to the issue being discussed. In mystery fiction, a clue or lead that turns out not to be relevant to the solution of the mystery would also be a red herring.


Wikipedia - Red Herring - Link

With this said, or if you can refute this logically, you sir...

ARE DEBUNKED!




posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by HomerinNC
reply to post by AnthraAndromda
 


It would look like pretty big piece of space junk right?


Maybe, three of the ships are triangles 1k by 1km , the other three are, wel at first I thought of the as "banjos"; they are 2.5k (long by 2km (wide). They are colored a dark gray, and have rather strange relflective properties.

I've never seen them through a telescope, only up close, usually from the inside.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:11 AM
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Originally posted by trekwebmaster
PREMISS #3: A Forensic database of criminal / forensic samples was used to compare which equals only


You have completely mischaracterized YHRD. You did not check it out and instead did what most everyone does; rely on someone else to get your information for you, and not even check to see if its accurate.

This is a big fail for you, kind of invalidates everything you've said.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:35 AM
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reply to post by AnthraAndromda
 


This comes from their own website:

YHRD (formerly Y-STR)

yhrd.org...

This is an anonymous database developed for the forensic community - not for genealogists - associated with the Institute of Legal Medicine, Charité - Universitary Medicine Berlin. However, you may be interested in entering your Y results to see if you have a rare or common (many matches) haplotype.

The first database was known as the Y-STR Haplotype Reference Database (Y-STR). In about March 2004, that database was "frozen" and new data added to the Y Chromosome Haplotype Reference Database (YHRD). The original Y-STR (ystr.org) database had sections with separate links for Europe, USA, and Asia. They were mentioned frequently on other web sites (often with slightly different URLs) but these links no longer exist.

===============

Source: freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com...

Exactly which database are you using?

This one? Y-STR Haplotype Reference Database (Y-STR)

or this one? Y Chromosome Haplotype Reference Database (YHRD)

The first one is frozen since 2004, but you've mentioned BOTH databases, or only abbreviations with no sourcing as to check for ourselves. In science do not take a person's word for it, you'll have to prove it in your Thesis, you have not done this.




Second: I'm truly happy you went to Yhrd.org and found out what their database is all about. You do realize, I hope, that you're completely wrong. YHRD is perhaps the most complete Y-DNA database on-world. It is intended as a respository for Y-DNA data, so it is very complete. You should check out the real thing.

And of course I did enter my numbers; no matches, in over 90,000 records.


I have made an error in my calculation. Instead of 90,000 I put in 900,000 which gave a 1.98% of the 7 Billion population of Earth.

In reality, with correction of the error, and by your own admittance in the quote above, you have compared your DNA against 1.2857142857142857142857142857143e-5 which is five zeroes in front of the "1" which is:

.0000012857% of the population, which effectively is zero and raises the percent you'll need to test at over 99.99997 approx.

You haven't tested anything close to the REQUIRED % of the population to even be considered statistically valid. YOU'RE WASTING TIME and my original assertion that your conclusion is invalid stands.

YOU''RE STILL DEBUNKED!

Note: Don't even think of only testing against 10 or 20 percent, because the nature of the claim you are making requires you to rule-out every human being on this planet to make the claim that you are an ET valid. There's no short-cut in that assumption...so don't give me that line of bs.
edit on 20-8-2012 by trekwebmaster because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by AnthraAndromda
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


You don't point out anything, and most of yor mutterings are off topic. Thus, I decide your only urpose here is to disrupt this thread with your "comments"(?), and supress truth.. Your assessments of my "falicies" are the observations of a blindman, and thus hold no value.

So please stop trolling, and tell your supervisor it won't work.



My "mutterings" hey?


Yes of course. clearly my "mutterings" which have called you to account for your claims are off topic. I can only thank my fellow ATS members who have joined me here to expose you, and I take no credit myself. I absolutely seek to "disrupt your threads" because they are full of unsubstantiated and completely ridiculous claims. You see, Anthra, the burden of proof is not on me. It is on you.

You accuse me of seeking to "supress truth"? Really? On what grounds? The fact I've required of you what any reasonable modern "terrestrial" would? i.e: proof of your claims?

With every post you boast more and more, and produce more and more evidence to back up Zeta's claims. You will, eventually, find yourself in a corner with a light shining on your face. I will be here when that happens, whether you like it or not.
edit on 20-8-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 08:50 AM
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Well here we are again.

Anthra has been shown the errors in his calculations, yet lashes with accusations of people being unable to understand or being closed minded, or not doing research, when he certainly has no idea how much any of us really have done. It's been shown that the DNA database lies about how much of the population they actually catalog, but refuses to listen, insisting that his facts are superior to anyone elses..

