High School Sued For Spying On Students With Laptop Cameras

Originally posted by soficrow

...Time to share some defensive techniques, methinks.

I admit I'm paranoid enough that if I did have a computer that I had gotten through work or school, you better believe that the webcam would be taped over anytime I wasn't actively using it. I don't see how you can go wrong with a piece of electrical tape -- cheap, easy, and unhackable

Creeper...

I was watching a video on Google once and had my web cam turn on...

In old school buddhism the karma for spying is to be born in a life with no ears or deaf... In this case maybe its also no eyes?
It's like stealing parts of peoples lives...

totally creepy

Originally posted by vyrox
reply to post by mikellmikell

 

Definitely install a clean OS, as suggested, I recommend ubuntu if you can. if you want a system that microsoft doesn't have any backdoors installed in, that is.

if you still want windows, get vista (annoying as heck, but asks you before it does anything) and get a good security program(I reccommend lightspeed or, better yet, avast) and definitely remove remote desktop.

Other than that, I wouldn't know what to do.

Or pclinuxos, my favorite and easy to use, or mepis. In fact best to have both in case one favors your monitor resoluion.

[Theoretically] The gov't are required to present you with a warrant to search your home unless they have a really good reason (I did put the "Theoretically" at the beginning...). That the school invaded the home of a minor without permission or invitation is scandalous. Even if the police did enter your home without a warrant and took a picture of you it would be considered inadmissable in court. Same with the 'evidence' the school has. Whatever they are accusing the kid of doing 'didn't happen' in a legal sense.

Let's say that the boy was doing something very wrong (whatever it was) and they took their little snapshot to prove it and he had been naked at the time. The person snapping that shot is committing a vile crime. A complete invasion of privacy.

My wife tells a story of when she was at a new school (there were a lot of those, but that's not the issue here) and was asked to write one of those "All about my family" essays. She refused, and told the teacher that she'd write an essay, but the details of her household were private and none of the teacher's business. It makes me wonder that these "harmless" little stories every schoolkid is asked to write are not kept in some way for information.

I monitor my son's homework and he's had this request made. I make sure it's really very vague information he gives.

The schools need to do what they are paid to do - educate children. That there is so much homework seems to indicate they are spending too much time doing other things. They need to stop at the gates.

This spying is wrong on so many levels. There's a definite chain of command in these things, and every link needs to be punished.
These people were, for all intents and purposes, in the home uninvited and were therefore trespassing. They are lucky they didn't get shot!

This makes me so angry I can barely contain it. I can't stop thinking about how totally ****ED our school systems have become. When I was 16 (in 2001) I sent an MSDOS message to every computer on the network at the time (almost 100) joking about how my friend was turning gay and dumping his girlfriend, to be happy for his new life, or something stupid like that.

Caused a hellstorm and I ended up leaving the school, because the administration was on an obsessive witchhunt to punish me for being a homophobe. In reality I said nothing bad about gay people - the fact that they thought it was bad, in my mind made THEM the homophobes. Crazy situation. Reading this article makes me SO BADLY want to go back in time and tell them my piece of mind. I would have threatened to go to the media if I could, downright blackmail the school. And it would have worked back then.

This current incident is 1000 times worse. The media may be loosely controlled by the same forces that implement these policies, but one thing they'll never miss is a juicy controversy. This incident is so bad that we'll probably see the media siding with the students, and we may even see some positive reformation of current policy.

You know this makes me wonder now as well... don't most (or some) laptops that have a webcam built in also have a microphone built in? Can you imagine all the chatter they could pick up doing this?

Think about it. Philadelphia has very high crime rates, including a ton having to do with drugs and such. The DEA works like so: They catch a low level street dealer (usually someone young) try and flip them, and keep going up the 'food chain.'

So, what if this is something that the government setup, paid for, and is doing all over the country? Like I stated in my previous post, I can't see a Philadelphia public school was able to pay for something like this unless they funneled funds to the wrong place and put this system into play.

So now think, not just video feed, but audio being taped that is following around whomever is holding the laptop.

Imagine the possibilities that this would enable. It's scary to even think about.

