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david icke victim of mind control?

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posted on May, 29 2004 @ 01:01 PM
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Arizona Wilder is a woman who gave David Icke extrordinary (mis?)information, he even changed some of his book based on what she told him, so says Ivan Fraser. But who is Ivan Fraser? I found this on the net.

www.thetruthseeker.co.uk...

but on the net it's so full of attention seekers it hard to know who is bull#ting who.


My suspicions about Arizona Wilder (AW) first manifested the first time I heard of her. Something in me said, ?something isn?t right here?. A familiar feeling which usually turns out to be trustworthy, as anyone who has read Lifting The Veil knows.

She was not mentioned at all in the draft copy of The Biggest Secret (TBS) which I had read. David had not met her yet. When the book was released people started ringing me with questions like, ?is it true about the reptiles?, and ?is this stuff about the royal family true?. At which time I replied that I thought it was, based on the fact that the version I had read stated only the theory of the reptilians and that certain of the Royals were involved in Satanic rituals.

Soon I heard about Arizona Wilder. I reviewed the book again, this time the printed version, and asked Linda Icke (the British manager of Bridge of Love) to send a copy of the video from which AW?s testimony was taken. I was by this time very dubious about AW?s statements. Her statements had already overshadowed those of Christine Fitzgerald, Princess Diana?s healer and confidante, which were prominent in the version I read and which were not so sensational. However, Fitzgerald?s account may have been a ?taster? for what was to come, to ease the way for the far more incredible information which Wilder had to impart.


I'm not sure if any of you have seen the video that icke interviews AW in, it's called Mother Goddess, you can probably find it on Soul Seek.
I was believing this guy total but then he had a pendulm truth seeker thing going on and that kinda made me laugh.

Ivan also says that icke had a contact by the name of Brian Desborough who he gets most of his information from and who just happened to introduce him to Arizona. In the book Icke mentions Desborough as a source for the majority of his information.

Arizona Wilder also claims that the Royal family are shape shifters, also that Sitchin and Gardner are reptoids.


Then she targeted Sitchin and Gardner and said they take part in blood rituals with the Royals where shapeshifting happens. Considering Gardner?s books are revealing profound insights into the ancient knowledge, I am not surprised they wanted him demonised. I personally do not believe this testimony. I do however, think that Sitchin has been less than honest in his research, but again, the statement that he takes part in murderous rituals is more than I will accept without some pretty firm proof. But proof is offered nowhere in relation to AW?s testimony.

She states the royal lizards change back to lizards when asleep. Considering how many of them were educated in schools where they also lived amongst hundreds of others in dorms, and how many of them were in the armed forces, you would think someone would have noticed this little thing!


So what do you think, AW lying by the seat of her pants? Is David under some sort of reptilian mind control now? Or is this Ivan guy just bored?




posted on May, 29 2004 @ 08:26 PM
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Well i don't really know what to make of icke anymore, startin to think hes lost the plot a bit. Started out ok , but now , shapeshifters and reptoids for gods sake, cmon wake up david. I feel for the man i really do.



posted on May, 29 2004 @ 10:16 PM
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Yeah, when I watched that video, my bull# detector went of like mad.

Theres so much wrong with the video, the interview and the woman, that it made me listen even less to anything David had to say and put a whole lot of information his books, video's and conferences led to back on the "to be checked" list.

I never actualy listened to the story he tells, I just read and witched it to find resources for further study.

What I'm afraid of now is that maybe he does have something valuable to say, but because of the bad info hes being given and hes passing on, his credibility has gone from a truth seeker to that of a crackpot kook.



posted on May, 29 2004 @ 10:17 PM
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More like a victem of 'OUT OF THE MIND CONTROL'.....or extreme loss thereof origonal title.....

Actually, within my understanding of quantum mechanics, shape shifting SHOULD be plausable.............possible even.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 12:51 AM
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Good post Lysergic.
I've read many of David Icke's books and have seen people who are as he describes (except for the reptilian shapechanging). Hell, I was married to someone who worked for a well known member of the Illuminati (or, as they call themselves, the Olympians). I have to get a copy of this video to see for myself what you are describing.
I need to find out who is telling the truth. Icke, Wilder, Fraser or Desborough. Personally I will stick with Icke since his research is usually top notch. However, I am open to suggestions providing collobrating information is included.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 01:10 AM
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I personally think none of them are telling the truth. Some of their ideas might actually be true, but I'm sure they made them up. All I have to say is this: the books keep selling. Maybe thats why they say what they say, hmm?



