Was communism itself bad, or was it the fact that all the Marxist states were just scams?

True communism would mean the community takes care of itself, without any government. I think that's how it should be.

Of course the Soviet Union just made that a far-off promise, in practice it was a dictatorship little different from Hitler's Germany, same with China today.

I made that exact same comment to my Father about a month ago. I was thinking about the current financial crisis that was caused by Capitalism and wondered whether the communists had it right.

Like the OP said, not the communism we see today but the communism in its truest form. People looking after people.

I think the idea of communism is good - but unfortunately the rich and powerful would always step in to distort it.

So it won't work.

Originally posted by SilentShadow
communism in its truest form. People looking after people.

You cant be looking after anyone if you dont have any resources, funds or energy. You have to help yourself before you help others. Because of the mistaken belief that you can or should look after others first, all Communist countries eventually turn into mass poverty and starvation.

System 1:

Your grandfather built a home with his bear hands and started a business.

Your father continued to run this business effectively and expanded it into other cities.

In a Capitalist state... you inherit the business and are allowed to continue to expand and make profit.

System 2:

Your grandfather built a home with his bear hands and started a business.

Your father continued to run this business effectively and expanded it into other cities.

In a Communist state... the government takes your business and splits it up. Grand-pappy wouldn't be too happy would he?

Thankfully Communism is a dead and dusted system.

Not saying I agree with unregulated corporatism within a capitalist system, we've all seen how that can turn out.

The idea is good in principle.. Indeed the early church even practiced a form of this, dividing property and goods between each other... However much like George Orwell's Animal Farm, the "pigs" always end up taking over, and some people become MORE equal than others.... Human nature doesn't allow communism to work..

Originally posted by kawacat

I think communism could work - it is only distorted by those who have power.

And unfortunately, power rules.

Blaming those in positions of success or authority is a typical call of the communist.

They say "Communism is good in theory", but its not even good in theory for the reasons explained in my first post.

Why does a stewardess in an airplane say "please put on your own oxygen mask before you help your neighbour put on his"?

Think.

Originally posted by kawacat
it will never work

Think positive.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by kawacat
it will never work

Think positive.

It will DEFINITELY never work.

Sorry... couldn't resist.

Originally posted by serbsta
In a Communist state

No need to keep on going from there, you've made a fundamental and common mistake. THERE IS NO STATE IN COMMUNISM. That needed capital letters because no-one ever remembers it.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
Was communism itself bad, or was it the fact that all the Marxist states were just scams?

True communism would mean the community takes care of itself, without any government. I think that's how it should be.

Of course the Soviet Union just made that a far-off promise, in practice it was a dictatorship little different from Hitler's Germany, same with China today.

Oh to live in the land of the 'free' yeah? Your wide sweeping statements about Germany and China are astounding and show your complete ignorance. Here's a test for you in your democratic (rule of the mob)? country. How about you stop paying your taxes to your slave masters and see how long before your slave masters democratically remove 'your car - or did you already give it to the masters by registering it?' then your house (or have you the actual Allodia title for it making it yours?) and when you've handed over everything that you thought was yours then you can get some of that 'free' state benefit? Hitler’s economic Germany was the envy of the world and a blue print of national economic success and prosperity. But, you can't control a world by letting this happen so you feed the beast more and more and then remove the funding and collapse it. This collapse was known as the WII (WI was the precursor/warning to Germany). So now we've established that YOU actually own nothing in your democracy, how about you exercising some of that Free speech say in a School or on the National TV or through the national press? That will be why you’re on here because you have all these other Free Speech outlets that ensure that you’re not arrested under your patriotism act and you can use your Habeas Corpus security blanket?
China like many Asian countries has probably the best record for caring for their aging population and family values actually still exist. You might want to save your pennies, get a passport and go have a look at the real china not the CNN version.
I'm still shocked by the level of ignorance even here on ATS!

No it is not.

You eat what and how much you are allowed to eat.

You listen and watch what you are allowed .

Freedom of speech is basically inexistent. And if you try to speak your mind especially against the present regime you are considered as a traitor of the state. It gets to a point where people around you cover their ears and leave when you even start saying something so they won't be charged with taking part of such.

You don't own anything.

Sometimes you have money but you have nothing to spend them on because you are simply not allowed to.]

No real elections.

People on top will always have everything even more than they have nowadays , people in any category under that , have only some paper that cannot be spent.

And regarding someone who said communism is "one for another" , even though the principle of communism is to get people together and live together as a whole , it does exactly the opposite , it distances people so much and makes some incredibly paranoid. They snitch on eachother and so on.

Romania before 1989.

Originally posted by Fatality
No it is not.

You eat what and how much you are allowed to eat.

You listen and watch what you are allowed .

Freedom of speech is basically inexistent. And if you try to speak your mind especially against the present regime you are considered as a traitor of the state. It gets to a point where people around you cover their ears and leave when you even start saying something so they won't be charged with taking part of such.

You don't own anything.

Sometimes you have money but you have nothing to spend them on because you are simply not allowed to.]

No real elections.

People on top will always have everything even more than they have nowadays , people in any category under that , have only some paper that cannot be spent.

And regarding someone who said communism is "one for another" , even though the principle of communism is to get people together and live together as a whole , it does exactly the opposite , it distances people so much and makes some incredibly paranoid. They snitch on eachother and so on.

Romania before 1989.

I hear ya, its not just the USA that has the problems that you cite most EU countries and the UK have the same regime. When you have two or may be three so called main party's saying the same thing and enforcing the same laws no matter which of them gets in things never change. I guess that's why the USA/UK and the west are in the state that they are in..... By design. Then they (USA)have the audacity to export their terror to other countries and the only country to have ever used weapons of mass destruction in Japan (Twice) against innocent people and hold the world to ransom with their current nuclear weapons. I know its sickening isn’t it. Land of the Free I here?

If the motivation is good than it could work. Unfortunately communism doesn't respect the rights of individuals. That's why it fails. However, let's just say the communist leaders have all the good intentions and manage to balance individual rights, but there will always be that type of people who is too self centered to be a communist, hence at this day and age, it won't work, perhaps some time in the future.