Reasons To Believe

I have seen so many Christian bashing threads on here that I felt as if I had to write this.

First off I would like to state that I do understand why you do not believe. You stopped looking.

You see, in order to find anything you have to look for it. If you do not look for something it makes it very difficult to find it. You may as well be blind to what you are searching for.

One argument I hear a lot is--How could God always have been there?--No beginning and no ending? Come on.

Well in fact, science can explain that. They refer to it as infinity. If you want to know the answer learn a little science.

It goes on with questions like that for a while.

Then the basher usually throws something at me like---Give me undeniable proof---lol.

To that I would reply. Why? You still wouldn't believe. Jesus states that we will ask for signs and still not believe. I have to prove nothing. I only have to know for me. If you ask me what do I know, you will not believe.

Then usually comes the--Trying to invoke anger-- Just to say--See you got angry!!--Your not supposed to do that.--lol.

To that I would say, If you do not hold yourself to that standard, how could you possibly even think to hold someone else to that standard.

So to all you bashers, if you post.......Start looking for the answers yourself.

You know who you are. If you do not open yourself to even the slightest possibility that there are things out there that you cannot understand, let alone explain, then you are wasting your time. And the clock is ticking.

reply to post by Conclusion


I don't believe because I know it's ridiculous to base one's view of the universe and infinity on a self-contradicting, frequently-inaccurate, allegorical bronze-age farmer's manual.

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by Conclusion

 

I don't believe because I know it's ridiculous to base one's view of the universe and infinity on a self-contradicting, frequently-inaccurate, allegorical bronze-age farmer's manual.

Hmm. Yes. You have arrived. I have been waiting on you. Self-contradicting? Please elaborate on that. Frequently-inaccurate? Once again elaborate. Allegorical bronze-age farmer's manual? lol. You fit the description perfectly with that one. This thread will be no use to you.

Ummmmm bye bye.

I dislike religion particularly Christianity because of.
A Contradictory statements left and right over the entire course of the bible.
B Humans can't fathom God so how can anyone know what God would do.
C Also it tells you to pray to Jesus. Shouldn't we praise God?
D I can count the population of Devout Christians on 1 hand. (those who follow the bible word for word)

Forget Religion God is Love and Love is Real.

(also it was written 40 years after the messiahs death and I have a hard time remembering what I ate yesterday)

Originally posted by spaz490
I dislike religion particularly Christianity because of.
A Contradictory statements left and right over the entire course of the bible.
B Humans can't fathom God so how can anyone know what God would do.
C Also it tells you to pray to Jesus. Shouldn't we praise God?
D I can count the population of Devout Christians on 1 hand. (those who follow the bible word for word)

Forget Religion God is Love and Love is Real.

(also it was written 40 years after the messiahs death and I have a hard time remembering what I ate yesterday)

Whew...lol. Where do I begin with you.

A. Please explain the contradictory statements over the entire course of the bible. (Hey your the one that said it.)
B. Humans cannot fathom God? Hmm. I wonder why the word exists then. Next?
C. To have studied the Christian bible at all you would have understood, that Christ was God incarnate. If you do not understand that then you have not studied the bible, thereby completely dismissing your entire understanding of it.
D. You can count the pop. of devout Christians? lol. My, my. That would make you God. So you turned yourself into something you do not believe in. You know, that is as close to irony as it can get.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by Conclusion]

reply to post by Conclusion



I am a non believer, and have no problem with you.

I also have no problem with anyone else who believes.

Why?

Because plain and simple, it does not effect me one way or another if you hear someone talking to you, or take things as that person working in your life. It makes life easier, and I have said repeatedly that my life would be so much more simple and easy if I did believe.

That was not a dig at you or other believers. My brain is just not wired to have blind faith. Which to me is what it would take.

Why? because I have yet to see any god work in any way in my life or another person's.

I went to a religious school, my family was not bible thumpers, but believed well enough. We went to church on a semi regular basis, I know all the stories almost by heart, I know my bible.

I have taken a great number of things from the bible to put towards living my life. These are things that are found in any religion, and pretty much spell out how to live life as a good person.

I never stopped looking. Never. If I get a sign at the end of posting this, I would become a believer. I actively read lessons from all faiths.

On that note, I do not feel bad about not believing in something that could be true. The way I see it is I have lived a good life. I do not go around bashing religions. I don't even have the thoughts of bashing religions. Yes I make jokes, I'm a humorous guy, I know what's funny, but I always take into consideration my audience. (i.e. I wouldn't say a Catholic joke in front of my grandmother)

I ask that you do not lump all non believers into this same category, some of us are good people. I'm aware that may not of been your intention, but it's how it sounded, and is the main reason I am responding.

