Rape? It's the fault of the victims, say 50 per cent of women

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posted on Feb, 22 2010 @ 05:11 AM
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When the guys with the solution of 'just cover it up' come along with that idea I just have to laugh. Knowing that a woman's shape is still visible under a burqa, I can just see the next step beyond the burka: cardboard box under the burqa to hide any shape. But then, you'll have guys who see a draped cardboard box walking down the road and they'll say: "ooh baby let's see what you've got under that box!' because they will instantly know it is a woman, because only women wear cardboard boxes.




posted on Feb, 22 2010 @ 05:23 AM
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reply to post by riley
 


Your the most useless individual I have ever met, I was teaching you statistics and you are using it to reject the statistics I provided, here take this in to account since you are still complaining in regards to ANONYMOUS statistics.



According to the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network (RAINN) Statistics website , there were 247,730 victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault in the United States in 2002. Approximately 87,000 of these were victims of completed rape.
Probability statistics compiled by the National Center for Policy Analysis from Department of Justice statistics reveal that in the U.S. there is a 50.8 percent chance that an arrest will be made if a rape is reported. Eighty percent of those arrested for rape are prosecuted and 58 percent of those prosecuted are convicted. If there is a conviction, there is a 69 percent chance that the perpetrator will be jailed.
In 2001, only 39 percent of rapes and sexual assaults in the U.S. were reported to police. When unreported rapes are taken into account, it is estimated that only 6 percent of U.S. rapists (one out of 16) will ever spend a day in jail.

In the US only 39 % was reported, do you know what that means? In countries such as Saudi Arabia firstly it is extremely hard to rape, because a relative is always present with females, that law is created solely to tackle rape issues which is a big concern all over the world.

See if there is always a relative with you then surely there will be a legitimate and credible witness.

Even in Western states if intentional false accusations are made, the accused can turn the supposed victim in to a victim again. It is the same in Saudi Arabia, that doesn't mean people won't report rape lol.

To tell you the truth people are not afraid of getting punished for getting raped as you fantasise in your dreams, they don't report because of shame, and that is the same in Western nations. Heck only 39% reported in 2001. That was the peak of the American Empire.

I know why you don't want to examine other statistics, it is alright to be a stuckup nationalist and believe everything is handy dandy where you came from. That just means you have to dig a hole in the sand and stick your head in it.

I'm talking from experience, I used to be just like you..\

Wait Wait not finished Yet..

Saudi Arabia:


Assaults 13,864 [21st of 49]
Burglaries 14 [36th of 38]
Car thefts 18,717 [18th of 46]
Executions 143 executions [3rd of 22]
Illicit drugs
death penalty for traffickers; improving anti-money-laundering legislation and enforcement
Jails 104 [16th of 80]
Kidnappings 107 kidnappings [15th of 39]
Manslaughters 53 [19th of 42]
Murders 202 [28th of 49]
Prisoners 28,612 prisoners [19th of 168]
Prisoners > Female 6.6% [20th of 134]
Prisoners > Foreign prisoners 50.9% [6th of 86]
Prisoners > Per capita 110 per 100,000 people [79th of 164]
Rapes 59 [44th of 50]
Robberies 598 [54th of 47]
Software piracy rate 51% [70th of 107]
Total crimes 84,599 [32nd of 50]


The Great America:


Assault victims 1.2% [11th of 20]
Car thefts 1,246,096 [1st of 46]
Drug offences 560.1 per 100,000 people [4th of 46]
Executions 42 executions [5th of 22]
Gun violence > Homicides > % homicides with firearms 39.5604 [7th of 32]
Illicit drugs
world's largest consumer of coc aine (shipped from Colombia through Mexico and the Caribbean), Colombian heroin, and Mexican heroin and marijuana; major consumer of ecstasy and Mexican methamphetamine; minor consumer of high-quality Southeast Asian heroin; illicit producer of cannabis, marijuana, depressants, stimulants, hallucinogens, and methamphetamine; money-laundering center
Murders 16,204 [2nd of 49]
Murders with firearms 9,369 [1st of 36]
Perception of safety > Walking in dark 82% [2nd of 15]
Police 941,139 [1st of 47]
Prisoners 2,019,234 prisoners [1st of 168]
Prisoners > Per capita 715 per 100,000 people [1st of 164]
Rape victims 0.4% [13th of 20]
Rapes 95,136 [1st of 50]
Robberies 420,637 [2nd of 47]
Software piracy rate 20% [107th of 107]
Suicide rates in ages 15-24 13.7 per 100,000 people [7th of 17]
Suicide rates in ages 25-34 15.3 per 100,000 people [10th of 17]
Total crime victims 21.1% [15th of 20]
Total crimes 11,877,218 [1st of 50]

Even Iran is doing way better than the Western nations in keeping civility

Let's blame the terrorists ..

