Sexual Stigma Survery Part 2

reply to post by Asktheanimals


You missed the point of this. I am purposely going to the general public to find the information because I don't want situational bias. The abuser himself has been studied for years. We know what he says about what he did and we want to see what the general public thinks. My statistic showed that 14.8% of American women will face rape or otherwise be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. Chances are many of us know someone in this situation. There is a psychological phenomena that occurs in a survery such as what I have here and thousands before me. The more people you poll the closer you come to a more detailed and exact average. It occurs all the time. Take a book that you know weighs 5 pounds. You will find that the more and more people who blindly hold the book and guess it's weight, the closer they will come to guessing correct.

I wanted layperson's opinions because I think they are often overlooked as uneducated and I think that is sad. To me sometimes scientists become blinded and narrow sighted due to learning. Just look arond at how many times Bipolar is misdiagnosed as regular depression.

The other reason I am looking into is for the stigma that is attached across gender lines. Does a woman get treated differently when she abuses a child and how does the general public view the two? That factors in greatly as well.

That is why I come to you

-Kyo


[edit on 17-2-2010 by KyoZero]

reply to post by KyoZero

Question 1:

Why do you think a person who suffers abuse as a child sometimes turns into a pedophiliac, serial killer, serial rapist or child abuser as an adult?

Firstly, I think all of our fetishes are developed instantly at one point in our puberty and sexual development. Maybe the first thing you saw and equated with sex was the neighbor girl's panties, or the lifeguard's sandal, or your mom going to the restroom. Therefore, if you were being abused at a key developmental point in your life, your fetish would be that abuse.

Secondly, if you are raised in an environment that includes abuse as "normal" behaviour, then you are going to develop a similar opinion of it. It won't seem like abuse at all, and you won't understand those people who do see it as wrong.

Question 2:

On ocassion we find a serial killer, pedophile, rapist or child abuser who has NO past history of abuse and a clean record. Why do you think some of these people turn to such heinous crimes?

First we need to differentiate. A rapist, or even a pedophile is different than a serial killer. These crimes are entirely different. Pedophiles have a fetish, rapes are often crimes of opportunity, and they come from a deep-seated instinct of survival of species. We are hard-wired to reproduce, and only our evolution and society teach us to be "civilized" about the means in which we satisfy that instinct.

Addressing a serial killer or brutalizer of other humans is different. This is a complete lack of humanity, and I don't believe it has any Freudian connection to sex or mother or anything else. It is just a lack of awareness of the humanity that fellow humans are "alive" or "valuable." Serial killers see people as objects to be experimented with or consumed in some way. They do not see them as equal human beings. Cannibalism is a similar affliction, where one tribe sees another tribe as "sub-human" and therefore acceptable "prey".

reply to post by getreadyalready


Very good answers and I like that you broke question 2 down

Thank you

-Kyo

Just some thoughts .

Originally posted by KyoZero



Question 1:

Why do you think a person who suffers abuse as a child sometimes turns into a pedophiliac, serial killer, serial rapist or child abuser as an adult?

Answer 1: Control (a significant factor at least imho.)

Having to return repeatedly to those painful memories - where everytime they are the victim / prone & vulnerable must be unavoidable.
Now as the abuser they revisit their pain ........, no longer the victim.
This time they are in control . Superimposing these exploits on top of painful memories .Returning to the same event now under their own agency.

The serial killer ? Emotionless psychopathy ?

Originally posted by KyoZero



Question 2:


On ocassion we find a serial killer, pedophile, rapist or child abuser who has NO past history of abuse and a clean record. Why do you think some of these people turn to such heinous crimes?

Answer 2:

" who has NO past history of abuse and a clean record "

Perhaps there are ( early) indicators which are not easy to spot.
Surely these people fantasy about committing these heinous act well in advance of acting out on them (or perhaps some never act upon these urges/fantasy's)


Some very thought provoking questions KyoZero -

=============================================
"child predation and pedophilia across gender lines".

It must at times - be a very upsetting subject to study day in day out .

[edit on 17-2-2010 by UmbraSumus]

[edit on 18-2-2010 by UmbraSumus]

Originally posted by KyoZero
Question 1:
Why do you think a person who suffers abuse as a child sometimes turns into a pedophiliac, serial killer, serial rapist or child abuser as an adult?

