Regarding the pilot that crashed his plane in Austin...

Originally posted by Nyrossius Maxim
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Hopefully someone else points this out as well, but just to be certain: the IRS works for the Federal Reserve, not our government.

How do you think our tax system came into place? Did the federal reserve introduce the tax system? Or was it congress that ammended and added it in? Where do our tax cuts come from? Who holds authority to change the tax system?

Its just amazing how misdirected you folks are. Let alone this entire tax argument, the target here is towards a body that is controlled and governed by congress. When you strike the puppet, you miss the puppeteer.

This guy knew full well that lives were at risk but he was selfish and his supporters here are just as selfish. They are incapable of managing themselves is a wise and capable manner and put their anger first upon everything else because they feel thats the only way. They, folks like you here had for years argued the coming martial law and the coming massacre of the american people through the form of false flags, and yet who sits on the side of violence killing the innocent for the sake of ideology?

Its no wonder the rest of the country let alone world view these kinds of people as crackpots. We can agree the actions of our governments are unacceptable, but the actions of this individual and those who promote it are no different. You are no different. You are only sending a message of violence and nothing more.

Whilst I don't condone violent acts towards others, I for one applaud this mans action, he has caused others to open their eyes and start reading more in to all of this. How many people read his manifesto before it was taken down? how many people who work in that building will hear why he did it? How many papers will it be in ? how many news articles will there be?

Many american people are nieve and plain uninformed, hopefully this will help them a little to see beyond the end of their noses.

Make no mistake people, America is falling to its knees, every day of every week, ordinary citizens are effected by the pure greed of the country. Everybody is queuing up to take a chunk and soon, once all the financial institutions move over to the east and leave the sinking ship, soon the american citizens are going to be left in a quandry.

Unfortunately they will only have themselves to blame,

Originally posted by franspeakfree
Whilst I don't condone violent acts towards others, I for one applaud this mans action,

You dont condone violent acts towards others, yet you applaud this mans violent act towards others. How did you come to completely contradict yourself in one sentence? What is it?

How many people read his manifesto

I read his manifesto and found myself agreeing with him on many things. Infact I found him rather close to my own views. The most interesting part of his message was his criticism of both capitalism and communism. He also rallied against Bush. While I related to this man, his actions were in my opinion unacceptable. What he did was self centered, what he did disregarded the innocent lives of people in their that he himself did not know personally know, that most folks here do not know and cannot judge.

His turn to violence, his turn to risking the lives of those workers, of non-workers in there probably protesting in the same manner, but by non-vilent means, is evident of his selfishness. He is no different from the government he and his supporters rally against.

I hear the whiners here go on about the government messing with their lives. But the idea of taking the life of others for a political achievement is to be celebrated? No no, you people are dead confused.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


this country built on the deaths of thousands and thousands of dead indians/

Anyone claiming this guy as a martyr is no friend of ATS and, honestly, does not deserve to be associated to us. You are extremely naive to believe domestic terrorism is a justified reason to exercise your political frustrations.

Infowars.com is even worse, paranoid Christian extremists praying for this man and declaring him an "American hero"

It's truly sick that conspiracy theorists are now justifying terrorism. What is even more tragic, in the words of other members, his manifesto could easily be seen as a post on ATS. Members who wrote identical beliefs and calling for violence against the federal government.

To borrow the famous phrase, 9/11 did change everything. This pathetic and immature "us verses them mentality" has achieved nothing and created A LOT of damage. Reports suggest other parts of his blog were about 9/11. Truthers will be linked to this, no doubt. Just like 9/11, most conspiracy theorists ignored the victims and went on the "truth crusade"-coming up with the most ridiculous ideas and never stopping to think about the innocent lives lost.

Don't believe me? read through this thread-some members wanted more IRS employees dead.

I make no apology for my hostile response, the DHS and FBI can deal with some of you. I officially wash my hands of this vile minority. You're an insult.

First, I want to show those of you who are backpedaling a poem. I'm sure you have read it before.

First They Came

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Food for thought the next time you want to say, "Violence isn't the answer! EVER!"

Someone already quoted Thomas Jefferson, but allow me to do it again:

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

My thoughts are jumbled after reading 17 pages of back and forth. Let me be clear:

I APPLAUD JOE STACK

The reason is simple. He made a move. People spend countless hours on ATS talking about how a revolution is needed. Nothing will change without force, etc. And then when Mr. Stack decided enough is enough and took action, many of you are suddenly backing away saying it's not the answer.

Read his manifesto again. He tried the methods you seem to think are still working. He wrote his congressman, and senators. He tried the "right" avenues. He was at his wits end because as you seem to be missing... IT DOESN'T WORK!!!

