I'm not new to Ufology but this is a well put together thread. Really impressed, good job! S&F from me.

S&F nicley put together. Don't forget our recent Morristown UFO hoax and im not sure if the McPhearson tape would qualify as a "hoax" but it was made and believers just kinda ran with it. But if anyone ever tries to show me the McPhearson tape again i will throw up.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by zaiger]

Great thread I enjoyed reading that a lot.

Have you ever noticed, that as soon as one person pops up and calls any incident debunked, you see a lot of people move away from it and consider it as so, but if you look at the claims, they are based usually on unsubstantiated and instant judgment?

Now I am not saying all UFO stories and evidence are real, far from it, I would like to share something every single one of you can check, if your that way inclined that is.

It is based around the Billy Meier case, the case is always called a deliberate hoax, and has been made to be a laughing stock, however if you seriously look into Billy's story, going way back to where it all started, you will after a while notice something.

It was only after Billy invited an American couple to come visit that it all began to go pear shaped, they convinced Billy to allow them to tell his story in the USA, with the usual promises of his story getting out, just like he was supposedly asked by his visitors from space, he always claimed his intentions where to do what Semjase asked him to do, Billy was a little naive IMO but went ahead and allowed them to take some of his pictures amongst other things with them, they often contacted him to keep him up to date with what was happening, but the true story was that they never had any intention of helping Billy, they wanted to use his story for their own benefit.

I visited Billy Meier in 1996, it was hard to even get close to him, because of all the people living with him, it was like they where in control of all his movements and who he spoke too, some of these people have to be amongst the strangest people I have ever come across, in the three days I was visiting going back and forth to a hotel, I witnessed these people actually advising Billy, even going as far as telling him what to do, but that was just my impression.

When I finally got to talk to him, and explain why I was there at first he was a little stand offish, but when I explained I was not there to share with others, that what I wanted was to satisfy my own curiosity, I spent in total maybe 8 hours in all in the three days talking with him, and he explained to me about how he had been duped, about how his word no longer stood for anything because it had been taken out of his control, he had nothing to do with any ray gun, what he said was people where doing things and passing over pictures without consulting him about most of it, even his wife had been drawn into it because she was sick and tired of the interruption in their lives, but I never got to speak to her or anyone who was around before the claims of hoax.

I found him to be a down to earth man, and the impression I got was he believed everything he was telling me, and I had not a single reason to not believe him, he got quite a little upset when he spoke about how what he thought was for the benefit of mankind, was turned into a huge joke.

Problem was he had let it all get to him, I suppose I would also, would probably send me to the asylum after a breakdown because of what happened, but don't take the word of anyone if your serious about finding the truth, it's easy for someone to sit behind a computer and read fractions of information always posted by people who have never been near Switzerland or even tried to correspond with Billy himself.

In my honest opinion, Billy was eventually set up, to shut him up, to discredit him and his evidence, who did this? I have some suspicions, but without firm evidence of them deliberately discrediting him what would be the point?

There is evidence of those who visited Billy, and their promises of what they offered, even evidence that they never had any intention of helping Billy, he was paraded in front of the World, then had his world kicked from beneath him, taking down the whole pack of cards, there are still many people who like me believe what he said in the beginning, but only because we went and asked ourselves without relying on books written by people more interested in money than preserving the respect of a very likable man.

One guy in particular who does the lecture circuit I spoke to, had to hide his embarrassment when I realized he didn't even know Billy had one arm, how much research do these people actually do before they claim to understand? the least I would call it would be lazy, IMO it is a lot more than that, they make money of a man they discredit, and always bring up the same evidence to claim a hoax, the Ray Gun being amongst the most used.

It's just a shame so many are willing to take their word for it, I also find it extremely sad that when these people say to use logic, that they themselves do not follow their own advice, it is a case of do as I say, not as I do.

There is so much I have left out of this post, but believe me when I say, it could fill several books, books which will never be written, unless someone did it who went into it with a completely open mind, and intentions of telling the real truth behind Billy's story and those who came later.

BTW I am writing this post, not with the intention of debating the Billy Meier case, but for nothing other than telling another version of events told to me by the man himself, you are always entitled to your opinion.

Awesome thread my friend! I can tell a lot of work and effort went into this. The presentation is perfect and the content is superb.

