I need help understanding Greater Israel

Is it Biblical to start a greater Israel? I found this en.wikipedia.org...

In the Genesis part it shows this "from the brook of Egypt to the Euphrates" What this means I mean many born agains and zionists are using this to justify imperialism.But I disagree because many of those lands are controlled by people who has their own national identity. If Israel ends up doing imperialism it will be like all the other empires like Napoleon, Adolf Hitler, Alexander the Graet,etc. There's got to be a deeper meaning to this only I can't find it. I myself is born again christian but then because I am born in a country that was victim of imperialism(Phillippines) I end up disagreeing with this. I mean I believe all people should have their own national identity. I believe the path to war and agression is wrong

reply to post by starwarsisreal


Well EVEN if it DOES come true the roman empire fell the british empire is shrinking The USSR was dissolved the americans will be pulling out of iraq and Afghanistan...eventually in short ALL GREAT EMPIRES FALL.

You should ask Dock9 his opinion
He had some interesting points on how the bible says that the "chosen ones" are not allowed to live in Israel until the messiah returns.

reply to post by starwarsisreal


kumusta ka na man? i am rather suspicious that much of the bible has been misinterpreted. and christians down through the ages continue in their beliefs largely on the foundation of previous christian interpretations. maybe thats why they are "christians". there are minor differences like saturday versus sunday as the "day of the lord". emphasis on mary the "mother of god" or not, and so on. personally, i think the statement "no one comes to the father except thru me", refers to a higher state of consciousness called CHRIST rather than a man/god called jesus christ.

in the first few centuries after the death of jesus, a significant meeting took place where it was decided what would be kept in the bible. and what might be changed. i forget exactly where and when. others will no doubt know. so before i became aware of that, i went along believing that "if anyone should change whats in the bible then the plagues mentioned in the bible will be placed on him". but after i left my teens i thought;- "hang on, even if that were true, and someone did alter it and did suffer from plagues, you'd never know if it was altered or not!"

so i dont except that any race of people is more chosen than the rest. and if anyone treats people like they are not worthy, or uses force against them, they are definitely ungodly. just what exactly is meant by the reference to abraham, his son isaac and so on and so on, could be argued for eternity, and would depend on the arguers stance. far right, left, or middle politically.

so be careful of any explanation as it will depend on the authors bias. reach your own conclusion or set the matter aside. whats most important is how close you feel to your god, for god alone is.

reply to post by starwarsisreal


The blue stripes on the Israeli flag are the rivers, Nile and Euphrates. I thought more people knew that.

The Hebrews were kicked out of Egypt originally, they moved north to take over Canaan. If you can find it, get a copy of "The Ring of Power". It explains everything.

The whole thing was started by a maniac. Jew is the religion, the people are Hebrews.

Hmm. I must tell you that i met 1 (as in - one) individual who spoke about greater Israel in the Biblical terms. That is - here in Israel,were concentration of such individuals should be significantly higher then world wide one. There are certainly more then one, but this is fringe minority group never the less.
Extremist Zionists (aka KAH and similar semi-fascist groups) talk "only" about getting Jordan (and maybe Sinai). This is larger group and pretty vocal/violent one, but still a minority. They might have one or two Knesset members. Out of 120, mind you. Most right-wing Zionist movements (Like Likud and moderate religious Zionists) not only gave up "Two Banks has the Jordan – This is ours and, that is as well" principle but even accepted Palestinian independence. Left-wing Zionists from the beginning were very pragmatic and accepted 1948 UN partition plan. Palestinian Arabs who lacked this pragmatism are yet to get their own state.
So as far as i see it there is no major force (at least in Israel) seriously thinking about Biblical borders. There are 7 million Israeli citizens, out of which more then one million are Arabs. Even if completely insane war monger will try to start a war against Egypt/Jordan/Syria/Iraq/Lebanon and will magically capture all of those - how exactly Israel will control those areas? It has problems with occupied Palestinian territories with population 3 times less then that of Israel. But Israel will have no problem controlling Iraq/Egypt... Yeah. Right.

reply to post by daddio


Blue stripes on the flag symbolize this:
www.judaicawebstore.com...
Notice blue stripes?
I thought more people knew that.
Do not know about "Ring of power", but this might help you out:
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by starwarsisreal


As a Christian or even 'merely' as a human examining the evidence . . .

Either the Bible describes the God of Creation, or it doesn't.

If it does, then The God Almighty of Creation

has declared that HE selected a chosen people for His own Glory.

They have been repeatedly jerks and idolators and various types of horrible off and on over the centuries even in Old Testament times.

However, God Almighty has declared that he's going to clean their snotty noses; clean their hearts up and give them the land outlined in Scripture as GREATER ISRAEL in the term used today.

One either believes God Almighty is who He says He is AND that He is well able to bring to pass what He says He WILL DO vis a vis Israel in these END TIMES . . . or one doesn't believe such.

As a Christian, I'd encourage you to believe it.

I've never found it fruitful to argue with nor to disbelieve Almighty God. His Word has proven true in my life over and over and over again.

I have NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that in spite of the AntiChrist and the whole world being against Israel trying to wipe it out of existence, when the dust settles

AFTER ARMAGEDDON,

Israel will be in possession of the land within the boundaries Scripture outlines.

However, after Armageddon, no one disagreeing with God will be left on the planet.

Those who rebel against the whole idea of Almighty God of the Bible are not real thrilled with that idea . . . understandably.