Originally posted by americandingbat

Originally posted by Blazer
Need more data before condemning the school. For example, what if it were this scenario:
1. School has remote admin software on all its laptops (this is not at all uncommon)
2. Student was VPN into school network, and their IDS, firewall, or otherwise network security monitors detected the student trying to hack into their servers or some other unauthorized access.
3. Upon detecting the unauthorized activity, they immediately determine what IP address the intrusion is coming from. Know full well the kid would just say "it wasn't me", "my brother did it", etc, they activate his webcam and take a snapshot which thus proves it was the student at the keyboard at the time of the intrusion.

Given the above scenario, would you still condemn the school?

I have to say yes, I would. According to the lawsuit filed, students and parents were not notified that the webcams could be activated remotely -- that right there makes them guilty, in my opinion. (the pdf of the suit can be downloaded from the BoingBoing source in the OP, if anyone's interested in reading it)

In your scenario, I have no problem with the school monitoring activity occurring on their servers or through their network. The problem comes when they put the ability to get "proof" of who a guilty party is ahead of the privacy rights of the family by enabling and using remote webcam activation without any notice.

Im fairly certain they were notified in some manner that since they are using school equipment that any and all activities may be monitored. Im not saying its right for the monitoring to include the webcam, but I have worked on both sides of corporate IT and I can tell you that its common practice for company laptops to have remote admin software as well as many disclaimers that anything you do on company equipment is subject to being monitored (3 places I worked at even had this notice displayed every time you logged into your laptop).

Do I believe that even that sort of notified monitoring should extend to webcams? NO. But, like I said, if the laptop, which is their equipment, was being used to do something unauthorized to their network, or received a complaint of it being used for DOS attacks or something, they probably have the right to activate the webcam for the sole purpose of identifying who was doing the activity.

Thats why I said more data was needed. If they were busting some kid who was hacking or something, thats different than if they were just being nosey, or blatantly looking for kids undressing or something.

Again, personally I think the webcam monitoring is wrong. But not only do I think that having remote admin software installed on their property/equipment is okay, but its the norm for IT. If you want to be private or watch porn or whatever, don't use a company or loaned laptop to do it.

Having worked in corporate IT myself, I had full remote admin to hundreds of users laptops and desktops. Technically I also had access to activate their webcams (since the remote admin software lets you do *anything*), but I didnt specifically "warn" any users that I could do this, any more than I "warned" them that I could see all their files or change their registry, screensaver etc. They were notified though that anything they did on company equipment or networks was subject to being monitored.

I just cannot fathom high school IT staff sitting around on the weekend watching kids through their webcam, and then contacting parents about what they saw. I could more believe some perv IT guy watching kids undress or something, in which case they definitely would not say anything about it right?

There has to be more to this story because it doesnt make sense that a school would officially be spending resources to watch students at home...do you really think a school is paying ppl overtime to do this? no way!

I do agree that it doesn't make sense that a school would intentionally activate a web cam remotely unless their system detected something of a concern. But, it also makes sense that if something illegal or unauthorized was happening (by this one student) than WHY are all 1800 students/families involved in the class action suit? To me, that indicates something larger going on...

It's frustrating that this information has not been released.

reply to post by Rapacity


Let the Big Government, Far Left have complete control of the schools and this is what you get. Big Government, macro-control of your lives and Big Brother. Three cheers for the Progressives we let control our children! Rah! Rah! Sis Boom Bah!

Really though, its probably a porn source for the Pedo's teaching the classes.

This is just appalling. I don't see how they could discipline him for something he did in his own home. When they used that picture as evidence is that when they filed the lawsuit? One thing that boggles me, correct me if I'm wrong, but if the laptop is CLOSED, then how are they going to use the web cam? If the laptop is not in use why is it left open? I have a laptop with a web cam and it certainly doesn't work when closed... Great find! S&F

Originally posted by Son of Will
This makes me so angry I can barely contain it. I can't stop thinking about how totally ****ED our school systems have become.

Look long and hard at who controls the schools. The Teachers Union and the Progressive side of the DNP in partnership. Perhaps things like this will wake people up to who their hero's truly are when nobody is looking.

They were not interested in the kid's. They were after the Parents. Watch the video's leak if the law suit has teeth.

Our wonderful Progressive head of schools here, went public with emailed complaints for Parents and oddly enough she was not fired. She has the local newspaper in her hip pocket, which is also a unashamedly Progressive rag. We even had one of the Progressives who lied to get on the Municipalities Council admit they lie to get elected and that they don't care if they are not re-elected. The way they think is we will just have another liar amongst us pretend to be moderate to replace us. Progressives are the best liars on the planet.