Innocent people will die. It is sad. It's a shame you can't just take out the corrupt. Unfortunately, the Elite aren't going to stop using human shields and starting wars and ignoring YOU. Pay attention!

He flew a plane into a building because we all KNOW that gets attention. How many of you read his manifesto before he crashed into the building? How many have since? I think he's getting the results he wanted. Well done, Mr. Stack!

Now, I am going to say this and not with fear mongering as my reason...

You all better get your a**es in gear. The government is going to milk this to the fullest possible extent. If you weren't ready to fight before, you better be now. The MSM is going to play this out. Paint it bad for those of you who believe in the Constitution. More laws will be written. More freedoms removed. Stand up, or die. Those will be your options.

Get your delusions about there being a peaceful way to handle this out of your heads. They don't give a rat's ass about your letters, your calls, your thoughts, or your imaginary votes. You mean nothing more than a means to pay off debt to them. Those of you saying you're ashamed of ATS because we applaud this guy.. well... it's mutual. We're ashamed of you because you're refusing to acknowledge what's real and what's fiction.

Peace changing this country- FICTION.

Wake up!! Mr. Stack opened the curtains... now it's time for you to open your eyes and see daylight for once.

You know, this whole scenario was played out a little too perfectly for my liking. The house on fire, the symbolic plane into the building. The fact no one was killed except him (so it's alleged), and this perfectly written manifesto that happens to be posted on the Internet.

I don't know exactly what it would accomplish for this to be a big set up, but when I read his words, he sounds like a completely coherent man who is articulate and aware. Many times these manifestos include ramblings that hint of a screw loose. After reading what he wrote, I am having trouble believing that this man would endanger people whom he knows full well are experiencing the injustice he is. He sounds more likely to have gone for the jugular of those who are perpetrating the crimes he speaks of, as opposed to the unwitting clerk sitting at her desk.

Certainly, TPTB will want to see what kind of discussions and theories come from this event. I'm not saying there aren't people at their wits end who would be capable of this sort of thing, because we've already seen killings by people presumed to have committed the crimes because they snapped over financial problems, etc. But something about this event doesn't seem quite right.

I would be curious to find out more about this victim's history prior to the crash.

Originally posted by anubis9311
During the French revolution innocent people were killed. Sheep to the slaughter. During the American civil war innocent people were wasted to gain an upper hand. during the first world war innocent people were killed. during WW2 millions of innocent people died. every war has it's casualties every action be it good or bad has it's consequence. If this man's actions end up being the shot that starts the war then so be it. If not then let his act at least stand for the way the big business takes from the lonely worker who helps them build their empire. 100 years ago we would all work in a factory to make money. Even then it was a sad amount of money. Then came the unions and they changed the world for a short time. Sadly they too were corrupted Now it will take someone new to fill their role. We need people to stand up and say "we aren't going to take it anymore". People willing to stand in the streets chanting that until others wake up also. People believe they are all alone in the suffering the go through day by day. If they see(as in this case) that others suffer the same problems they wont be so afraid to stand up with them and chant. One voice in the dark only makes people think that person is crazy. However if 100s of voices in the dark start chanting the windows open and lights come on and maybe even more come out of their house to see what is going on. Some may return to the sanctity of their homes and the life they live. However maybe some of them will join in the cause. The more people that stand up and fight back the better the chance of winning.

Originally posted by l neXus l

excellent, i agree, but the only thing taht can change the system is unity, ants work together in a colony all as one, each has a place and they make it work flawlessly, they are insignificant mindless insects, but humans the most advanced species on the planet cant even get along, unity not violence is the key to change

Both statements are very correct and I am speaking to everybody.

Lets face it.
Killing innocent people is gay. Acts of random terrorism, like what this guy did kind of, is beyond gay, all the way out there out of this galaxy, gay way of thing.

What you people need is a different kind of revolution.
The kind of revolution social networking would grand you.
Yeah!
Gather together 2 or 3 unemployed guys.
Speak to each other and acknowledge the facts.
First understand that you are not alone, since some else is guaranteed to suffer the same hardships as you people do.
Understand that what is locking you out of the potential of success is other rival social structures, that belong to different people with different sets of goals and different kinds of ideas and views of reality.
It takes an army to fight an army.
Think about the movie Fight Club, but do this in terms of your own betterment of lives, not random acts of terrorism.
This way they can't bring the Agencies on you, they can't bring the Law on you, they can't bring the State on you, unless certain groups try to actually bend the very laws to accommodate their willing. In this case, you simply hide behind the same laws and use the courts if these actions are directed against you.