[edit on 22-2-2010 by oozyism]



posted on Feb, 22 2010 @ 05:24 AM
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When the guys with the solution of 'just cover it up' come along with that idea I just have to laugh. Knowing that a woman's shape is still visible under a burqa, I can just see the next step beyond the burka: cardboard box under the burqa to hide any shape. But then, you'll have guys who see a draped cardboard box walking down the road and they'll say: "ooh baby let's see what you've got under that box!' because they will instantly know it is a woman, because only women wear cardboard boxes.
reply to post by novacs4me
 


So true.....here's a thought: let's just blind all the men! that way they can see the women, and keep control of their sexual feelings.....


(that was sarcastic, by the way)



posted on Feb, 22 2010 @ 05:33 AM
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Originally posted by smyleegrl

So true.....here's a thought: let's just blind all the men! that way they can see the women, and keep control of their sexual feelings.....

(that was sarcastic, by the way)

I can just see it now: A blind guy bumping into a cardboard box, getting all turned on... Then her 'escort', also blind, tries to fend him off... Monty Python, anyone?



posted on Feb, 22 2010 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 
You can keep your 'civility'. I'll take my chances in a free country. As I have said MANY times before, when you see women seeking asylum in droves in Iran and Saudi Arabia, then you will have proved how wonderful those cultures are to women.



posted on Feb, 22 2010 @ 05:41 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Feb, 22 2010 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by novacs4me
reply to post by oozyism
 
You can keep your 'civility'. I'll take my chances in a free country. As I have said MANY times before, when you see women seeking asylum in droves in Iran and Saudi Arabia, then you will have proved how wonderful those cultures are to women.


HEHE we are comparing a world super power, to one of the world super power administered nation Saudi Arabia which is well known for torture etc etc.

The difference is Saudis don't lie, yeah they are hardcore Muslims who are against lying, but Western nations lie, they learn it in Schools and Universities, hence Politics etc..

One thing you should have known by now since you seem to be around ATS long enough, is that people who are lied to live in a dream world. The Saudis will tell you exactly how it is, they will torture you if they have to lol, they got those punishments there and they are not ashamed of it. But the US of America, and its allies, ohh god, I'm telling you of personal experience here, see before I came to New Zealand all I heard about it was good stuff ^^

I never heard anything bad in regards, go to Internet and see some nice peaceful pictures. Well since I been here from outside it looks like a dream world, I found out two years after my arrival that it was all orchestrated, it was fake, it was designed to be how it was so the New Zealand tourism industry can flourish.

Now let me tell you how it really is where I live lol, I will make it very simple, you put a packet of sigies in your car, come back, the sigie is gone, but more importantly your window is broken which is worth 10x more than that.

It's all fake, yeah sure you can find wonderful places in New Zealand with no crime etc etc, but you can find that in Saudi Arabia too, they got beaches for Women
If you got money you can do what ever you want, if you don't go hang yourself, it is the same everywhere, it is not an issue of women and men, women in Saudi Arabia can be as cruel as men, yeah I know if they are poor they are way more likely to be victims of what so not, and if they are connected political they have way more chance of not being victims of what so not.

But then again a discussion forums are to discuss issues, not to make fun of them.

Want to go BelowTopSecret and start a rant, see who is better



posted on Feb, 22 2010 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by riley
 


Your the most useless individual I have ever met, I was teaching you statistics and you are using it to reject the statistics I provided,

You posted government sources statistics and presented them as anonymous when they were based on police reports. You tried to decieve.


here take this in to account since you are still complaining in regards to ANONYMOUS statistics.



According to the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network (RAINN) Statistics website , there were 247,730 victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault in the United States in 2002. Approximately 87,000 of these were victims of completed rape.
Probability statistics compiled by the National Center for Policy Analysis from Department of Justice statistics reveal that in the U.S. there is a 50.8 percent chance that an arrest will be made if a rape is reported. Eighty percent of those arrested for rape are prosecuted and 58 percent of those prosecuted are convicted. If there is a conviction, there is a 69 percent chance that the perpetrator will be jailed.
In 2001, only 39 percent of rapes and sexual assaults in the U.S. were reported to police. When unreported rapes are taken into account, it is estimated that only 6 percent of U.S. rapists (one out of 16) will ever spend a day in jail.