Not sure about abuse causing pedophilia, I do not know what causes that. But certainly childhood abuse is a common factor in serial killers and child abusers. This is well established, and there are too many examples. Why? With some, their minds have been too distorted and disturbed to see reality the way we do. Some of them completely lack capacity to have empathy and morality, others are 'repeating' what they have been 'taught'.

Originally posted by KyoZero
Question 2:
On ocassion we find a serial killer, pedophile, rapist or child abuser who has NO past history of abuse and a clean record. Why do you think some of these people turn to such heinous crimes?

There may be a myriad of reasons. For instance, medication (anti-depressives, anti-psychotics) have been implicated in shootings. For the rapists and abusers there may be no history of abuse that we know of, but that doesn't mean there were no negative influences that dominated their childhoods.

Question 1:

Why do you think a person who suffers abuse as a child sometimes turns into a pedophiliac, serial killer, serial rapist or child abuser as an adult?

My Opinion: I think you're begging the question a tad. Have we established a probability/propensity for an abused child to sometimes turn into one of these?

Question 2:

On ocassion we find a serial killer, pedophile, rapist or child abuser who has NO past history of abuse and a clean record. Why do you think some of these people turn to such heinous crimes?

My Opinion: I think that in nature, there are sometimes abberations that don't fit well within the mores of the species. In nature, these creatures are often ostracized or otherwise weeded out -- they may not always be allowed to reproduce and thus pass on their proclivities. This might well link back to thenature/nurture question.

Likewise, I think that sometimes human creatures are "broken" -- some may be amoral. Also, there may be a frequent occurence of the 'past history' having been cocealed. I was prepared to state that many serial killers have had above average intelligence, however I found that I was perpetrating an urban myth of sorts -- when I went to search for an example, I discovered more than a few stats which state that many/most serial killers had borderline to average intelligence

Good luck with your studies.

Originally posted by KyoZero
Due to the extreme level of maturity I wanted to throw out the second part of thi survery. As I explained in the first one this is part of a several hundred respondent post that I am doing for my graduate thesis. So here it goes

2 questions and they are completely open ended. There are NO wrong answers and I pray that we don't start attacking each other. So I will remind again this it toally legit and not meant to troll. Frankly I probably won't even comment as to what my thinking is on these subjects

Question 1:

Why do you think a person who suffers abuse as a child sometimes turns into a pedophiliac, serial killer, serial rapist or child abuser as an adult?

Question 2:

On ocassion we find a serial killer, pedophile, rapist or child abuser who has NO past history of abuse and a clean record. Why do you think some of these people turn to such heinous crimes?

Q1: There are a lot of good answers to part one from what I have read so far. So I will just add a personal theory.

I believe that during abuse many people slip in to a fantasy world to cope with the pain. Many people report pretending they are some where else or that they are somebody else when the abuse occurs. Under repeated trauma this could lead to a disasociation. The person begins to see certain actions as belonging to them and others as not belonging to them. When bad things happen it isn't their fault (to them) because those things don't happen to them. So, when they do these things to others they aren't hurting them. They don't believe they are capable of hurting others.

Really I think it is a question with nearly as many answers as their are people that fall in to the category.

Q2: Not to sound like an ass or an idiot but, some people are just wired wrong. It can be anything from a narcasistic disorder to psychosis. The group of crimes have so many different motivationg factors that you can not really point out an answer that fits all three.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by MikeNice81]

I wasn't aware that ats had broadened in to a forum for completion of college thesis...try craigslist?

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Come on! So is an FBI profiler that works on serial killers actually a serial killer? I dont think so. Is a victim that seeks closure by investigating the mind of ones victimizer now a pedophile? These kinds of statements epitemize what I define as ignorance.

For someone to ask, "Why?" then goes on to try to find out makes them guilty of the crime they are investigating.

Get some sleep!!!!

reply to post by davidmann


Thank you for the snarky response. Had you read the first part you would have seen the following line

"Since this is anonymous and I can’t do certain portions regarding demographics, none of your responses will be used in the statistics that will make up the thesis itself."

