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Nukes (your opinion wanted)

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posted on May, 31 2004 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by John McCarthy
The explanation for this lies in Meteor Crater in Arizona. It is one mile across and a bit over 1100 feet deep. It was created by a 500 pound rock traveling at about 40,000 MPH.

The US has developed a missile launch-able from most of the fighters and bombers in the Air Force inventory, which has NO warhead, weighs in around 2000 pounds and when fired, travels into outer-space, gains speed to about 40K MPH and then returns to a programmed target on earth resulting in destruction exponentially greater than that causing Meteor Crater, without radiation contamination, unless you count the Depleted Uranium used to harden the missle to withstand reentry.

The justification for the use of such a weapon would be the same as that offered for the nuclear weapons dropped on civilian targets in Japan.

Talk about collateral damage.....

John McCarthy

I'd love to see any kind of documentation, link or other proof showing that this exists.




posted on May, 31 2004 @ 12:51 PM
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Once we stepped over the threshold of using the atom in this manner, nukes will be with us until society radically changes. The knowledge of how to do this is there, therefore the only deterent is to have some of your own. MAD is a fact of life.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by intelgurl

Originally posted by John McCarthy
The explanation for this lies in Meteor Crater in Arizona. It is one mile across and a bit over 1100 feet deep. It was created by a 500 pound rock traveling at about 40,000 MPH.

The US has developed a missile launch-able from most of the fighters and bombers in the Air Force inventory, which has NO warhead, weighs in around 2000 pounds and when fired, travels into outer-space, gains speed to about 40K MPH and then returns to a programmed target on earth resulting in destruction exponentially greater than that causing Meteor Crater, without radiation contamination, unless you count the Depleted Uranium used to harden the missle to withstand reentry.

The justification for the use of such a weapon would be the same as that offered for the nuclear weapons dropped on civilian targets in Japan.

Talk about collateral damage.....

John McCarthy

I'd love to see any kind of documentation, link or other proof showing that this exists.


I think he is talking about the Hyper strike misile program , but I HIGHLY doubt it is so powerfull.


[Edited on 31-5-2004 by longbow]



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 06:41 PM
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nukes are far too dangerous to be allowed to be used
i mean come on nukes frankly just will screw every 1



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 06:51 PM
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If countries start using or developing Tactical Nuclear weapons, where does it end. It just sends out the message that nukes can be acceptable to use outside of MAD.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 07:04 PM
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The Hyper Strike missile is not nearly that powerful. It travels at a speed less then Mach 6, which would cause considerable damage but no where near the scale of the crater. You must be speaking of a conceptual version of that weapon.



posted on Jun, 1 2004 @ 02:53 AM
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Theoretically it is possible to create some kind of orbital kinetic energy weapon. Remeber that Saturn-5 was able to transport 140 tons on low orbit. So you can make a big ICBM based on the SATURN-5 with HUGE payload. The warhead could 50 tons of high tamperature resistent metal and it will speed up not only up to the orbit but also on the way back down. Of course it will be energetically VERY ineffective, so personaly I think MOAB is much better.

[Edited on 1-6-2004 by longbow]



posted on Jun, 1 2004 @ 05:47 PM
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Not at all Mr. Jingles. The key to that sentence is "preemptive". The WWII nuclear drops were not preemptive, but supposedly justified to save millions of US casualties.

The spooky part of the timing on the decision to hit civilian targets (Hiroshima and Nagasaki) is the death of FDR.

A 17 year old National Guard Private was posted as an armed guard at the bottom of the steps leading up to the veranda surrounding the President's home in Warm Springs, Georgia, in April, 1945. On the veranda sat an old black man rocking back and forth with tears streaming down his face.

"The master's gone", he cried. "The master done shot hisself".

With that the Secret Service and FBI whisked the old man away and he was never seen again.

If the President had committed suicide his reasons may be as varied and the pain from his polio, his tumultuous relationship with his wife or his despair over his affair(s).

If he had changed his mind about using the atom bombs on Japan, he may have been killed.

Harry Truman was not aware of the Manhattan Project while FDR was alive.

The elderly black man was the President's piano player, and was blind but certainly not deaf. He heard the shot that killed the President but did not see who, if anyone, was the shooter. He assumed the President "shot hisself".