My other point of responding is to say that, as a non believer, it really is disheartening to see the bashing. Some of your fellow believers open themselves up to it, you have to admit that, same on the other side of the coin too though.

Basically I'm on your side...these bashing threads all together are annoying and unnecessary. Ask questions, don't pick fights.

Edit to add: I am all about keeping everyone honest though, so if you, or any beleiver state something that I can refute, it will happen, but with source material. This thread already is on my radar, I'll be checking in today.

[edit on 2/16/2010 by iamsupermanv2]

First off I would like to state that I do understand why you do not believe. You stopped looking.

I think you'll find I never started in the first place.

I am not religeous because of the hypocritical, self delusional, holier than thou BS that is often spouted. Because of the horrors that have been committed again and again in His name. Because of the oppression of art, and science that has held mankind back millenia and because quite simply because of people like you who constantly tell me how I feel and think or how I should feel or think.

I respect your right to believe, so please respect my right to my views and stop trying to convince everyone else.

I don't care!

Originally posted by spaz490
I dislike religion particularly Christianity because of.
A Contradictory statements left and right over the entire course of the bible.

While this is true, you must understand that the old testament was when the law was handed down. When Jesus came, he integrated those laws to suit their generation. Jesus' main laws were; Love your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and; Love thy neighbor as you love yourself.

B Humans can't fathom God so how can anyone know what God would do.

But we like to think we can.
It is like trying to find out what caused the big bang. We cannot fathom it because we weren't there to observe. But it doesn't mean we still can't try to figure out what was there.

C Also it tells you to pray to Jesus. Shouldn't we praise God?

We pray through Jesus. No one should try and place a throne above their living father. God sent his son to help save us. When Jesus died he was raised to heaven and sat to the right hand of God, not in God's throne. Since we aren't worthy to speak with the creator, we speak with his right hand man to help us.

It is similar to a servant speaking to a king.

D I can count the population of Devout Christians on 1 hand. (those who follow the bible word for word)

Forget Religion God is Love and Love is Real.

I agree, maybe even less.

(also it was written 40 years after the messiahs death and I have a hard time remembering what I ate yesterday)

Well we also have things that stimulate our brains which keep us too busy to remember(TV, games, internet, and etc.) Back in those days, folks had good memories because there wasn't much else to do.

This debate is mostly nonsense and here is why: science is not a metaphysical or ethical discipline. A scientist doesn't develop ethical guidelines or speak about the fundamental metaphysical nature of reality. These are academically the fields of moral and theoretical philosophy. Both disciplines have historically embraced both scientific and religious ideas, and continue to do so. In other words, the people who debate this issue don't seem to have any idea what they're talking about.

The ancients knew better: science has got one role, religion has got another. No, science didn't give us affirmative action or the Egyptian pyramids, because scientists don't work with racism or build with stone blocks. Similarly, priests haven't brought us electricity or computers. Science advances our empirical understanding of reality. Religion offers spirituality, moral guidelines, and community services. Comprende?

Looking at it from this perspective you quickly come to realize that this so called "reason vs. faith" debate is a confused idea about the role of science and religion in society. Only in a progressive world dominated by crowdism could we commit such a mistake, and pretend it's the biggest problem since the Enlightenment.

We are all god like it or not. Were did Jesus go for 30 years?
I'm sure you can find the statements in the bible very easily I currently don't have the time to post a link.

Of course we have a word for God.
However to give him actions and characteristics is incorrect of us in many ways.
Yes the real followers of such a text can be counted on one hand as I'm sure no one is as pure as they should be and most bible humpers just turn out to be hypocrites anyway.
Whats the point of fear in fear you will find no love.
Then why would hell exist?
Why would they say God will forgive all your "sins" and you won't have to worry about going to hell?
Fear

The energy that is used to write these threads that express the displeasure of the alleged hate and persecution towards the wonderful UNchrist-like Christians, could be much better spent in creating a thread that attempts to present a more convincing argument to support your set of beliefs then that from the Bible. The Bible is simply a book written by man, CLAIMING, CLAIMING! to be inspired by a divine being which is FILLED with an alarming amount of contradictions, and absolute absurdities mixed with violence, murder, rape, sexism, racism etc, etc, etc. Spending the energy to open threads where your faith can be supported by ANYTHING, ANYTHING! other than such a book of absolute failure would be a much better option to try to convince others that the faith is nothing more than fairy-tale. Just some courteous advice.