The Right I understand and can protect myself from them and know what they are about when I vote for them, if I do. The Progressives though are a dangerous beast. They behave like sociopaths with no remorse for lying or cheating people and consider themselves superior to us. It simply does not matter what we want to them. We are too stupid to matter. Their goal is the elimination of the Republic and complete control of us idiotic masses.

If people would wake up to the truth, we all would be marching on the Union offices and the Schools administrators demanding their heads. What do we do. We elect one of them and give them complete control of the whole government including the schools. The union see's to it that no rational people ever make it to the podium to teach things like truth, honor and honesty.

They have the control they wanted, now lets hope they don't simply round up our children and take them as they would really like to do as they secretly worship Mao, Stalin, Castro and Che.

Our computers could be doing the same thing to us right now,couldn't they?

It's always "after the fact" that these things come out.

There are probably devices all over your home right now that can watch or listen to everything you say and do.

To think it can't happen is naive.
To think about it too much is paranoia!

reply to post by Rapacity


This is crazy and way over the top! If this is true then God help us.

Remote administration access into the privacy of the home of a student - WTF! Holy crap!

I hope I did not read that right, let us all hope this is a misinterpretation

If not, this kid better sue the pants off the district and the entire state to send a clear message, this goes way above Nannie State issues and indoctrination of our kids. Now they can access a PC cam in the privacy of "possibly" underage students? Again - WTF!

Did they have these kids sign some kind of small print consent line or something. Good grief

They better burn these people - I am a little PO'ed now


[edit on 18-2-2010 by arizonascott]

Originally posted by Blazer
Im fairly certain they were notified in some manner that since they are using school equipment that any and all activities may be monitored. Im not saying its right for the monitoring to include the webcam, but I have worked on both sides of corporate IT and I can tell you that its common practice for company laptops to have remote admin software as well as many disclaimers that anything you do on company equipment is subject to being monitored (3 places I worked at even had this notice displayed every time you logged into your laptop).

I'm basing my understanding that there was no notification on the following passage from the allegation:

22. An examination of all of the written documentation accompanying the laptop, as well as any documentation appearing on any website or handed out to students or parents concerning the use of the laptop, reveals that no reference is made to the fact that the school district has the ability to remotely activate the embedded webcam at any time the school district wished to intercept images from that webcam of anyone or anything appearing in front of the camera at the time of the activation.

(quoted from the pdf available through the BoingBoing link)

Do I believe that even that sort of notified monitoring should extend to webcams? NO. But, like I said, if the laptop, which is their equipment, was being used to do something unauthorized to their network, or received a complaint of it being used for DOS attacks or something, they probably have the right to activate the webcam for the sole purpose of identifying who was doing the activity.

You make excellent points, and the legal issues should be interesting. If for instance the parents/students were informed in the way that companies you've worked for have informed that any activities on the computer could be monitored, should they have understood that to imply that the camera could be remotely activated? In my opinion, no, but I can see the other side too. In my opinion, authorizing the school to monitor activity on the computer is not the same as authorizing the school to use the computer remotely. I don't know the IT end of it well enough to know how those things can be differentiated specifically, but to a layperson the distinction between having someone watch what you make your computer do and having someone make your computer do something without your authorization is pretty instinctive. Any authorization process ought to take this into account.

Thats why I said more data was needed. If they were busting some kid who was hacking or something, thats different than if they were just being nosey, or blatantly looking for kids undressing or something.

I actually agree with you that it's unlikely this was just a case of some nosy school administrator randomly accessing webcam images in hope of finding a kid doing something "naughty". Part of the problem though is that this kind of power does carry the threat of such abuses. Even assuming that the particular case that brought this potential privacy violation to light was exactly something like what you suggest, the fact that parents and children were unaware of the potential implication of bringing the webcams into their homes is troublesome.

Again, personally I think the webcam monitoring is wrong. But not only do I think that having remote admin software installed on their property/equipment is okay, but its the norm for IT. If you want to be private or watch porn or whatever, don't use a company or loaned laptop to do it.

One thing that's not clear to me from the articles I've seen is whether these were in fact loaned laptops or gifted laptops.

Having worked in corporate IT myself, I had full remote admin to hundreds of users laptops and desktops. Technically I also had access to activate their webcams (since the remote admin software lets you do *anything*), but I didnt specifically "warn" any users that I could do this, any more than I "warned" them that I could see all their files or change their registry, screensaver etc. They were notified though that anything they did on company equipment or networks was subject to being monitored.