There was a closed casket funeral and the public was told FDR died of a cerebral hemorrhage. (But not told the hemorrhage was caused by a bullet)

The questions are obvious: Did he commit suicide? Why? Was he murdered? Why?

A Russian (we were war allies then) diplomat advised Mrs. Roosevelt, through her son, that he feared FDR died from poisoning and recommended she demand an autopsy. His motivation for this is not known, but he personally relayed this information to the President's son, Kermit, who was an Army Lieutenant Colonel. He did not say "lead" poisoning, and for some strange reason, there was no autopsy performed on the President. Case closed? Not quite.

Fast forward to 1961 to the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary. One of the guards whose job was to read the incoming and outgoing mail of the prison inmates was the same 17 year old National Guard Private who was at Warm Springs, Georgia, some 16 years previous and over heard the Presidents piano player make the statement "The Master's gone. The Master done shot hisself".

One piece of mail got his attention. It was addressed to KGB Colonel Rudolf Abel, who had been arrested in New York in 1957 and tried and convicted of espionage and sentenced to over forty years in prison.

The letter began, "My Darling Rudolf". It went on to say that negotiations were proceeding to exchange him for Francis Gary Powers, the CIA's U2 Pilot downed over the Soviet Union in May of 1960. The letter was signed Elanor Roosevelt.

The spy exchange took place on February 11, 1962.

For particulars on Rudolph Abel see:

www.fbi.gov...

John McCarthy
Chairman of The Board of VERPA
Veterans Equal Rights Protections Advocacy
www.verpa.org...
Blog: www.jenmartinez.com...
Email: jmac1369@earthlink.net



posted on Jun, 1 2004 @ 06:23 PM
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I read about the "no warhead rentry type" missile and am trying to find the information. Meanwhile, try this on.

www..fas.org...

John McCarthy



posted on Jun, 1 2004 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by thematrix
Ukraine: Known to have capability and in storage due to stuff left behind by the USSR , yet no clear number available.
Belarus: Known to have capability and in storage due to stuff left behind by the USSR , yet no clear number available.
Kazakhstan: Known to have capability and in storage due to stuff left behind by the USSR , yet no clear number available.


Those are the worriers because the soviets took the launch codes with them. That makes them useless to those nations and extremely likely that they would sell them to a terrorist group. Enough radioactive material to decimate half of manhattan in one of those warheads. I believe the figure stands at around 50.

Australia has no program but is able to mine nuclear materials so they're put on the board for prudence.

I think the country most likely to use them would be China and the UK closely afterwards. We Brits have no fear about committing genocide for the good of the country.



posted on Jun, 1 2004 @ 07:03 PM
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Actually those three former Soviet Republics were forced to sell back all their Nuclear Weapons and technologies to the Russians, it was made as an agreement between the collapsing Soviets and America that should the Soviet Union dissolve, that Russia would be the successor state. This agreement was solidified by America and the West's assurance that the Ukraine Baylorussia or Khazakhstan would not be made vulnerable to Russian aggression due to the lack of nuclear arms.



posted on Jun, 1 2004 @ 08:42 PM
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Eh, nukes will be around until something more powerful comes along. If a powerhouse disarms their nukes (like Russia), then a rouge country may take advantage and attack. It's a lose, lose situation for all.


Then there's always the fact that anti-matter can be produced. This, I beleive, is the most potent weapon that is possible to be developed. Why?, you may ask. Anti-matter combining with any type of matter converts completely into energy, and shoots out MASSIVE amounts of radiation. I had an article somewhere, let me find it.

science.howstuffworks.com...

There it is.



posted on Jun, 1 2004 @ 11:25 PM
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Your post shows a complete lack of knowledge in the area of nuclear arsenals.

First off all the Nuclear weapons in the world can't destroy all or even most human life.
Yes, they can. If you had even a close estimate to the total power of blast, electromagnetic, heat, and radiation damage a nuclear device could cause, you would know this.

There are at most some 20,000 opperational Strategic Nukes and that's even exagerating most likely.
Considering I don't wish to open the books nearest me- 'Weapons of Mass Destruction, by Robert Hutchinson' or 'Looking the Tiger in the Eye' but an author I cannot recall- I can stand to bet that the actual number is around 20,000, give or take several thousand. Also, as many countries don't so much destroy their weapons as dismantle them and place their still-operational parts in storage containers, several thousand, ten thousand, possibly hundred thousand more could be rebuilt within weeks, months, years respectively.

