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Who Really Was King Solomon?

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posted on May, 31 2004 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by TheSeeker
Interesting, do you have any link that shows this in more detail by chance? Anything else that would explain any other parties who held this in significance, and why? As stated above the origins and motives to the S of D are of much interest to me. Thanks for another provoking reply!

TS


Well, I have given you many search criteria here, so go ahead. Most of what you'll find is probably Luciferian, but do a search for "cycle of Saturn" and go on from there. I am sure you will find enough to find a place to start. You are a little late though.

Another thing about the Roman name of the Star of David, Saturn, In Caldee it's written STUR S = 060, T = 400, U = 006, R = 200 = 666

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Camelopárdalis]

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Seekerof]




posted on May, 31 2004 @ 08:16 AM
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Well... You can read about how the Jews view the orgin of the star on the sites below.

ohr.edu...

www.menorah.org...



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 08:55 AM
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this is my two cents on the star of David,

The star of David originally appeared in the most ancient history of India as the symbol for the sun. And here we come back to the ghosip of the sun. Much later it was borowed by the Semitic cult of Saturn of ancient Jerusalem, evolving later to become the Jewish Star of David.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 09:00 AM
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what i have been told from various sources is that King Solomon was wise, as in the sense of just being more intelligent than most at his time, but he was no genius, confuscious or anything like that. He did have many many wives but Sheba was his favorite queen. When he died, the rastafarians claim that weed (marijuana) was found on his grave....hence the terminology wisdom weed.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 09:01 AM
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Whoa!!! he was ahead of his time.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 09:33 AM
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Well, as rightly suggested by Camelopárdalis, I have been poking around a tad. His previous thoughts, along with what Byrd wrote, got me thinking of implications of Solomon and some Mystery Religion.

So upon doing some research via some Masonic texts I have been able to come across, I found some rather interesting information.

In Masonry, there is a story of a man, an architect by the name of Hiram Abiff. He was *the* holder of the secret knowledge regarding various maths and sciences. And was basically the "head foreman" (I guess you'd say) of Temple construction. Here it's interesting to note that when a Mason is ready to obtain his 3rd degree from his Blue Lodge(the base lodge of Freemasonry), there is an embodiment of Hiram Abiff. I'll stop there as I don't know how much of that part is regarded as secret by Freemasons, and I don't want to knowingly offend any of the kind Masons on this forum.

What this leads to however, is rather interesting. If you remember my previous post, I speculated to Solomon's possible involvement in a "Mystery Religion", this was based off of Byrd's response.

So it's interesting to note, that by Masonic belief(I'm almost sure), Hiram Abiff, who is revered in Masonry mind you, not only knew Solomon, but in fact by Masonic belief, he was actually raised from the grave, by Solomon. Perhaps the most interesting thing is *how* Solomon supposedly raised Hiram from the grave(not resurrection), but I'll not get into that at the moment. I will say that the way it is said he raised Hiram(more appropriately Hiram's dead body), would likely imply that he himself was a "Mason"(don't think they were known as that at the time though) Again I don't know how much of this is considered to be for general consumption, or even fact for that matter, and I'd hate to offend the Masons here, so I'll stop there for now.

Anyways, to consider the story of Hiram Abiff, it would see it strongly parallels the ancient story of Isis and Osiris, however I'm not totally sure where to take it from there, but I'm pondering it.


TS

P.S. It also would seem that Solomon was in fact very deep into Kaballah Magik, so I'm following up all of this with the help of Camelopárdalis' "juicy tidbits".


Edit: Spelling etc
Edit: for Context and Flow of thought.

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by TheSeeker]

[Edited on 1-6-2004 by TheSeeker]



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 10:00 AM
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Yes, I read the Hiram key and that gave me a good understanding of the Mason rituals.
If you keep reasearching into ancient history outside religious believes you will find the conections of both is always present. This raises lots of questions for people like us that like to find the truth on everything and never stop learning.