I am a non believer, and have no problem with you. I also have no problem with anyone else who believes. Why? Because plain and simple, it does not effect me one way or another if you hear someone talking to you, or take things as that person working in your life. It makes life easier, and I have said repeatedly that my life would be so much more simple and easy if I did believe.

I understand. You are under the impression that what people do and think does not affect you? I have to disagree with that. The things people believe and do based on those beliefs effects everyone. By the way I do not hear voices. I feel feelings. Yes I agree life would be easier if you believed.

That was not a dig at you or other believers. My brain is just not wired to have blind faith. Which to me is what it would take.

No. I sense no type of hostility from you at all. This thread is for you.

Why? because I have yet to see any god work in any way in my life or another person's. I went to a religious school, my family was not bible thumpers, but believed well enough. We went to church on a semi regular basis, I know all the stories almost by heart, I know my bible.

So you have somewhat of a back ground? Well we have to start somewhere.

I have taken a great number of things from the bible to put towards living my life. These are things that are found in any religion, and pretty much spell out how to live life as a good person.

You have taken them and applied them to your life because you know they are right. Just because you deem a person is good does not make them correct. I will tell you that there is not one good person. Not one.

reply to post by spaz490


For the simple fact to keep people in check. Some people will do whatever they want if they knew there was no hell after. If hell is true, I believe it is doing some good on Earth. So why would you want to take that away? Let people think there is hell. The fear will turn them into better people.

reply to post by concernedcitizan

This debate is mostly nonsense and here is why: science is not a metaphysical or ethical discipline. A scientist doesn't develop ethical guidelines or speak about the fundamental metaphysical nature of reality. These are academically the fields of moral and theoretical philosophy. Both disciplines have historically embraced both scientific and religious ideas, and continue to do so. In other words, the people who debate this issue don't seem to have any idea what they're talking about.

lol. I will agree that science is not an ethical field. I have to disagree with science not speaking about the metaphysical nature of reality. Quantum physics speaks of different dimensions. You can argue that they are just points on a graph to understand why quanta act the way they do, but it is getting out of the bounds of our 3rd dimensional realm. And that, my friend, is opening new boundries which we cannot, for lack of a better term, sense. That is exactly what metaphysical is.

The ancients knew better: science has got one role, religion has got another. No, science didn't give us affirmative action or the Egyptian pyramids, because scientists don't work with racism or build with stone blocks. Similarly, priests haven't brought us electricity or computers. Science advances our empirical understanding of reality. Religion offers spirituality, moral guidelines, and community services. Comprende?

What? Science had nothing to do with the pyramids? You do know that mathematics is considered a science.....right? Science advances our understanding of reality? lol. Only one part of reality Pedro.

ooking at it from this perspective you quickly come to realize that this so called "reason vs. faith" debate is a confused idea about the role of science and religion in society. Only in a progressive world dominated by crowdism could we commit such a mistake, and pretend it's the biggest problem since the Enlightenment.

What about this perspective. Since science has come into play, it seems as if it is speeding up the way which we can harm each other. Now I am not saying that science has not done any good. I am saying that through the use of science mankind has gained the knowledge to completely wipe out everyone. Knowledge does not equal wisdom. Wisdom is the tool to temper knowledge.

reply to post by Conclusion

I understand. You are under the impression that what people do and think does not affect you? I have to disagree with that. The things people believe and do based on those beliefs effects everyone. By the way I do not hear voices. I feel feelings. Yes I agree life would be easier if you believed

Let me explain, I do know that what people do does effect me, but if you are sitting here saying "I am a believer in ___" it doesn't hurt me, it doesn't help me, it is just there. If I wish to inquire more,I will, and hope that you respond in a kind manner.
As for the hearing voices thing, it is a broad term I use, that I should probably ween myself off of. It does have the ability to have a negative connotation that does not fit all people who believe.

I will tell you that there is not one good person. Not one.

I respectfully and with my whole heart mind and soul disagree. I don't know if I have the good person thing down pact, but I know I am on that road. I have known many good people. I have known many terrible people as well. If this is your belief, it is not my place to change your mind, I just hope that that opinion is changed at some point in your life. (look at me, sounding like a crazy believer! lulz)

yes, I have 12 years of Catholic School upbringing. The highschool part of that was spent directly questioning my theology teachers in order to better understand the faith that I was born into. The answers I recieved were not good enough for me to keep it up. I searched on my own more, and still could not find it.
That's just why I take good lessons and apply them. "love thy neighbor" "treat others as you would be treated" nothing wrong with those. Yea I loose sight of it from time to time, but it's part of living to keep yourself in check.