You know what that means Anthra? Really? I won't state it as you get mad anytime anyone points it out, but you really need to go back and re-examine your results.. All of them, and don't fall back on "well the collective consciousness and Bible Codes" GO TO A DOCTOR THAT SPECIALIZES ask them to run these 12 month tests to confirm it.. If you don't have the money, Medicaid will pay for it as valid research into "genetic anomalies" (just found that out this morning) no more excuses, no more berating people, just do it.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 08:50 AM
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Double post removed
edit on 20-8-2012 by vkey08 because: Double post removed



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by trekwebmaster
 


Here is your major problem.:


YOU''RE STILL DEBUNKED!



Are you deliberately trying to obfuscate reality? It could appear so.

And if you want to work the probability angle; you have already lost. Not from the DNA, but from other evidence I can show a probability of better than .9999 that I not Terrestrial.

The small number of Y-DNA records in the database has a very high probability of covering virtually all of the Terrestrial male population. You must remember; your Y-DNA, is identical to your father's, grandfather's, going back up to 6000 years. And then there is your brothers, same Y-DNA, all of your male children; yep same Y-DNA.

Contrary to what some may have tried to say; Y-DNA is a slow mutating segment. The current estiates is on the order of 6000 - 10,000 years.

I don't know man, maybe it's just me; but it seems that IF someone enters a wee study with an open mind, as opposed to being on a mission to debunk; we all could have a learning expirence. I think it has something to do with "objectivity". Perhaps we should talk when you get some (objectivity).



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by vkey08
Well here we are again.

Anthra has been shown the errors in his calculations, yet lashes with accusations of people being unable to understand or being closed minded, or not doing research, when he certainly has no idea how much any of us really have done. It's been shown that the DNA database lies about how much of the population they actually catalog, but refuses to listen, insisting that his facts are superior to anyone elses..


You have shown no such thing! You have not shown anywhere where my "calculations" are wrong, and the same goes for my logic. And, Yes; I do tend to "lash out", mostly because I know for an absolute fact; you can do better. But, you never even try(sigh).

Yes, I do know "how much" you have done. You make it so obvious my Wolves can tell.

No, the data base doesn't lie, you have misinterpreted. Just how many different Y-DNA strings do you think there are? 7billion? That would be wrong my orders of magnitude.

Y-DNA mutates slowly; slow enough, that I can show you when the Sirian colonies fell, and they began to integrate with the Terrestrial population. It is a genetic event so obvious, yet you seem to deny the probability.



You know what that means Anthra? Really? I won't state it as you get mad anytime anyone points it out, but you really need to go back and re-examine your results.. All of them, and don't fall back on "well the collective consciousness and Bible Codes" GO TO A DOCTOR THAT SPECIALIZES ask them to run these 12 month tests to confirm it.. If you don't have the money, Medicaid will pay for it as valid research into "genetic anomalies" (just found that out this morning) no more excuses, no more berating people, just do it.


Well in as much as I a allowing discussion of that evidence as well, you are allowed to comment on "collective consciousness". And, just "why" should I not use valid data?

Okay, is that MedicAid, or MediCare? Makes a huge difference. Which "tests" were those again?

And, this is important; "Why should I give you new data to not understand?"

I'll stop "berating" people right after they stop berating me. You don't like it much when I use the same on you that you have done to me; do you? So why do you start? You should stop complaining about me and look at yourself.

If you were to do your due dilligence without your preconceived ideas; you might actually learn something.

Your greatest "talent" is innovation, but when it comes to this area; you throw all true science and innovation right out the window, and become more bull headed than a real Bull.

Our resident "genetics expert" stated that my Y haplogroup is "R1B". I'm wondering how many items in the dataset were thrown out to make that match? There is not a database on-world that will make that match using all of the data. And, as soon as you remove a single item from the dataset, you fail. You fail in your point, you fail in your research.

Many of you seem to think I haven't done my due dilligence; you are wrong, and you actually have no idea what I've done. Although you could get an indicator, if you would only do your own (due dilligence). But you show, through small things really, that you haven't done quite enough.

So we are left with what we have. An argument where one side has already lost, and the other wondering when the Terrestrials will wake up.