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 01:35 AM
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Reported Symptoms

1. Microwave hearing
2. Transmission of specific commands into the subconscious
3. Visual disturbances, visual hallucinations
4. Inject words, numbers into brain via electromagnetic radiation waves
5. Manipulation of emotions
6. Reading thoughts remotely
7. Causing pain to any nerve of the body.
8. Remote manipulation of human behavior from space
9. Harassment, stress symptoms such as helicopters flying overhead
10. Seeing, as in a camera, through your eyes, i.e. to see what you see exactly
11. Control of sleep patterns.
12. Computer-brain interface, control and communication
13. Complex control of the brain such as retrieving memories, implanting personalities


Perhaps Arizona Wilder is still undermind control and maybe some how got Icke under mind control through a different means?


Symptom
1. Microwave hearing. The hearing of voices in the head from an outside source, but nobody else can hear the voices except the targeted individual.

Published Evidence
A. Ultrascience III, Spies are us. Featured Dr. James C. Lin, Ph.D.. biomedical and electrical engineer, educator, author of Microwave Auditory Effects and Applications, 1978. Lin demonstrated microwave hearing, a symptom of many of the victims, hearing voices. Also featured Cheryl Welsh on the issue of mind control experimentation.

B. International Defense Review, 3-1-1993, Special Operations Survives Pentagon budget Constraints, by Ramon Lopez.

?JASORS, Joint Advanced Special Operations Radio System is being developed by Harris Corporation. ...is a very ambitious, leading-edge technology program, ...Whiles JASORS is a near-term SOF, [Special Operations Forces] enhancement, SORDAC, [Special Operations Research Development and Acquisition Center], is also investigating long-range (1998-2010) and ?far-future? (2011 and beyond) weaponry and support equipment. [SORDAC?s director, Army Colonel Douglas J.] Richardson said one far-future communications system being investigated is ?synthetic telepathy.? One day, SOF commandos may be capable of communicating through thought processes.?


This explains the symptoms of the mindcontrol in greater detail the link below will go over each symptom.
What do you, could it be possible? Maybe there are no reptoids but he is still being mind control to believe there is?




educate-yourself.org...


2 more links about internal and external effects of mind control


The external symptoms of current day mind control include:

- Noisy telephones and many wrong number calls
- Frequent movement of household and workplace items so that the target
knows this has been done by an intruder but cannot prove it. Skewing
of furniture and bedding is common.
- Sabotage of possessions at home, in the car, and at work, so they
become useless far sooner than their normal life. Some appliances will
remain non-functional for some weeks or months, then suddenly "fix
themselves"
- Ongoing theft of small dollar value possessions, sometimes with the
item being returned to where it was stolen from
- Theft of personal papers and records, particularly those which the
target doesn't access often
- Sabotage of tools and work in progress at the workplace
- Computers at home and the workplace are chronically erratic and don't
work as designed
- Emails and postal mail blocked or delayed
- Tradesmen frequently arrive late, have to be pushed to accomplish their
work, make far more noise than necesssary, make a terrible mess, break
something else, botch their job, and overcharge
- The targetted person finds stores always crowded
- The targetted person often finds their car blocked by other vehicles
- The targetted person often finds the product they like out of stock
- Instances of being blocked while walking or driving are far, FAR
above what statistics would allow
- Neighbors turn inexplicably noisy or unfriendly at inconvenient times,
such as a meal or bed time, and especially when trying to nap


www.raven1.net...

www.raven1.net...

Or perhaps he's been a target of '___' Mindkontrol?
www.parascope.com...

The CIA knows how to party.

The CIA's '___' experiments were conducted on many unwitting subjects, most often prisoners or patrons of brothels set up and run by the Agency, which had installed two-way mirrors in the establishments to allow for observation of the drug's effects (these studies were referred to as "Operation Midnight Climax"). Some of the MKULTRA subjects who were informed faced even more inhumane treatment: during one experiment in Kentucky, seven volunteers were given '___' for 77 days straight.