Most of these nukes are between 300kt - 750kt. Which means they can not even devestate a full 1 mile radius from the area hit.

First of all, the world opted for 300kt-750kt warheads, due to the ability of MIRV. To fit multiple warheads, independantely targeted, on a missle. I believe there are systems out there with capabilities of holding eighteen, perhaps more, small warheads. Also, a 750 kiloton would devestate .. though I'm only using basic knowledge of what devices such as the 'Davery Crockett' atomic-rocket launcher device used since I've never directly found references to this.. most likely three to seven miles. Yes, at seven the damage would be minimal. Concrete structures would be barely damage, steel structures may collapse, or partially bend, but it would still require large economical fixes.

The largest Nuke made by the Russians which is 25 megatons could only devestate about 12 miles of area, after that it lost a lot of power fast.
Actually, this is what made me laugh. The Russians BUILT and designed a 100+ megaton bomb, but they set of a bomb of 58 megatons, so the radiation of the world did not increase several fold. And, also, the power of a nuclear device is infinite. As long as you have more fuel, you can continue the layer-cake design, among others. The only problem is delivery. And by the way, the Russian bomb, 'Boom' went the penninsula/island/landmass they were testing on. It was devestated.

The fall-out from a 1 megaton nuke in 45 mile an hour winds is 250 miles, where the fall out about 100 miles away on to 250 is non-lethal unless you make snow-angels in it (I used a "nuclear fall-out calculator" it was probably reliable since I tested it on raw data from smaller yields to see if it could predict them accurately.)
Your lack of grammar and english here confuses me, but let me point out .. napalm bombings on rural areas in Japan provided (500? 1500? Near one of the two) MPH winds. Thsi created HUMAN MISSLES. Now, a megaton weapons can create several times the heat of the sun. THAT, creates fast wind.

The only people who ever said Nuclear War may destroy human life on earth were a few scientists who proposed the idea of "nuclear winter" which consisted of nuking the entire world evenly. Even then it was stretching it and who is going to Nuke kenya or Antarctica or Argentina?

The idea of nuclear winter, is a mass of radioactive dust rising into the air. This occurs plenty of times with volcanoes, such as Mt. St. Helen's (How many times did the dust travel the Earth? I believe it was .. eh .. three or more?) and that same idea, sans radiation, is what leading scientists believe obliterated the dinosaur population, in case you forget. That and the resulting shock/fire wave from the hit.

Nukes because they are generally small (compared to what we're capable of USA can make 9 Megaton nukes) are usually much safer than conventional weapons.
USA no longer deploys nine megatons, it's worthless. Yes, if there was an enormous command center, base of operations, or hardened area, we could drop something that large- but attacking a military base or the military infrastructure requires very small yields. And no, they are not safer than conventional weapons, unless you count how poor the accuracy for conventional weaponry is. (Nukes do not rely on accuracy, if you are required to launch them at a target. So what if you miss by a mile, everything will be eradicated or blown away, anyway.)

Remember almost 10 million people were killed in WW2 to conventional bombs.
Not sure on the statistics of this .. thought I heard recently that the U.S. lost One million plus alone, so, I may have to doubt this ... though, you do only get a fraction of total deaths, to the 'By bombs' reference..

Nukes are used against hardened Strategic Weapons facilities and therefore not against populated areas, fall-out can be avoided and cleaned. And when the war's over, it's over, there is no resistence left because all strategic forces of one of them is completely whiped out.

Fallout requires extreme sand-blasting and other such measures to 'cure.' Radiation can last millions of years, the contamination, half-life of Uranium and plutonium is quite long I believe. Well, Uranium at least. Nukes are not used against anything. They were used against two large, civillian-military control centers in WWII.