What I find "rich"; Y'all taking my story to a "researcher", and having your "opinion" verified. The problem is; you are incapable of relating the "story" accurately enough for any scientist to come to any kind of lgical conclusion. If you came to me, as an independant researcher, and related the examples you have left in here; I would likely say the same. But, you see; even here you don't have the details and story correct. So anything you get from a third party, is infact; useless and irrelevant.
edit on 20-8-2012 by AnthraAndromda because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by AnthraAndromda
reply to post by trekwebmaster
 


Here is your major problem.:


YOU''RE STILL DEBUNKED!



Are you deliberately trying to obfuscate reality? It could appear so.

And if you want to work the probability angle; you have already lost. Not from the DNA, but from other evidence I can show a probability of better than .9999 that I not Terrestrial.

The small number of Y-DNA records in the database has a very high probability of covering virtually all of the Terrestrial male population. You must remember; your Y-DNA, is identical to your father's, grandfather's, going back up to 6000 years. And then there is your brothers, same Y-DNA, all of your male children; yep same Y-DNA.

Contrary to what some may have tried to say; Y-DNA is a slow mutating segment. The current estiates is on the order of 6000 - 10,000 years.

I don't know man, maybe it's just me; but it seems that IF someone enters a wee study with an open mind, as opposed to being on a mission to debunk; we all could have a learning expirence. I think it has something to do with "objectivity". Perhaps we should talk when you get some (objectivity).



Would love to see this other "evidence" that has a 99.99% chance of proving you're an alien.

So far all we've seen is a picture of a ship that was done in a 3D program like Blender or 3ds Max, which anyone can make (especially with Blender since it's open source and free).

A picture from SOHO.

Incomplete DNA.

And pretty much just your word that you are one.

That your mother is on a large 1km x 1km triangle ship, maintaining a geosychronous orbit above Texas at a distance of about 100,000 km. Must be cloaked, eh? An object that large at only 100k km out would be very easy for amateur astronomers to spot, even with telescopes as small as 3 inches, considering the size of some NEOs that are even smaller.....and staying stationary like that? Wow, THAT would be very visible because at 100k out like that, it would be visible to the whole western hemisphere.......

People have asked for other evidence, like pictures of the Earth from that space ship, or of some alien friend. But you always seem to have an excuse or claim that it wouldn't do any good. Or that you can't afford to have all of your DNA checked out........

So now you've claimed that other evidence besides your DNA makes your existence as a extraterrestrial chances as high as 99.99%

That's an extraordinary claim. So can we see this extraordinary evidence that proves this?
edit on 20-8-2012 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by AnthraAndromda
 


AnthraAndromd,

But you're missing the point. You're not doing a "wee" study. This study is HUGE. Do you realize exactly how many variables you're comparing against? I don't think you do. And you keep biasing the study when new information or correlation is presented.

Such as:

Among humans, some men have two Xs and a Y ("XXY", see Klinefelter's syndrome), or one X and two Ys (see XYY syndrome), and some women have three Xs or a single X instead of a double X ("X0", see Turner syndrome). There are other exceptions in which SRY is damaged (leading to an XY female), or copied to the X (leading to an XX male). For related phenomena see Androgen insensitivity syndrome and Intersex.

Are you an XYY or XX male? You haven't ruled that out.

High mutation rate:

The human Y chromosome is particularly exposed to high mutation rates due to the environment in which it is housed. The Y chromosome is passed exclusively through sperm, which undergo multiple cell divisions during gametogenesis. Each cellular division provides further opportunity to accumulate base pair mutations. Additionally, sperm are stored in the highly oxidative environment of the testis, which encourages further mutation. These two conditions combined put the Y chromosome at a risk of mutation 4.8 times greater than the rest of the genome.

Have you ruled the above out?

A clear, quantitative indication of this inefficiency is the entropy rate of the Y chromosome. Whereas all other chromosomes in the human genome have entropy rates of 1.5–1.9 bits per nucleotide (compared to the theoretical maximum of exactly 2 for no redundancy), the Y chromosome's entropy rate is only 0.84.[14] This means the Y chromosome has a much lower information content relative to its overall length; it is more redundant.

Have you even considered the above? Perhaps the information encoded and supposed to be on the Y is on the X? It happens.

And it goes like this:

The human Y chromosome is unable to recombine with the X chromosome, except for small pieces of pseudoautosomal regions at the telomeres (which comprise about 5% of the chromosome's length). These regions are relics of ancient homology between the X and Y chromosomes. The bulk of the Y chromosome which does not recombine is called the "NRY" or non-recombining region of the Y chromosome.[28] It is the SNPs (single-nucleotide polymorphism) in this region which are used for tracing direct paternal ancestral lines.

And also illustrates the polymorphism I pointed-out to you in an earlier post.

Do you understand?