Personally, I believe GOD IS GOING TO DO ALL THAT ESSENTIALLY HIMSELF WITH HIS ANGEL ARMIES.

I personally don't think Christians will have much of a part in cleansing the planet.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by starwarsisreal

 

As a Christian or even 'merely' as a human examining the evidence . . .

Either the Bible describes the God of Creation, or it doesn't.

If it does, then The God Almighty of Creation

has declared that HE selected a chosen people for His own Glory.

They have been repeatedly jerks and idolators and various types of horrible off and on over the centuries even in Old Testament times.

However, God Almighty has declared that he's going to clean their snotty noses; clean their hearts up and give them the land outlined in Scripture as GREATER ISRAEL in the term used today.

One either believes God Almighty is who He says He is AND that He is well able to bring to pass what He says He WILL DO vis a vis Israel in these END TIMES . . . or one doesn't believe such.

As a Christian, I'd encourage you to believe it.

I've never found it fruitful to argue with nor to disbelieve Almighty God. His Word has proven true in my life over and over and over again.

I have NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that in spite of the AntiChrist and the whole world being against Israel trying to wipe it out of existence, when the dust settles

AFTER ARMAGEDDON,

Israel will be in possession of the land within the boundaries Scripture outlines.

However, after Armageddon, no one disagreeing with God will be left on the planet.

Those who rebel against the whole idea of Almighty God of the Bible are not real thrilled with that idea . . . understandably.

Personally, I believe GOD IS GOING TO DO ALL THAT ESSENTIALLY HIMSELF WITH HIS ANGEL ARMIES.

I personally don't think Christians will have much of a part in cleansing the planet.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence the bible however is NOT evidence. That some alien being will come down from the heavens riding a white horse a sword in his right hand, the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse and the vast armies of hell on the other side of the map like one big game of risk quite frankly is ridiculous.

Indeed i dare even go as far to say that your VERY BELIEF in this sort of nonsense is what is dragging America's I.Q. down, you might interpret this as some kind of " attack against your religion " well you would be partially right I am also trying to make you see how RIDICULOUS that whole scenario is. This isn't the matrix sonny jim there is no NEO and there is a spoon GET USED TO IT.

reply to post by rationaluser


well spoken rationaluser.

its a pathetic shame that some christians paint their almighty god as some sort of super egoist. maybe its a case of mine's bigger than yours

" that HE selected a chosen people for His own Glory." unquote.

as if anyone, christian or not, could even begin to comprehend the infinite.

oops, i'm getting off topic

reply to post by rationaluser


The Lord God Almighty has proven HIMSELF AND HIS WORD

extremely extensively in my life over 63 years and counting.

My IQ is genius level.

My high quality earned PhD is no slouch either.

Your rant sounds like the uninformed one.

Many folks in the 1800's predicted Israel's return in fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. Happened in 1948.

Then the prophetic clock really picked up pace.

The tyrannical global government and mark of the beast are all right on the near horizon in the same era as Israel again becoming a nation again in a day as Biblically predicted.

The puzzle pieces have been rushing into place with increasing speed year after year after 1948.

The new Jewish Temple will be rebuilt.

The AntiChrist will overtly step onto the world stage.

The Mark of the Beast will be required to buy or sell.

Ignore the evidence at your peril.

The way I understand it was that the Jewish Torah was written by Moses. This claim though is based on the Talmud written 200-500 CE bc it was against the law to write the Torah. I have also heard that the Jewish texts in their present layout were codified by Maimonides in the 12th century. Some argue that the Torah cannot be found in written form before the 12th century. What does this mean? Does it mean there was not an ethnic Jewish people? Not neccesarily. It does poke holes in the continous Jewish intellectual and cultural tradition that has a right to the holy land. I don't see how anyone can look to these texts, or the Bible for answers from the divine. Maybe the original texts could illumine those with eyes to see, but otherwise they have been so skewed by man to be deemed in my opinion heretical.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Wikipedia, sorry I will never go to that site for anything. And the blue stripes are the rivers, the Zionists want all the land between them.

Has to do with the 6 kings or something like that. Roman numeral VI Kings, aka Vikings. They weren't nordics, they were hebrews.

reply to post by BO XIAN


To me these claims to wich you have not even provided the number of your I.Q. let alone the exrodinary evidence needed to convince me that this "god" is true are little more then the desperate need to "rationalise" your beliefs.

Perhaps you could give me something more than trivial words from a bible indeed if i were to take a copy of the quran i would find some truth in that the same with the torah and the book of mormon heck let's go the whole nine yards and say i could join the cult of scientology and find truth in that.

I'm afraid i'm going to need a little more than subjective evidence for me to believe the tripe you spew from your mouth.

I cannot find the book I read this in, but, the Jewish Israeli thing made abit more sense to me, when I read a story, perhaps it was just a story, that when the tribes gathered and decided to elect a King...

There was great dissention because many believing that G-d was their king, felt that a human form of a King would be Idolatry.. the worship of icons... like the biblical story of the building of the golden ram while moses was up on the mountain...

Anyway, now, when you say "Jewish" there are really a spectrum of divisions... that go all the way from orthodoxy - G-d is our only king to The worship of Golden Bulls - the worship of money.

The term "Chisler" comes from the 17th century, and refers to the removal of a small amount of material from the gold and silver coins of the realm...

[edit on 18-2-2010 by seataka]