Again, I see a difference between monitoring and actively interfering. I assume (to use a fairly benign example) that it would have been considered an abuse of your powers to go around changing everyone's screensavers -- you would have faced some form of disciplinary action from the company that owned the computers.

I just cannot fathom high school IT staff sitting around on the weekend watching kids through their webcam, and then contacting parents about what they saw. I could more believe some perv IT guy watching kids undress or something, in which case they definitely would not say anything about it right?

Right, which is part of why this case is important. People need to be clearly informed that such a scenario is possible so that can be avoided. Imagine the trouble the school system would be in if instead of coming to light this way, there had been a single "bad apple" IT guy/gal who did use the webcams in this way, and distributed images he/she obtained?

There has to be more to this story because it doesnt make sense that a school would officially be spending resources to watch students at home...do you really think a school is paying ppl overtime to do this? no way!

I think the "more to this story" is the larger struggle in society to come up with guidelines that allow us to benefit from technological advances without being victimized by them, and to invent a legal framework that can define and protect users' rights.

I cannot recall the last time a story about privacy invasion infuriated me so much.

Anyone who cares even one iota about privacy should email these despicable scumbags and let them know the abject outrage they have caused.

Here's their contact address: [email protected]

If that school district's server is not crashed by Friday morning, there is truly no hope for this country. And if you have children (I do not) let me encourage you to seriously consider home schooling. Imagine all of the other egregious chicanery that goes on at these government indoctrination centers that you never even hear about.

I am so profoundly disgusted by these obtuse bureaucrats that I am tempted to submit an amicus curie brief to plaintiffs' lawsuit just to remind the defendants what reprehensible Douche-Bags they are!

... this is a VERY mad world for people to have to do this if you don't think kids are not going to look up crazy things you need to just stop i swear the school system is so crazy its just not even right message me if you fill that I am wrong

reply to post by soficrow


yeah that is quite a concern, which is why i believe people should educate themselves on how to manage their computers, I for one format my harddrive at least 2 times a year, in other words if the so called "spying software" is on my computer it will be obliterated, however if it was on there in the first place that means that the govt can probably put it back on there again, which is why its important to learn to maintain your own computer, here in Australia there was a case of a computer shop looking through a customers private files without permission, and i wouldnt be suprised if they installed some sort of spy software as well.

You know this is my first post in a long time, with that stated.

What concerns me more is that 1800 students all which according to this article seem to have NO common sense when it comes to computers.

Most build it laptops the web cam is only accessible when the screen is up.

I have 2 daughters oldest is 7 and the youngest is 3. My 7 year old can dismantle a entire computer and put one back together without any problems. Her younger sister at 3 years old knows how to boot up a PC and navigate her way around when she is on one.

What the school did was wrong very wrong but for a entire high school of kids with no computer common sense bothers me as well. This does not give me much hope for those children. As others have stated its not hard to see where the web cam is located at on a laptop and a simple piece of black electrical tape would have done the trick if you were going to leave that monitor up and pointed at you 24/7

Originally posted by HolydarknessVA
You know this is my first post in a long time, with that stated.

What concerns me more is that 1800 students all which according to this article seem to have NO common sense when it comes to computers.

Most build it laptops the web cam is only accessible when the screen is up.

I have 2 daughters oldest is 7 and the youngest is 3. My 7 year old can dismantle a entire computer and put one back together without any problems. Her younger sister at 3 years old knows how to boot up a PC and navigate her way around when she is on one.

What the school did was wrong very wrong but for a entire high school of kids with no computer common sense bothers me as well. This does not give me much hope for those children. As others have stated its not hard to see where the web cam is located at on a laptop and a simple piece of black electrical tape would have done the trick if you were going to leave that monitor up and pointed at you 24/7

Yeah be that as it may, the students nor the parents werent told that the school could at any time remotely activate the webcam, and what do you base that on? that the 1800 students had no common sense, clearly says in the OP article that one student had a picture taken of him doing something, i highly doubt that if that one student was just hacking say a server or something that the whole populace of students that were using the laptops would be involved in the case.

This is the post-freedom world. It's completely different than the pre-9/11 world. Kids will just have to get used to living in the land of fascist security and home of the cowardly sheeple. Only terrorists defend their unalienable rights.