In the US only 39 % was reported, do you know what that means? In countries such as Saudi Arabia firstly it is extremely hard to rape, because a relative is always present with females, that law is created solely to tackle rape issues which is a big concern all over the world.

See if there is always a relative with you then surely there will be a legitimate and credible witness.

1. Relatives can rape too.
2. Just because a woman does not have an escort does not mean she deserves to get raped.

3. So relatives would stand around and WATCH their daughter/mother/sister get raped would they? and if they are not around she must be punnished/whipped for that? That is truly barbarac. Do not pretend treating women like pets that need leashes is a moral thing to do.. I do not see why you would be proud that women aren't allowed to take a walk by themselves. If you think that invites rape your men must really have problems.

.. and most women would NOT report rapes in a country where they punnish the rape victims.


Even in Western states if intentional false accusations are made, the accused can turn the supposed victim in to a victim again. It is the same in Saudi Arabia, that doesn't mean people won't report rape lol.

In Saudi Arabia a woman can get flogged or jailed for getting raped.. everyone knows this so to try say that thats somehow morally okay is disgusting. Do not pretend they are getting punnished for lieing.. nothing about those articles suggested they were false accusations.. and given a woman needs four male witnesses her chances of getting justice would be very low.


To tell you the truth people are not afraid of getting punished for getting raped as you fantasise in your dreams, they don't report because of shame, and that is the same in Western nations. Heck only 39% reported in 2001. That was the peak of the American Empire.

Wtf? I "fantasize" about people being afraid to come forward?

Families kill their own daughters if they get raped. Being ashamed is nothing cmpared to fearing for their own life.


I know why you don't want to examine other statistics, it is alright to be a stuckup nationalist and believe everything is handy dandy where you came from. That just means you have to dig a hole in the sand and stick your head in it.

You said the stats you posted proved raoe happened less in non western countries. I said rape stats would reflect a lack of reporting so you claimed that you were posting anoymous stats.

Then you posted stats based on reported rapes and I DID look at those stats.. they did NOT back up your claims.


I'm talking from experience, I used to be just like you..\

Wait Wait not finished Yet..

Saudi Arabia:


Assaults 13,864 [21st of 49]
Burglaries 14 [36th of 38]
Car thefts 18,717 [18th of 46]
Executions 143 executions [3rd of 22]
Illicit drugs
death penalty for traffickers; improving anti-money-laundering legislation and enforcement
Jails 104 [16th of 80]
Kidnappings 107 kidnappings [15th of 39]
Manslaughters 53 [19th of 42]
Murders 202 [28th of 49]
Prisoners 28,612 prisoners [19th of 168]
Prisoners > Female 6.6% [20th of 134]
Prisoners > Foreign prisoners 50.9% [6th of 86]
Prisoners > Per capita 110 per 100,000 people [79th of 164]
Rapes 59 [44th of 50]
Robberies 598 [54th of 47]
Software piracy rate 51% [70th of 107]
Total crimes 84,599 [32nd of 50]


The Great America:


Assault victims 1.2% [11th of 20]
Car thefts 1,246,096 [1st of 46]
Drug offences 560.1 per 100,000 people [4th of 46]
Executions 42 executions [5th of 22]
Gun violence > Homicides > % homicides with firearms 39.5604 [7th of 32]
Illicit drugs
world's largest consumer of coc aine (shipped from Colombia through Mexico and the Caribbean), Colombian heroin, and Mexican heroin and marijuana; major consumer of ecstasy and Mexican methamphetamine; minor consumer of high-quality Southeast Asian heroin; illicit producer of cannabis, marijuana, depressants, stimulants, hallucinogens, and methamphetamine; money-laundering center
Murders 16,204 [2nd of 49]
Murders with firearms 9,369 [1st of 36]
Perception of safety > Walking in dark 82% [2nd of 15]
Police 941,139 [1st of 47]
Prisoners 2,019,234 prisoners [1st of 168]
Prisoners > Per capita 715 per 100,000 people [1st of 164]
Rape victims 0.4% [13th of 20]
Rapes 95,136 [1st of 50]
Robberies 420,637 [2nd of 47]
Software piracy rate 20% [107th of 107]
Suicide rates in ages 15-24 13.7 per 100,000 people [7th of 17]
Suicide rates in ages 25-34 15.3 per 100,000 people [10th of 17]
Total crime victims 21.1% [15th of 20]
Total crimes 11,877,218 [1st of 50]

Even Iran is doing way better than the Western nations in keeping civility

Let's blame the terrorists ..