[Edited on 31-5-2004 by marg6043]



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Yes, I read the Hiram key and that gave me a good understanding of the Mason rituals.
If you keep reasearching into ancient history outside religious believes you will find the conections of both is always present. This raises lots of questions for people like us that like to find the truth on everything and never stop learning.


[Edited on 31-5-2004 by marg6043]



That is so true Marg, I've not read The Hiram Key, but I will check it out. I'd have to say my true passion in life is understanding. And it's always amazed me how much we *don't* know, even after a good, traditional education. Many take so much of society Prima Facia, which is sad. I believe nothing should be taken at face value, and that we should strive to understand what motivates society, as well as trying to comprehend its overall path.


TS



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 10:42 AM
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Worldwatcher,

Very interesting as well. I'd wondered about the basis of Marijuana in Rastafarian customs. With such a firm belief in the Conquering Lion of Judah, I've got to wonder what angle I should look at that from, something to think about.



TS



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by TheSeeker


So it's interesting to note, that by Masonic belief(I'm almost sure), Hiram Abiff, who is revered in Masonry mind you, not only knew Solomon, but in fact by Masonic belief, he was actually raised from death, by Solomon. Perhaps the most interesting thing is *how* Solomon supposedly raised Hiram from the grave, but I'll not get into that at the moment. I will say that the way it is said he raised Hiram, would surely imply that he himself was a "Mason"(don't think they were known as that at the time though)




Alas. According to masonry, King Solomon did not raise Hiram from the grave.
Once Hiram died, he stayed dead.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by TheSeeker
In Masonry, there is a story of a man, an architect by the name of Hiram Abiff. He was *the* holder of the secret knowledge regarding various maths and sciences. And was basically the "head foreman" (I guess you'd say) of Temple construction.

I"d heard this and never questioned it -- until some Masons who were also historians and scholarly researchers wrote that this was a story made up by the lodges to give the organization some cachet. It was not an unusual practice during this time period to make up a mystical origin for your club/gorup/whatever.

The name "Hiram Abiff" is the key here... during Solomon's time, nobody except kings had last names. Abiff is not a Jewish last name of ancient times. (generally they have names like 'bar David' (son of David) and so forth.)



So it's interesting to note, that by Masonic belief(I'm almost sure), Hiram Abiff, who is revered in Masonry mind you, not only knew Solomon, but in fact by Masonic belief, he was actually raised from death, by Solomon. Perhaps the most interesting thing is *how* Solomon supposedly raised Hiram from the grave, but I'll not get into that at the moment. I will say that the way it is said he raised Hiram, would surely imply that he himself was a "Mason"(don't think they were known as that at the time though)

Anyways, to consider the story of Hiram Abiff, it would see it strongly parallels the ancient story of Isis and Osiris, however I'm not totally sure where to take it from there, but I'm pondering it.


Not a bad guess... one more bit of information that will help here is that Mystery Schools/Mystery Religions/and old Fratrenaties all had "allegorical plays" as the basis of their rituals. In other words, one might show the death of Adonis and rebirth of Adonis as Phoenix (I just made this example up) and walk the initiate through the scenario as a "you are dead from your old life and now you're reborn as a Brother of the Lodge." The "reborn as a new member" was common in all these organizations. There would be "mystery/allegorical plays" for each stage/level of the organization.

In modern times we don't have much contact with "mystery religions" and our rituals (even the pagan ones) don't include allegorical plays, so these things are often misinterpreted because they are outside the common experience of modern man. They should be seen as allegories, though, and not True History.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 11:33 AM
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"Abiff" probably means "son of". So the name would be "Hiram son of....."
It's not a surname.

www.fact-index.com...

In modern times, Christianity actually draws heavily on the "mystery religions" and actually carries out some of the old rituals!!!! The fact that the Church claimed them as it's own doesn't mean that it invented them!!!
Take a look at Baptism and Communion as examples.