'___' can be very powerful when it comes to toying with the mind '___' can be so unpredictable. MKULTRA was something to remember, one of the agents cried when he came down, he didn't want it to end. I mean hell the CIA were slipping it to eachother just to see the effects of people not knowing they've been giving something.


One 1955 MKULTRA document gives an indication of the size and range of the effort; the memo refers to the study of an assortment of mind-altering substances which would:


"promote illogical thinking and impulsiveness to the point where the recipient would be discredited in public"


"increase the efficiency of mentation and perception"


"prevent or counteract the intoxicating effect of alcohol"


"promote the intoxicating effect of alcohol"


"produce the signs and symptoms of recognized diseases in a reversible way so that they may be used for malingering, etc."


"render the indication of hypnosis easier or otherwise enhance its usefulness"


"enhance the ability of individuals to withstand privation, torture and coercion during interrogation and so-called 'brainwashing'"


"produce amnesia for events preceding and during their use"


"produc[e] shock and confusion over extended periods of time and capable of surreptitious use"


"produce physical disablement such as paralysis of the legs, acute anemia, etc."


"produce 'pure' euphoria with no subsequent let-down"


"alter personality structure in such a way that the tendency of the recipient to become dependent upon another person is enhanced"


"cause mental confusion of such a type that the individual under its influence will find it difficult to maintain a fabrication under questioning"


"lower the ambition and general working efficiency of men when administered in undetectable amounts"


"promote weakness or distortion of the eyesight or hearing faculties, preferably without permanent effects"


I mean just look at all these effects, you could traumatize someone on it easily, especially if they never exprienced it before, you'd think you lost your mind. Maybe you feel it's a dream? Maybe they'd enjoy it? Who knows, but if you were being questioned under it, that would be horrible. I think the programing of a mind would be possible with the use of lsd, over a period of time though. You'd be able to create a new reality and even rebuild the personality.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 12:07 PM
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Hi everyone,

I've read what you said about Mind-Control. I've found today a PSYOP software project develloped by Thales. I hope this will enlight you about PSYOP/Mind-Control :

The original page is in english, but I'll give you a short translation of the stuff :


PSYOPS - PY AUTOMATION software : Automatic Arguments Search :

Project realized by PY-AUTOMATION softwares for Thales group !

www.thalesgroup.com...


The project is the devellopement of a software allowing to generate automatically an arguments listing usable in PSYOPS operations (In fact, PSYOP mean Psychological Operations) to bring an audience to a "wanted effect", following the PERELMAN (Belgian Philosophe) method, wich consist into taking in charge values of the audience (Qualities, defects, Believes, Religion...)

In our case, the audience is composed of fighters

Objective :

To demonstrate that it's possible to automatically generate arguments for an audience, taking in charge values of this audience.


Original page (for example if you want to make you're own translation, I know my english is pretty bad :@@
:

www.py-automation.com...

And also,, about the Belgian philosophe :

Chaim PERELMAN : www.lcc.gatech.edu...

[Edited on 30-5-2004 by Nans DESMICHELS]



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 12:12 PM
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You know what I think about Icke, the guy might have been onto something at the start, then they thought "Hey, let's turn him into a complete joke and the biggest disinformation agent, ever...", seeing as he was getting some attention.

And now Icke believes in shape-shifting reptiles and a hollow earth...



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 12:22 PM
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Holograms and PSYOPS :

www.geocities.com...

Psyops :

www.peace.ca...



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by m0rbid
You know what I think about Icke, the guy might have been onto something at the start, then they thought "Hey, let's turn him into a complete joke and the biggest disinformation agent, ever...", seeing as he was getting some attention.

And now Icke believes in shape-shifting reptiles and a hollow earth...


Or perhaps there is something much, much more sinister going on. Maybe there are not shapeshifting reptile aliens, maybe is something more unnerving?
I think Icke at the core has a pretty good idea of wtf is going on. Now I don't remember if Icke talked about any lizards before Arizona as that video is fairly old. I know he said he had people come up to him and tell him #ed up # about things shapeshifting before him and he said they were all so similar, thus he started to believe it himself.
I ask this though, could it not be that these people were figments of his mind? Perhaps through a mind control program of some sorts he had false memories injected in the brain to recall all these oh so important events?