[edit on 22-2-2010 by oozyism]

Why the hell are you posting that crap for? It has nothing to do with the subject. Why do you keep saying "lets blame the terrorists"? Take your anti-western hate elsewhere.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by riley]



posted on Feb, 22 2010 @ 07:12 AM
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Hello all, I have decided to return to this thread after having a well-deserved break. It appears that some people are finding it very difficult to separate emotion from common sense and reason on this issue. Of course everyone is free to view the issue how they see fit, but ignoring reason and logic will not reduce the very real danger women already face.

BOLD TEXT
Rape is wrong. Rape is not acceptable behaviour. The victim is NOT responsible for rape. Every person has the right to say NO or STOP at any time and at any stage if they feel uncomfortable. Taking advantage of those under the influence of substances is wrong and is no excuse to committee rape.

You will find that these comments are repeated over and over again throughout this thread. They are not just thrown in there to appease, they are said with sincerity and honesty.

Now try to keep that mind when I show you the following images. Many of us have tried to explain the message behind these words but have been condemned and given negative labels for doing so. Thus, I will try to illustrate them through visual means.

Image One

Image Two

This is not a lecture on how women should and should not dress. I am just trying to illustrate that the first image (Image One) shows women dressing in clothes that are unlikely to draw attention from the wrong people. The second image (Image Two) shows women dressing in clothes that are likely to draw attention from the wrong people.

Before you get ready to flame me, please go read the BOLD TEXT above. NONE of the women in these photos deserve to be harmed based on their clothing. But to suggest some are not making themselves more of a target is ignoring reality. Ignoring reality on this issue means more women will face more dangers.

[edit on 22/2/2010 by Dark Ghost]



posted on Feb, 22 2010 @ 08:01 AM
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A few years ago, my employer required me to attend a basic self defence training course.

As part of this training, we were shown a film where a group of male prison inmates who had been convicted of mugging (bear with me), were shown a collection of photo's of varying individuals and asked to identify which ones where deemed potential targets and which were deemed to risky too attack.

The results were startling! Big, burly men were listed as potential targets, as were young males, young and old females and even those in groups. But there were women who were not listed as targets, women dressed in a variety of ways, with or without 'running shoes', all ages.

When the test group were asked how and why they selected their victims, the researchers found that the potential attacker assessed the potential victim by body language that had nothing to do with attire.

The targets were always those who projected uncertainty, timidity, nervousness or any other form of vulnerability. The 'rejects' all displayed confidence and were therefore not deemed potential victims.

[edit on 22/2/2010 by teapot]

[edit on 22/2/2010 by teapot]



posted on Feb, 22 2010 @ 08:26 AM
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When the test group were asked how and why they selected their victims, the researchers found that the potential attacker assessed the potential victim by body language that had nothing to do with attire.
reply to post by teapot
 


So true.

If you walk around with a fearful demeanor, head down, avoiding eye contact, then you are likely to be considered an easy mark.

When you walk, LOOK PEOPLE IN THE EYE. This can be the biggest determinat for an attack....because the only reasons people tend to look others in the eye is for emotional connection (i.e.....intimate relationship) or as an act of aggression (i.e......the parent "stare" that makes you admit you screwed up.

Act confident, even if you have to fake it. Pretty soon, you won't be faking it any more.



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism


Check out the rape statistics in Western countries compared to others...


do you count South Africa among the western countries?

if you have a solution
(that doesn't involve women giving in and might actually work in an at least statistically provable fashion), let's try it right there. a stress test for sure, but hey if you're so sure about your solutions as you seem to be....

to top it off, you guys are sounding like sanctimonious central planning advocates: let's propose something that doesn't hold water even under moist conditions and if it fails, make it stricter - more of the same, so to speak.

what i'm talking about? IF women in general adopted an outfit you'd consider adequate, it would predictably fail and you'd come back within the decade asking for more restrictions....

there's another interesting parallel: the central planner's motto is one size fits all, isn't it? how can i even dare to think that everyone is living under different conditions and that precautionary measures, which you all seem to be suddenly very fond of (when it affects somebody else and not you!) would have to be adapted to the situation of every woman under potential threat. (like living and breathing y'know)


PS: don't give me that c*** line about untainted cultures, there are differences, namely whether you live in an anonymous society or a tightly knit village.... now both have their pros and cons, but one thing i know is that criminals of the openly violent kind tend to value their anonymity.

can you make us all 'go back' to our small, idyllic villages where everybody knows one another personally?? no? thought so, therefore please spare us the baseless advice, it'll be very much appreciated. the implicit condonement which is shown here is mildly disturbing, imho, because if these sentiments are genuine, a sizable portion of the population is comprised of criminals in various shades. Now that's a CT of epic proportions, isn't it?