Build you own power structure from the ground up!
Maybe the great revolution leading to an Utopian society will never materialize, bu then again so what? You will be living a batter life already!
You may have to rival other groups that might be doing the same by the time you have all this set up and running, but at least you would be rivaling your own, not the same ole same ole corrupted establishement, which btw you would have already brought down on its knees.

You can have your own social system, your own ideology. Just break free from your limiting beliefs, you can do anything.
F*ck Communism
F*ck Capitalism
F*ck Anarchism
F*ck Terrorism
Don't let yourselves be the puppets for some failed ideologists.

In fewer words F*ck the system. They control anything of the above.
Don't play their game. Play your game, but first you have to figure out what your game will be.
Social Networking can get you very far.
Prove and Improve yourselves.


btw.

That guy Jo Stack was a loser, God bless his soul since he's dead right now but, hey, he's dead! His family will be having problems because of him now, if they haven't been through it already. Definitely something a loser would accomplish.
DON'T BE A LOSER! People you have to use your brains for once, make a difference, a real one. Random revolutions are for losers.
Sit all your life, do nothing, then one day feeling like won't take it anymore, you go out, you blow yourself up and others. What will you change? Nothing! What a loser!

[edit on 19-2-2010 by spacebot]

You know, one thing we need to remember....

Things are definitely reaching a boiling point in the U.S.. I hope we all can remember that there are plenty of people working diligently at the behest of TPTB to f--- with our minds and create problems among groups like this one, all for the purpose of breaking the unity. They used such tactics during the Civil Rights Movement with the Black Panthers (bad comparison, I know, but it's the only one I've got right now)

We all have strong opinions on the issue of violence, and we will each respond in a way that feels right when and if the time comes. So to argue the point is really not going to do any good, just as when the atheist argues with the Christian or the Republican goes at it with the Democrat.

We have to keep focused on working in unison, or Americans will engage in civil war, which would be a dream come true for TPTB. Then they could do whatever the hell they wanted to to contain the "natives." However, I will add that violent acts by groups lends to the mob mentality and will certainly be met with greater force.

I'm just wondering. . . if it turns out there's more to this Austin incident than meets the eye, was it intended to create these tensions or maybe to start bringing on the most vocal of citizens who advocate violence to the forefront so they can identify them?

Originally posted by brainwrek
I too applaud his actions.

It's good to see Americans stand up and give the government a giant middle finger.

I foresee more of this as things get worse.

I would have to agree, once this sleeping giant starts to move again it's going to knock over some 'lampshades' so to speak.

rc is the best way to fly toys

*edit to add it was my hubby that posted this ... duh ... i told him one liners are taboo so now he knows.

i haven't had a chance to read this post so I don't know that i can comment on it ...

[edit on 19-2-2010 by cnichols]

There's no excuse to kill innocent people because you are angry at the IRS.
This guy thought he was striking some blow against what? The IRS?
In reality he killed innocent people who are just as concerned about putting food in the mouths of their children as he was.
And secondly, I have no doubt his little 'exercise' in Tax Code was likely illegal.
This guy deserves a special place in wherever those who commit infanticide go.
And anyone who says they applaud his actions, you are sadly and horribly misguided.
Yesterday my first reaction was... how sad... for the people he killed.
For this guy, I feel sad that anyone in this world would ever feel so hopeless as to take their own life... but I feel so much worse for the families of the people he killed.
Shame on him.

Originally posted by Erasurehead
Anyone that thinks violence is the answer is delusional. Violence is the last thing you want to think about when going up against the most powerful people on the planet. They will destoy you. You simply can't match them with force.

Any violence against the government would be quickly squashed and the vast majority of the people would support the government crackdown. The government owns the media and they would make any one that is against them look like a bunch of crazy extremists. You can't win that way.

You are right that violance is always the last resort. However, there are individuals who have made their line in the dirt and they're quite simply, done! Tyrants always have a huge advantage no matter the size and method of the conflict or revolution. But tyrants also-almost without exception-go too far. It won't be pretty but others will become aghast at the horrors inflicted upon the citizenry; those that remain peaceful and those "separatists" allready fighting will began to coalesce. But it sure as hell won't be pretty. Washington had less than 10% of the population.

Wow, reading through just a few posts and seeing people applaud and condone this guy flying his plane into a building with intent to kill people makes me think just how crazy some of you are on this site.

You see terrorism as OK now? So because he did something for a specific reason it makes it OK? The attack on the WTC, the Oklahoma City bombing, the Waco incident, ALL the suicide bombings in Iraq, bombings in Spain, etc... you applaud and condone those as well? You call what he did 'patriotism' instead of 'terrorism'. Do you not think Iraqis call their suicide bombers 'patriotic'?