Where does imagination and interpretation meet reality?

That is a fantastic question! Of course that is assuming that reality is not spawned from somethings imagination. What if we were just thoughts of some being? Strange.... Sorry for going off topic, but it was a great question!

Starred and Flagged!!

great thread home biscuit............yea hoaxs are the worst. someone gets pleasure by making something up because their lives are so fu***d

It is a struggle, on both sides of the fence if I am honest.

The fact remains however, until someone comes along with undeniable evidence, the speculation will continue, we all know we have not seen the end of hoaxes and those who spend so much time on trying to create them.

There are people who create these video's who are not intending to hoax anyone, the Haiti video being one example, more to show off their skills and get a foot in the door to a career they want so badly, but like many other careers the hard part is getting in that door.

The strongest point which I find comforting, is those who are skeptical, but still want to see for themselves what people are talking about, I have nothing but the greatest respect for that kind of character, the determination to know for sure, a need to know and understand, making judgment on what they know rather than what they have heard, I think that is the most important way to understand, whether it be Humans, or ET, to know for certain and without doubt, it can be the only way if anyone wants to be honest to themselves, I also understand those who just plain don't want to know, everyone has their reasons.

As you have said, there are those who are so determined to create the hoax that fools all, something I doubt will ever happen, it's like a game of Football (Soccer) a game made up of 22 players on the pitch, and 42,000 referees, it makes the world a great place to live, as long as people can navigate around inside the world, and still remember themselves and their well being.

The whole world of ufology can send people around the bend, Maybe tin foil was made for this before we used it to cook with, who knows?

i was thinking earlier...you know when it comes to finding proof or trying to prove aliens or whatever that since they are highly advanced in intelligence and technology and us being more primitive that even some murder cases takes insects and hair folicles to solve even as sloppy as we are it comes down to science or forensics if you will!

that being said there are still murder cases unsolved so with these beings being more advanced we prolly dont have the science or technology to find proof anyway think about it! they have no hair so therefore no hair folicles there not killin no one so no insects! what kinda proof you gonna look for? i mean really!

[edit on 17-2-2010 by metalholic]

A very good idea for a thread, knowing what's real and what's not is very important, and sometimes we can find some things that look like the sources for things that are presented as present-day ideas.

I would like to add the description of the Selenites from "The first men in the Moon", by H. G. Wells.

It seemed as though it wasn't a face, as though it must needs be a mask, a horror, a deformity, that would presently be disavowed or explained. There was no nose, and the thing had dull bulging eyes at the side - in the silhouette I had supposed they were ears. There were no ears. ... I have tried to draw one of these heads, but I cannot. There was a mouth, downwardly curved, like a human mouth in a face that stares ferociously. ...

And...

The skin, like everything else, looked bluish, but that was on account of the light; and it was hard and shiny, quite in the beetle-wing fashion, not soft, or moist, or hairy, as a vertebrated animal's would be. Along the crest of the head was a low ridge of whitish spines running from back to front, and a much larger ridge curved on either side over the eyes. The Selenite who untied me used his mouth to help his hands.

It has the characteristics of several Alien reports.

It is really hard to disseminate which UFO cases are real and which are hoax's. But then again how can we verify if a UFO case is real when the only tools available to the public is the ability to prove it false? We can take an image and run it through photoshop to see if it is fake but if we cannot come to that conclusion then how are we to take the necessary steps to validify the image or source? That is when we enter the realm of conspiracy and speculation.

From a mere personal standpoint I feel safe in saying that UFO's are in fact a real phenomenon that should be continually studied. That perhaps one day we may have the solid resources to verify it's credibility by comparing it to an actual 'Identified Flying Object.'

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There is so much I have left out of this post, but believe me when I say, it could fill several books, books which will never be written, unless someone did it who went into it with a completely open mind, and intentions of telling the real truth behind Billy's story and those who came later.

BTW I am writing this post, not with the intention of debating the Billy Meier case, but for nothing other than telling another version of events told to me by the man himself, you are always entitled to your opinion. Wow this is really well stated and I could not agree more . I still believe his pictures speak for themselves . Most are obviously not tricks of perception or camera tricks and of course CG did not exist at the time. (SRY azzllin cant seem to get the quote to work right .)

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