Originally posted by oozyism

Your the most useless individual I have ever met, I was teaching you statistics and you are using it to reject the statistics I provided, here take this in to account since you are still complaining in regards to ANONYMOUS statistics.


dude, you're starting to worry me. do you even have the slightest hint of a clue what women in Saudi Arabia have to live with? what about literacy rate? what about uninvited contact with strangers, what about your statistics? these women are treated as sub-humans yet you insist they'd participate in anonymous surveys (which would of course eliminate the illiterates) and be successful at concealing that participation in an environment of total surveillance and no opportunity to move freely or at all for that matter.

if you're so in love with totalitarian dictatorships, why don't you just send the White House some threat mail, to get some hands-on experience so to speak, and spend the rest of your life humping a straight jacket in camp gizmo, err, gitmo
no, of course you didn't mean it that way, right, and i'm a canary typing on a tiiiny keypad. nope. forget it.



then this


Originally posted by oozyism


The difference is Saudis don't lie, yeah they are hardcore Muslims who are against lying, but Western nations lie, they learn it in Schools and Universities, hence Politics etc..


err, LOL? lying is now a university course, MSc Liar anyone? the sharia club people are saints by comparison, right? wait, you know that these filthy slugs will fly to dubai and visit the first best brothel, don't you? that is when they don't just rape their female guest sla.. errm workers. oh and of course it looks like you really wouldn't even need to fake that threat letter to the white house i talked about. just go ahead then, it's a win-win situation!


[edit on 2010.2.23 by Long Lance]



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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Whatever she is wearing and no matter what she is doing, there is no excuse for the crime of rape. No means NO, and it means NO whatever a person has said or done before the saying of it. It means NO whatever they are wearing. It means NO whatever they have been drinking. It means NO if their state of mind is altered. It means NO if they have flirted. It means NO if they are walking late at night alone. It means NO if they have previously said yes but changed their mind. If you are in the middle of it and someone says "STOP", that means STOP.

I really do not understand how anyone could say that rape is the fault of, or even partially the fault of the victim.

No means no and stop means stop. No matter at what point they are said they mean the same.

You people who advocate that women are to blame for rape might as well be saying that children are to blame for abuse. You might not like that analogy but it is the same.

I'm fairly certain that pedophiles can come up with the same arguments. They dressed "provocatively". They "led me on". They "were asking for it."

Would you accept their excuses?

No - it's not different. No one deserves abuse or rape. NO ONE. And the only person to blame is the abuser or rapist.



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by AngelInterceptor
 


Sorry, but no. Ok ? NO

Stop that opinion of yours in its tracks, right there !

NO ! You are wrong ! Your opinion is WRONG !

STOP ! Stop thinking as you do ! STOP !


No use claiming others opinions have inflamed your sensibilities !

That's NO excuse, you hear !

Don't try to wriggle out of responsibility for your opinions just because people here might have encouraged you to believe you're part of the majority !

NO ! STOP ! Back off ! Put your opinion away !

Mind rapist !



(did you believe you were being encouraged by the OP and other posts to participate in this thread ? Is that your excuse ? Well, that's NO excuse, is it -- based on your logic )



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Dock9Words



I have only two words.

Huh? What?



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by AngelInterceptor
 


And I have two words also:

Think about it



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by AngelInterceptor
 


And I have two words also:

Think about it


Counting, not your strong suit. I get it.



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by Dock9
 


Wow,I'm not touching that subject! That's a minefield for anyone taking it on.



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by Dock9
 


I think I see what you are getting at here, but the difference is an opinion is not a crime, it is not an assault and it is not even comparable to rape.

I do wonder though, due to your post. Does this mean that you disagree with the idea that NO means NO! no matter the circumstances when it comes to sexual acts?



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by Dock9
 


Wow - time to back up and consider your own words.

Your's is an opinion, as is everyone else. You have a right to yours, just as everyone else has a right to theirs. There is no right or wrong here, except that we've all agreed (yes, every single person posting in this thread has agreed) that rape is wrong.

The gray area, the debate in this thread, is about the degrees to which people are willing to judge the actions of another.

You don't have the right to tell someone else their opinion is wrong! Stop it.





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