That's what a good person is to me. Someone who strives to just be good to your fellow man, not for the pay off, not because someone says I should, not for the warm fuzzies you get after the fact, but simple because it is the right thing to do.

Is there a conspiracy in your op?

Originally posted by Conclusion
You know who you are. If you do not open yourself to even the slightest possibility that there are things out there that you cannot understand, let alone explain, then you are wasting your time. And the clock is ticking.

That could go both ways, you know. If you are walking around with religious blinders on, you have a very narrow view on everything. Most people who disregard religion do so because they open their eyes and see that there is more out there than they were lead to believe.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by virraszto]

I think you'll find I never started in the first place.

Yes you have not started. I agree. Keep standing there.

I am not religeous because of the hypocritical, self delusional, holier than thou BS that is often spouted. Because of the horrors that have been committed again and again in His name. Because of the oppression of art, and science that has held mankind back millenia and because quite simply because of people like you who constantly tell me how I feel and think or how I should feel or think.

WOW. Would you blame your dad if someone did something horrible in his name? lol. Don't bring someone else's actions as a reason for something you and I both know he would not approve of, just because they said it was in his name. Held back science? Hmmm I wonder what kind of weapons will science have 1000 years from now. Telling you how to think? lol. Please read the OP. When you read something at least try to understand it.

I respect your right to believe, so please respect my right to my views and stop trying to convince everyone else.

LOL. In the OP I clearly stated learn for yourself. Oh by the way what you wrote can also be read like this. Believe what you want. Respect what I believe and stop telling other people things that make them question Me. lol. There is that irony again.

I don't care!

See that is what I am talking about. That one simple statement. You just lied. If you really didn't care you would not have felt the urge to bash this thread. lol. I see through you.

Excellent post! SnF

Sad day in the USA when so many hate Christianity.
As if that isn't bad enough the hate for Jesus himself is just as prevalent.

What does it mean when we don't see this going on with Mohammed, or Budha, or Zeus?

Why don't we hear from the beyond unholy Marilyn Manscum about your own personal Harry Krishna? Never happens because that
is not who the rebellion is against.

How could there be so much hatred for someone who if just a man certainly did nothing to deserve this hate?

Yet there it is.

The ultimate proof that these people are looking for is their own hate.
There so blind they can't see it.
So they can't begin to understand it. The time of the gentiles is over so
go ahead DENY YOUR MAKER.



[edit on 16-2-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by Conclusion


We like technology because it gives us a sure identity and place in society, where we socially are connected through the economic system in which we live. If we were to live a primitive lifestyle close to nature, we'd be more dependent on our mental and physical abilities, opposed to pushing buttons, shuffling papers, administering databases, or driving vehicles. This scares most people, partly because it means they'd have to give up their surrogate activities and break the circle of self-defeatism, partly because we'd expose ourselves to the truth: no one is equal in ability to another individual, and some are better on certain things than others, hence natural selection would regulate our communities. Technology helps to uphold and maintain social constructions known to us as "public truths," because with technology all people are fit for society. You can be a moron and still manage basic functions on a computer, and you may be physically defective, but still be capable of managing bureaucratic tasks in an office. Technology is safety from the uncomfortable reality outside of our industries and companies. This is what we fear.

Contradiction:

God is a being of perfection...God hates sin also coincidently.

God created man with free will...Angels are his servants, but Man is special because of this free will stuff he has.

Explain to me how the morning star became satan while having no free will.

It is impossible, therefore God meant to create Satan for the specific purpose of being who/what he is.

Now, this means that Gods plan with these free willed things was to give them two paths, one to him, the other to Satan...

here is the contradiction. God created a being that has free will, God also understands pain, torture, etc...God created beings to be tortured endlessly without hope of ever getting back into the good graces of God.

Therefore, God is, by his action, evil. The bible states a good and merciful God, but what good and merciful anything creates torture camps for endlessly torturing people whom didnt follow your rules? I dont care if he/she/it gave all but a single person heavenly bliss...to specifically design a system that allows for such actions is simply evil.

Therefore...God is evil, because he is perfect and he knew this would happen with the creation...to bring something conscious into existance only for a eternity of pain, suffering, and endless death.

If Hell exists, then God is evil, if Hell doesn't exist, then there is no biblical God (because the bible refers to it quite alot)