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 07:39 PM
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I do believe the super megaton bombs dropped on the atolls of the Pacific give a hint as to permanent destruction. There was a proposed 7 megaton bomb dropped on a vacated section of an atoll. Unfortunately, the actual yield of the damn thing was over 13 megatons. The plume downwind was so massive, it required further mass evacuation of all humans hundreds of miles downrange, to the east. No one can enter the area today, fifty years later. That was one bomb. We have multiple (MIRV) weapons with five to seven warheads each independently targeted (or the same target) each with a 10 megaton yield. And there are thousands of those. So, if you multiply the area denied to human habitat from the 1954 screwup by thousands you will have an idea of the vastness of denied areas of inhabitable land, NOT ocean. If you strike every major city on the west coast of the US, the fallout will be similar to the 10 megaton equivalent blast of Mt. St, Helen's' eruption which dropped ash as far away as Chicago. That was just ONE blast. So if you program five or six 10 megatons per major city on the west coast and throw a few into Denver, Dallas, Kansas City, Chicago, Memphis and Houston, the area of contamination would cover the US. Now, where are we to move?

John McCarthy
Chairman of The Board of VERPA
Veterans Equal Rights Protection Advocacy
www.verpa.org...
Blog: www.jenmartinez.com...



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 07:44 PM
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That's a nice point to bring up John... and a quite disturbing one at that. I still say we go for Anti-Matter bombs. 300 times more power than Nuclear Fusion everyone!



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 08:24 PM
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The half life for Depleted Uranium is 4.5 Billion years, older than our planet.
U238, DU, is 99.5% of what is left over (waste) from the process to extract .5% U235, the business end of nuclear weapons, from natural Uranium.

DU is used to harden warheads of weapons to enhance their penetration proficiency. It is also used as armor on tanks and such.

The problem occurs when DU is ignited or exploded. DU vaporizes into radiation gas containing nano (Billionths of a meter) sized particles that are omnicidal, they kill or contaminate every living thing, plants, animals, humans, the food chain and the water.

1000 tons of DU have been dropped on Afghanistan and over twice that much on Iraq, so far.

Remember the "shock and awe" of the initial attack on Baghdad? That is now the "green zone", the recipient of many tons of DU that is still there.

The initial Contamination Zones around Kabul and Baghdad is a radius of 1000 miles. When DU is inhaled, the Alfa and Beta particles attack the cellular structure and act like mini-nukes. This is slooooooooow death. There is no antidote for Radiation poisoning. Kiss it goodby. The generations to come of those infected today will suffer grave medical abnormalities. It will be passed on by the men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan today. Remember the phrase "gulf war syndrome"? That's right, DU was first used in 1991 on the "road of death" north of Kuwait.
How many vets of that conflict are on 100% disability? Try over 100K.

How many of their children were born horribly deformed? Try many thousands. DU is still being found in the urine samples of those vets.

DU was known to the US Government in 1942 when the Manhattan Project proposed using DU as a backup weapon of mass destruction in the event the atom bomb failed to function as designed. Is this some kind of idiocy?

Eventually, the DU will encircle the globe. We all have bulls eyes on our backs.

Don't think so?

www.awakenedwoman.com...

Sleep well, my friend.

John McCarthy
Chairman of The Board of VERPA
www.verpa.org...
Blog: www.jenmartinez.com...
Email: jmac1369@earthlink.net

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by John McCarthy]



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 09:12 PM
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Thanks for the info John.
I also wanted to state some newly conceived weapons featured in this months Popular Science magazine. 1. Rail Gun. 2. Super-Cavitating Torpedo. 3. LASER's mounted on aircraft. 4. Spears dropped from space like meteors. 5. A gun that fires a million rounds a minute.

Sorry I have no link. I'm pretty sure www.popsci.com should have some info.



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 09:49 PM
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yea umm they can be replaced by hydrogen bombs 1000 times stronger than a nuke.....it is only a theory.....and uhhh.....ion beams can burn things like this
BOOM



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 09:55 PM
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Can someone explain the whole megaton kilaton explosion thing to me, I never understood that.



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by WaStEdDeAtH777
Thanks for the info John.
I also wanted to state some newly conceived weapons featured in this months Popular Science magazine. 1. Rail Gun. 2. Super-Cavitating Torpedo. 3. LASER's mounted on aircraft. 4. Spears dropped from space like meteors. 5. A gun that fires a million rounds a minute.

Sorry I have no link. I'm pretty sure www.popsci.com should have some info.


about that gun....ive already heard about it from a friend....it was an experiment and was mounted on a firetruck due to its size....million rounds per second

are rail guns that just magnetically magnify the speed and fire large objects with metal in it? like craters?

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by CookieMonster000]



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