I doing my thesis on my own and cannot use the responses I get here. this is simply a topic for people to tackle and debate. If you are not interested I request you move on. As you can see plenty of people have answered with civility and seem to enjoy the topic. I fully understand many people don't want to answer but those people seem to be staying away. Please unless you have a thoughtful response I ask that you do not post here.

Respectfully,

-Kyo

reply to post by KyoZero


Your answer has nothing to do with what I said, which was valid. I know this is a conspiracy site, not a place for completing homework. As a future shrink, you either are aware of conspiracies, or are aware that those who see conspiracies are simply future customers for shrinks. I don't think that many mental doctors stand in the middle ground here. In fact, that you are here means either you question your professional ambitions, or you are familiarizing yourself with your future patients.

Originally posted by davidmann
reply to post by KyoZero

 

Your answer has nothing to do with what I said, which was valid. I know this is a conspiracy site, not a place for completing homework. As a future shrink, you either are aware of conspiracies, or are aware that those who see conspiracies are simply future customers for shrinks. I don't think that many mental doctors stand in the middle ground here. In fact, that you are here means either you question your professional ambitions, or you are familiarizing yourself with your future patients.

And once again I respond that I am doing this topic on this site for fun and to see what the general ATS public thinks. The thesis I am preparing now and it's reposndents have nothing to do with ATS. I find your assumption rather rough.

According to you this is how it goes...

I am a future psychologist. This we already know...

However you think I am here because I am either questioning myself or thinking you are all future patients. Well you have an extraordinarily narrow and dim view of possibilities if that is the case. So let me set the record straight.

I am a future psychologist. I am on ATS because conspiracies and skepticism interest me personally. I am not questioning my ambitions in my professional life and I do not see you all as future patients. And once again in case you didn't see it twice now I am not completing my thesis here. As I said I am doing my thesis with these questions but my surveys I will use in the thesis WILL NOT come from here.

You can't slice the world into black and white like that. Well you can I guess but good luck to you. Me being on ATS has nothing to do with my schooling. If that weere true then I will use Oz as an example (sorry Oz)

Oz is a weather man in Australia. According to you his use of ATS somehow ties to his career.

That isn't how it works for everyone. I am here for fun and to learn outside of the realm of psychology. This site is a personal hobby and interest. People can actually split their personal and professional lives. Now then

Please stop derailing the topic. It was made very clear that we are here to answer these questions I posed and to also discuss the situations at hand.

Please do not post again unless you want to discuss the situations, questions or you wish to answer them.

-Kyo

reply to post by KyoZero


Question 1:

Why do you think a person who suffers abuse as a child sometimes turns into a pedophiliac, serial killer, serial rapist or child abuser as an adult?

Because that's all they know is deviant behavior and probably never had a proper model of normality.

Question 2:

On ocassion we find a serial killer, pedophile, rapist or child abuser who has NO past history of abuse and a clean record. Why do you think some of these people turn to such heinous crimes?

I think it's Antisocial Personality disorder, sometimes there is something in their brains that just doesn't function normally, it could be from physical trauma or just something they're born with. Or certain behaviors never disciplined, lying and manipulation are the signs to the disorder and if left unchecked could lead someone down this road.

reply to post by KyoZero


On your first question I've always felt the mindset of victim to survivor to be one of internalised guilt, self hate while the victim to abuser mindset to be more of an externalised one to projected their guilt, self hate etc. onto their victims.

On your second question I don't rule out more subtle forms of abuse have not taken place, or the abuse is so well covered up as to be almost impossible to find.

The issue in delving into these problems is if the person or therapist assessing them can recognise what has taken place to warp and shape the mind of that person.

Caveat: in my opinion what might be considered a normal upbringing to one person could be harmful to another.. perhaps a series of small events linked within a small time frame could be enough to twist a mind to commit these horrific acts.

As promised I am answering...first let me post what I put somewhere else...then I will post my personal thoughts

In bold are my personal thoughts

Let's take a look at the human as an animal. We as men wish to spread our seed. A few like myself are not remotely interested in kids but that is beside the point. Biologically speaking we want children and many of them. So we look for youth in body and face because youth of body turns on the electrical single for many guys. Who will you want to have children with biologically speaking? A 40 year old woman or a young 18 year old girl who has the looks of youth on her side? Again this is speaking from the primitive brain not the social one.