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Leveller]



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by Byrd

I"d heard this and never questioned it -- until some Masons who were also historians and scholarly researchers wrote that this was a story made up by the lodges to give the organization some cachet. It was not an unusual practice during this time period to make up a mystical origin for your club/gorup/whatever.

The name "Hiram Abiff" is the key here... during Solomon's time, nobody except kings had last names. Abiff is not a Jewish last name of ancient times. (generally they have names like 'bar David' (son of David) and so forth.)


Actually, "Hiram Abiff" is mentioned by that name in the Torah. I give you the equivalent passage from the King James Bible (I Kings 7:13-14):


"13": And king Solomon sent and fetched Hiram out of Tyre.

"14": He was a widow's son of the tribe of Naphtali, and his father was a man of Tyre, a worker in brass: and he was filled with wisdom, and understanding, and cunning to work all works in brass. And he came to king Solomon, and wrought all his work.


In the Torah, this inidividual is known as "Huram Abiv," the second part of which is NOT a last name, but rather a description. Abiv means "His Father" and in context is a signifyer of respect for Huram, because he was an excellent craftsman.

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by AlexKennedy]

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by AlexKennedy]



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 11:41 AM
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Well, I'll admit it. I too, in my time, read "The Hiram Key" and fell for it... and I should have known better, having a training in science and thus (hopefully) in critical thinking. Nonetheless, if you read "The Hiram Key" with a critical eye, you will see that, among other things, the authors bring up a speculative argument (without any factual proof), and then ten pages later treat it as if it is established fact. Repeat until book is finished.

Most scholarly Masons find this book well-intentioned, but tragically wrong. You can read a little about the majority viewpoint on this book here.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by AlexKennedy
Abiv means "His Father" and in context is a signifyer of respect for Huram, because he was an excellent craftsman.


That's interesting. I hadn't heard of it put that way before. I have always been of the understanding that the description in the link I gave was an accurate one.
Have you got any references I can check up on this one Alex? Thanks.



Heh. At least I didn't fall for the Hiram Key.


[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Leveller]



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 11:51 AM
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Leveller,

The link that you gave actually refers to "Hiram Abi" meaning "Huram, my father's," not "Huram, son of..." As for references, I find myself embarassingly bereft. I believe that "Born in Blood" deals with this issue somewhat, but the John Robinson actually comes up with a different (and, IMO, incorrect) theory of the meaning of the name.

I guess we'd have to ask someone who knows Hebrew...

I looked around on the internet for further back-up, but couldn't find any. It's clear that the "abi" means "his father" or "your father," but as for the deeper meaning here, I am not sure. I feel that the name has many deeper meanings in fact, but this is not the place for that discussion.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by AlexKennedy
I guess we'd have to ask someone who knows Hebrew...


Well that narrows it down for me. All the people I know have trouble speaking proper English, let alone Hebrew........

"cunning man, endued with understanding, of Huram my father's"
Does that not mean the same thing as "son of"?

You mention "Born in Blood" - I've heard it mentioned a few times. Is it worth a read in your opinion? I'm looking for something with a bit of credibility that doesn't reach well beyond itself (as the Hiram Key does).

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Leveller]



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller
Alas. According to masonry, King Solomon did not raise Hiram from the grave.
Once Hiram died, he stayed dead.



LOL quite right to point that out Leveller. Sorry didn't mean to imply that this resurrection actually happened, just that it was speculated or spoken of as legend. As stated above I'm not a big believer in "opening gates of hell" or "resurrections" or the like, mainly from admitted lack of knowledge on my part, and no first hand experiences with such things. I should've pointed that out.




Byrd:
Interesting note that he'd not've had a last name. Presuming for a second that he was in fact real, maybe even if not royalty, his brotherhood could have bestowed a name on him? Without it being common knowledge that he was called Hiram Abiff(in public etc), but while in company of his brethren this title was bestowed upon him? Again, speculation.