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 01:55 PM
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Something that never ceases to amaze me with all these so called Truthtellers!! ie Icke, Chiappalone they always go on about about how they must spread the word, but, have you seen the price of their books LOL, that says it ALL my friends. Makin money out of peoples fears and insecurity. The world has always been a mystery, and no man will ever explain that. But the truth weighs very heavy on the mind, And people like them just can't handle it. Btw just my opinion



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 02:27 PM
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Well I've have yet to buy any of his wares, I can tell you that he talks a lot about mind control, and why does he never question that he could become a target of this? Perhaps he is bull#ting everyone, but I feel that HE thinks HE has found some sort of truth.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 02:47 PM
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On a completely serious note, schizophrenia (paranoid psychosis) would explain it completely.

I was married to a paranoid schizophrenic at one time, and it was quite an experience. His delusions stemmed from one particular story by Lovecraft and he most sincerely believed that one of our friends was in contact with the Elder Gods and was lining up victims to be fed to the Elder Gods. His belief system was systematic and logical -- and at one point, I thought that I was the crazy one and he was absolutely right.

His logical delusions got stranger and stranger -- he finally divorced me on the grounds he "couldn't live with me" (though he told me that he knew I had fallen under the influence of Nyarlhotep and the only way to deal with me was to kill me or divorce me and so he was going to divorce me and this would be the last I'd ever see of him... if I came near him, he would have to kill me (he was twice my size. I was 5'3" tall and weighed 100 lbs.)

I vote for psychosis. Been there, saw that, got the history. It fits all the weird changes of information and ignoring reality that he does.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 02:52 PM
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Sadly, I think you are right as always.
I'll go out on a limb, maybe he wasn't always schizophrenic maybe it was part of the programming of his mind, maybe I need to look up more effects of mind control. I mean those earlier links seemed to describe what you said. What was Icke doing before he became a "researcher"? Someone said he was a reporter?



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 02:56 AM
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I'm more apt to believe the man is either mentally unstable or he's a snake oil salesman feeding off of a sci-fi obsessed, generally naive UFO community.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by Byrd
On a completely serious note, schizophrenia (paranoid psychosis) would explain it completely.


I'm sorry Byrd, but in Mind-Control cases Psychology won't explain all.

How can you explain that I felt specifics MC symptoms in a town I lived, end when I moved from this place, the symptoms, bad feelings, totally disappear.

And also, true electronic and micro-waves harrassed victims can have some physical symptoms, like micro-waves burns on the skin and/or tumors ?

Some victims have found implants under their skins !

I can believe David ICKES can be a victim of electronic harassement, people victims of these harassement are not choosen by hazard but are often involved persons into resistance against NWO, truth seekers or altermondialism militants.

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Nans DESMICHELS]



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 07:41 AM
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So what about Arizona Wilder, is she just some pathological liar? Attention Seeker? Paid off by Icke, or just loony?

Sitchin imo isn't a reptoid mutant, but he could still be a disinfo agent, not sure about laurence gardener.

I'm sure Arizona Wilder isn't her real name.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 09:31 AM
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Well, the first conspiaracy book I read was They Cast No Shadows, by Desborough. Pretty much everything in that book is duplicated in The Biggest Secret,by Icke. Desborough doesn't really seem to the believe in the reptilian thing. His stuff is more believable, but not as well sourced. He says he relies on 30+ years experience.

Icke did do drugs, a lot of them at some point? How dies this affect his books?
Didn't he also have some kind of mental episode, earlier in his life?



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 09:55 AM
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Delve into the mind of Reptilian Connection's founding believer
By Kenneth Scadden

Most conspiracy theorists reject, even ridicule, what David Icke says about the reptilian connection.

"That's fine, but unless they encompass this bigger picture they will never, in my view, understand what is truly happening all around us," Icke said.

"Reptilian connection is touted as bizarre. Indeed, if you do your job well enough, the people will laugh at the truth, call it insane, and ridicule anyone who promotes it."

OK, Galileo. Stop talking or we will lock you up, without the telescope!
chronicle.dcccd.edu...



Lets see here...We got Ninja Turtles, Reptiles in most cartoons for kids,we have the Geico Gecko pushed,we have SG1s Star Gate produced by Gekko Productions,Before the Iraq war, Scott gogles gave some of the troops hologram reptilian eyes(goggles). SoBe drinks(reptillian) I could go on but would hate to bore you with such nonsense...."caugh"



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