It's just sick how many people here don't care if innocent people are killed as long is the killer/terrorist has reasons for doing what he does.

So he wanted his opinion to matter. Do you really think the opinion of a terrorist is going to matter? That's just how crazy this guy was "Oh, they don't listen to me. Well, maybe crashing a plane into a building to kill people will grant me more merit!". NO! It will just make you look like a crazy guy who went off the deep-end. If I wrote a manifesto and then tomorrow go and shoot everyone at school will you make me a hero as well? Will my thoughts matter any more then than they do now?

I'm done with this place for now. Tired of seeing people make a martyr out of this guy.

gorge washington one of the first terrorist in the u.s.a if you ask the other side...

*edit to add it was my hubby that posted this ... duh ... i told him one liners are taboo so now he knows.

i haven't had a chance to read this post so I don't know that i can comment on it ...

[edit on 19-2-2010 by cnichols]

Originally posted by NightGypsy
You know, this whole scenario was played out a little too perfectly for my liking. The house on fire, the symbolic plane into the building. The fact no one was killed except him (so it's alleged), and this perfectly written manifesto that happens to be posted on the Internet.

I agree.. Funny they tie him to the Tea Party movement. I saw the story on BBC World News this morning. Eye witness said something to the effect that he thought he saw the plane pull up, but he must have been wrong because the next thing he saw was a fireball. This whole thing smells like the 9/11 "plane" that "crashed" into the pentagon. Tea Party Movement + Plane flown into building + no loss of life makes my BS sensor ring loud.....

Hmm where to start, maybe he went wrong by not advertising he was going to do it in the first place and called it something cool like "shock and awe" and people would have thought it was cool then? Why is terrorism only related to what happens directly to the USA?

People say they feel sorry for this guy or whatever but what about ourselves? The rest of us people (with a job to do, with responsibility) can only comment on a good or a bad thing. While we sit on our hands our brothers and sisters on the front line get pushed to far and do something insane after a rush of blood to the head, when all the while we could be united and caring of what is actually happening in our society. Defenders of justice!! Everything has become such a process.

A little bit of support goes a long way, after all anyone of us could end up in a similar position tomorrow. Then how would we feel?

Cue the real crazies coming out of the woodwork, a terrorist is a terrorist muslim or "patriot". In Ireland we saw the IRA do the work that certain domestic US groups want to do, which this event may or may not have been to spark it off. The irish rallied behind the IRA and helped them.


What did it get them? the leaders of the IRA where bought became part of the elite and they only take care of their small little flock, not the irish people on the whole.


This will be the case with any serious domestic movement here in the US. You wont be helping Americans as a whole as everyone has their price. You're leaders will be bought off and become part of the TPTB.

Ask any regular member of the IRA, ask them what they got and they will tell you, alot of friends and family killed along with innocents, and their bosses got richer. nothing changed.

Violence or no violence, nothing will ever change, the power is in their hands, and nothing we can do can stop it.

The only thing we can look forward to is human evolution, eventually hopefully the need to have materials is gone and the need to truly help each other out will come about.

civilization has reset and reset time and time again, and i do believe books like the bible where left as a guideline, for the next, what they learned to help our civilization.

my friends our civilization will crumble, its already on track, what we must do is write our own "book" and i think that has already been written, i think its the internet. It will be found by the next civilization, and they will better the human race that much more, and then they will crumble, and so on and so on.

Take you're place in life, enjoy it as much as you can and accept what is going on. Do not take action against others, do not dwell on the wrongs of our government, need not stress over such things. Just raise a family and teach them you're values. Thats the only good you can do. Evolve.

Also to add, to you future domestic terrorists out there... assemble and plan around my family, my future, my America. I won't call the cops on you, I won't say a peep...


I will clense you with my own blade. For people like you do humanity a great injustice. It makes me sick that there is still a need for people like me to bear the load of the likes of you. But people like you will just make it harder for the regular guy, more laws, more rights taken away, my family blown up at the market.


And, alot of us will not and cannot stand for that. We will take it apon ourselves to rid you of our nests. for you have no place next to me and no right to call yourself a brother of mine.

I think Malcom X had the right idea all along.


Historically, revolutions are bloody. Oh, yes, they are. They haven't never had a blood-less revolution, or a non-violent revolution. That don't happen even in Hollywood. You don't have a revolution in which you love your enemy, and you don't have a revolution in which you are begging the system of exploitation to integrate you into it. Revolutions overturn systems. Revolutions destroy systems. ---Malcom X


Full speech below. I feel its relevant to the topic at hand. Just change white to new world order and black to common man.
Malcolm

[edit on 19-2-2010 by boomadatigger]

[edit on 19-2-2010 by boomadatigger]