I don't know what to say about the Mason historians debunking Hiram, I've always heard of him (or what he represents metaphorically at least) being venerated by Masons. Leveller, any thoughts on this?


Not a bad guess... one more bit of information that will help here is that Mystery Schools/Mystery Religions/and old Fraternities all had "allegorical plays" as the basis of their rituals. In other words, one might show the death of Adonis and rebirth of Adonis as Phoenix (I just made this example up) and walk the initiate through the scenario as a "you are dead from your old life and now you're reborn as a Brother of the Lodge." The "reborn as a new member" was common in all these organizations. There would be "mystery/allegorical plays" for each stage/level of the organization.

In modern times we don't have much contact with "mystery religions" and our rituals (even the pagan ones) don't include allegorical plays, so these things are often misinterpreted because they are outside the common experience of modern man. They should be seen as allegories, though, and not True History.


Now this is a *really* good point, theatrical representations I'd think were quite important, as some fraternities to this day carry the torch so to speak. Granted in modern times we don't have what is known as mystery religions or whatnot, but there are still groups that perform various rituals in theatrical prose, some of which are quite old, and maybe even some that are very old that I have no understanding of. I'd reference some Freemason rituals, but I think it's very secret to their brotherhood, and I respect their secrets very much.

One thing I don't really think is secret anymore is the alleged "Bohemian Grove"(not masonic) group of captains of industry, world leaders blah blah you know, where they perform ancient Canaanite rituals via theatrical prose. When confronted on such things, they say it is just a fraternal tradition, I don't try to convince one way or the other that it's just fraternal ceremony or holds some darker purpose, but it would seem that it does still take place? I'll try to find the name of said ritual, and a photo, I'll post it if/when I do. I'm sure I've seen it though.


All in all, I love the way this is progressing. Such an open exchange of thoughts is always a joy to take part in. Thank you, to all current (and future) contributors!



TS
*edit* quote only what is needed.

Your first quote action was a double quote, hence the edit.

Good point Seekerof, thank you, Banshee and I had a similar discussion the other day, but I'm just now getting used to the quote and /quote syntax, throws me off a tad. Thank you though!

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Seekerof]

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by TheSeeker]



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller
"
In modern times, Christianity actually draws heavily on the "mystery religions" and actually carries out some of the old rituals!!!! The fact that the Church claimed them as it's own doesn't mean that it invented them!!!
Take a look at Baptism and Communion as examples.

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Leveller]


Yes indeed. Very good point, I alluded to the Canaanite ritual example, but yes that's very very true. I myself am not a follower of any religion, although I do believe in the possibility of a "divine being" of some sort. Your point is more than valid, thinking of dunking a person in water, or eating the symbolic flesh and blood of your savior is quite the ritual. Indeed.


TS



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by AlexKennedy
Actually, "Hiram Abiff" is mentioned by that name in the Torah. I give you the equivalent passage from the King James Bible (I Kings 7:13-14):


"13": And king Solomon sent and fetched Hiram out of Tyre.

"14": He was a widow's son of the tribe of Naphtali, and his father was a man of Tyre, a worker in brass: and he was filled with wisdom, and understanding, and cunning to work all works in brass. And he came to king Solomon, and wrought all his work.


In the Torah, this inidividual is known as "Huram Abiv," the second part of which is NOT a last name, but rather a description. Abiv means "His Father" and in context is a signifyer of respect for Huram, because he was an excellent craftsman.

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by AlexKennedy]


Very good info there
, I'd not even thought of him being in the Torah, and it's even more interesting that his "surname" could possibly not be a surname at all. As stated in my above post, I thought maybe someone in his ancient brotherhood may have given him that as a "Title of Distinction", but I can see how it could be a descriptive title as well. Nice


TS

[edit:] P.S. Thanks for the link on The Hiram Key, I'll be checking into both sides of the coin. I'm all about informed decisions, and appreciate the extra "vantage point".


TS

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by TheSeeker]



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