Thing is we men are designed to find youth attractive. Now let's talk about deviation. Deviation is normal. Any time you take statistics on something (say asking a guy what age of girl he is most attracted to...IF you could make them 100% honest) you are going to deviate. What's the norm? 18? 22? Whatever the norm is you will naturally have deviatioon where many guys will say older and many younger. Again the issue we have here is honesty. What guy is going to honestly admit in the face of death and dismemberment to finding someone like Amanda Bynes, the Olsen Twins or some other young girl attractive (PS...I think the Olsen Twins look like catfish...I digress)

Now let's flip the coin. What are women biologically attracted to? Safety and power is what science tells us. What's more secure? The 18 year old working at Chuck E Cheese or Joe Millionaire with his 2 houses and 8 cars? Ever heard girls fawn over Johnny Depp? Look how old he is

Then we have the ever present taboo concept. It's wrong and that turns some people on. The 30 year old can say he scored with some teen and the teen can say she bagged a 30 year old.

I can go on. We've covered biology and psychology

How about Sociology? We idolize sex symbols and so our young girls want attention to. My cousin Bobbie is now 15 and she is a real beauty queen. Problem is like any other teen girl she wants attention. How does she solve this dilemma? Dress in as little as possible because that is what Miley Cyrus does. I will tell you one day she showed up to go mini golfing with myself and my wife...she had to change after I read her my speech

Let's try parenting (uh oh...now I am gonna get real popular) Maybe just maybe parents should take some resonsibility. Have we seen how we let our girls dress? Belly chains, hip huggers, spaghetti straps...and that is the 12 year olds!

How about evolution...one of my favorites. A few hundred years ago it was the norm...the NORM for an older gent to wed a young girl and start having sex. Why? Because we needed the population to grow. Well all we did was change the rules. I don't think all of our brains have grown to get completely away from that. Evolution takes a long time.

So look at all this and tell me you are still surprised these heinous acts...and they are heinous acts IMO...occur. We have so many little girls dressing like tramp with belly rings, no parenting to tell them it is wrong, the male AND female complexes, stars and rolemodels like Miley Cyrus dressing like they do and not enough time to evolve to realize that you SHOULD be thinking about sex well after childhood.

No...I hate that pedophilia exists. I hate that child sexual abuse exists. This is why I am starting my masters in Forensic Psychology...I want to hit this problem from both the abuser and the victim's sides.

Regardless...I abhor that it happens...I am saddend...but alas I am not at all surprised out little girls get taken advantage of



-Kyo

reply to post by KyoZero


Also as promised I will answer each question directly

Question 1:

Why do you think a person who suffers abuse as a child sometimes turns into a pedophiliac, serial killer, serial rapist or child abuser as an adult?

In your formative years you are developing. Freud, like it or not, made some good points. Damage during your formative years can stunt your emotional growth. The current belief I have is as follows:

Take a 7 year old boy. He s rape and assaulted (stranger or family...you can choose). I believe that this severe and intense trauma will emotionally stunt this young man. As he grows he becomes more intelligent and eventually his hormones kick in and sexual attraction begins. What I believe is that while he has grown physically and emotionally, his social retardation keeps him on the same social level as when he experienced the trauma, at 7. So he may still relate to that old self and in turn relate to that age, or around that age.

Second, sex is our most personal piece of identity. This young man has lost that identity and thus he wants to gain power back. I believe this is why several abused children and teens find themselves wanting power and hence overpower other children since there is a small semblance of identity.

Question 2:

On ocassion we find a serial killer, pedophile, rapist or child abuser who has NO past history of abuse and a clean record. Why do you think some of these people turn to such heinous crimes?

Tough call. Hormones, chemical inbalance or perhaps even social issues. Clearly this activity is a deviation of normal activity. I think it is reasonably normal for a guy to see some young 16 or 17 year old and think but when we look younger than that there is a deviant behavior brewing. THIS is the part I really want to study. Where did this behavior stem from when there was no abuse as a child themselves.

Discuss away if you like

-Kyo