Just because it is not present on an Y chromosome does NOT mean it cannot be present on the X; but you won't consider this due to bias, that makes your conclusion invalid until you test it.

If you wan to continue this claim you are an ET, for the inter-rim, you need to insert the word "ALLEGED" or "ALLEGE" which indicates your conclusion is not complete or solidly proved, otherwise, you're just making a claim based on a fallacy, as "Mystical / Mysterious Fiction" which the bias you keep insisting on keeping toward this argument a "Red Herring." You're logic is flawed unless you admit it might or might not be the case and remove any bias. Perhaps you could adopt a contrast and comparison study in the form of where both conclusions of "Being and ET" and "Being Conclusively Terran" would exist and explore variations in both.

Man, you are way over your head and being a programmer, you realize that if you type random letters over and over and try to encode them into a programming language, you are going to get nothing but data.

Data which is not arranged, formatted, presented in a way to be understood is NOT information.

And all you have given us is data, with a single initiation command executing a loop which repeats indefinitely with no STOP command. And that is garbage-in and garbage-out.

I'm not trying to debunk you for the sake of debunking you. I'm reproving and proofing but the bias in perspective to certain pertinent information is yours.
edit on 20-8-2012 by trekwebmaster because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-8-2012 by trekwebmaster because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by eriktheawful
Would love to see this other "evidence" that has a 99.99% chance of proving you're an alien.

So far all we've seen is a picture of a ship that was done in a 3D program like Blender or 3ds Max, which anyone can make (especially with Blender since it's open source and free).


I don't use either of those.



A picture from SOHO.


Yes, images from SOHO. That have a high probability of being Andromedan hardware.



Incomplete DNA.


Again, yes; incomplete. I have little motivation t prove something to yu that I already have ore than enough "proof" for. The fact that you won't accept all of the evidence is not my short fall.



And pretty much just your word that you are one.


You have a time honored sentient tradition you could be using, yet you refuse. You have much ore than my "word"; you have the strong abilities of a sentient mind and brain, yet you do not avail yourselves of its abilities.



That your mother is on a large 1km x 1km triangle ship, maintaining a geosychronous orbit above Texas at a distance of about 100,000 km. Must be cloaked, eh? An object that large at only 100k km out would be very easy for amateur astronomers to spot, even with telescopes as small as 3 inches, considering the size of some NEOs that are even smaller.....and staying stationary like that? Wow, THAT would be very visible because at 100k out like that, it would be visible to the whole western hemisphere.......


Firstly, we are not in a geosychronous orbit, we are not in any orbit. The position of any Andromedan asset is fixed by navigation and active "station keeping". Our ships are not cloaked, they are constructed in a manner to allow for natural camouflage.

Further with the best of small telescpe you wuld have a difficult noticing any differences between our hardware and your own "space junk". And, at 60,000mi a ship that is 0.6 miles inlength wold be very difficult to see with little to no reflection of your Suns light.



People have asked for other evidence, like pictures of the Earth from that space ship, or of some alien friend. But you always seem to have an excuse or claim that it wouldn't do any good. Or that you can't afford to have all of your DNA checked out........


You have no idea how difficult it can be to get anything on-world. Your governments have rather strict rules, that, for security and safty reasons we choose not to violate. Further, bringing back such "evidence" is considered "an act of War" by your governments. Something they keep reminding us of.



So now you've claimed that other evidence besides your DNA makes your existence as a extraterrestrial chances as high as 99.99%

That's an extraordinary claim. So can we see this extraordinary evidence that proves this?


Any time you like; its all on my website.

Ever hear of "Bayesian inference"? You should check it out. Cool stuff.
edit on 20-8-2012 by AnthraAndromda because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by trekwebmaster
 




Note: Don't even think of only testing against 10 or 20 percent, because the nature of the claim you are making requires you to rule-out every human being on this planet to make the claim that you are an ET valid. There's no short-cut in that assumption...so don't give me that line of bs.


And with this wee note; you make DNA data valueless, even in your own society. I guess you will have to release all the criminals convicted via DNA. It hasn't been proven it was them, therefore "mistrial".

Quit trying to DEBUNK; start trying to learn.

ETA: by the way, the math you used . . . its wrong. You have misclaculated.
edit on 20-8-2012 by AnthraAndromda because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by AnthraAndromda
Well in as much as I a allowing discussion of that evidence as well, you are allowed to comment on "collective consciousness".
Excellent. I will state emphatically that you have very limited knowledge of such a thing. You failed to demonstrate any such knowledge in your incessant drivel.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 






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