When was this picture taken

As the name of the thread says
When was this particular picture taken?


As much information as possible would be good.
Please no links to conspiracy sites or debunker sites, just the facts
Thanks

I'm guessing a few days after 9/11, interesting pic though, guy in the center looks as if he is wondering about something

reply to post by munkey66

No one knows and never will, unless the real photographer just shows up on this thread.
What is the point anyway; I have seen this photo use to discredit the OS and to support the OS.

Are you trying to find out if the cut steel had been cut by clean up workers, or if the steel was already like that right after the WTC came down?

I agree for the sake of either arguments without proof of when this photo was taken it, severs no purpose to either side of the 911 camps.

reply to post by munkey66


Actually it is a crop from a larger photo. There are two construction workers in the background, and three firemen. There is no evidence that these columns were cut by construction workers. No cables in sight from cranes, no cut upper pieces anywhere in sight, no oxyacetylene tanks, no nitrogen or argon plasma tanks or hoses.

Smoke is boiling up out of the ground and it looks like they are searching for survivors. The cut columns are surrounded by too much dangerous and sharp material to envision welders and cutters standing there to cut those pieces off. Besides they would have cut them straight across with a crane holding the upper section.

Obviously these were cut prior to the tower collapse.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/86ec96582d5b.jpg[/atsimg]

Larger image

[edit on 2/13/10 by SPreston]

If the firemen are looking for survivors in that area, then to cut vertical columns would make no sense. Survivors beneath them would be recklessly endangered if the multi-ton sections were dropped in the rubble.

Several of the steel columns appear to be broken at the end; not cut. Yet they are about even with the cut columns.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/63b7387179af.jpg[/atsimg]



[edit on 2/13/10 by SPreston]

I don't think the FDNY were a part of the clean-up, ie the hauling out of all the mass as fast as possible.

They were part of the search and rescue, but that only lasted for a couple/few days as I recall, before Giuliani called them off and ordered everything be shipped out ASAP. There were articles about this because Giuliani calling off the search caused some clashes between firefighters and police as the firefighters didn't want to just give up on looking for survivors so soon.

reply to post by bsbray11

They were part of the search and rescue, but that only lasted for a couple/few days as I recall, before Giuliani called them off and ordered everything be shipped out ASAP. There were articles about this because Giuliani calling off the search caused some clashes between firefighters and police as the firefighters didn't want to just give up on looking for survivors so soon.

Picture is from several weeks after 911 - probably from late October or
November based on the fact most of the debris removed and were down
to core columns. FF also wearing Carhart overalls instead of bunker pants
these were issued in later phases.

FF were on scene for almost 6 months - until site was cleared and last remains recovered

Giuliani had tried to restrict number of FF during recovery in November to
no more than 25 per shift provoking bitter feelings from FDNY many of whose men were still emtombed there.

Originally posted by bsbray11
I don't think the FDNY were a part of the clean-up, ie the hauling out of all the mass as fast as possible.

Wrong again, firefighters were collecting body parts for months afterwards

They were part of the search and rescue, but that only lasted for a couple/few days as I recall,

Firefighters were there for 250 days after 9/11

www.nytimes.com...

Last 4 Firefighters Leave Ground Zero: 'Our Work Is Done'
By ERIC LIPTON and JAMES GLANZ
Published: June 25, 2002

reply to post by SPreston


Cut before building collapsed? Have any more stupid remarks?

Smoke is boiling up out of the ground and it looks like they are searching for survivors. The cut columns are surrounded by too much dangerous and sharp material to envision welders and cutters standing there to cut those pieces off. Besides they would have cut them straight across with a crane holding the upper section.

FF were searching for human remains - especially those of their lost brothers, some 343 were killed at WTC. Debris pile burned for 3 months until mid December - was very dangerous to be there as were hot pockets and fires flared up wihen debris moved allowing fresh air into the pile.

Columns cut on diagonal to avoid slag from torch

WTC Steel showing obvious torch marks. The torch was angled towards the lower part of the cut (not perpendicular to the column face), probably to keep the hot slag moving away from the operator. The thickness of the steel, combined with the angle of torch and the diagonal ("downhill") direction of the cut, makes for a cut that produces a lot of slag. Slag adhesion to such columns would be expected to vary with temperature, surface condition, and type of torch used. Note the apparent slag, circled in red, that's sitting on top of the loose debris. That could only get there after the collapse. What we don't see – on any WTC steel – is the deep vertical cutting and huge amounts of residue and slag that would be expected to come from the enormous amounts of thermite/thermate that some conspiracists claim was used.

reply to post by thedman


Well that's just one persons analysis, doesn't mean they're right or that the 'truthers' are wrong.

I find it annoying that all you can do is post links to other peoples opinions, yet never offer any actual evidence, but then act like you do. Just because you find something that supports the OS doesn't mean it's valid.

Calling the opinion that they were cut before the collapse stupid just shows your bias, and a bias based on someone else's opinion.

Sorry but no evidence either way means it's still in question, and a new independent investigation is still warranted. You miss the point that we don't have to prove anything, just show the OS is in doubt to justify a better investigation. What are you here for, to try to prove the OS is correct, or persuade people a new investigation is not necessary? Why would anyone fear a new investigation huh??

reply to post by thedman

Cut at an angle to avoid dripping slag from torch head?? o you actually believe that?
I certainly hope not!

If that cut was cut by any worker for any expert construction crew he should be fire.

No cpmpany would ever make a cut like that for any kind of clean up ever i mean ever, only cuts made like that are for shifting the base ,or as is called in demo(walking the building).

That cut was made along the longest line across that beam /no cutter or comapany would ever make a cut like that for clean up

Strait across is faster ,and cheaper , and if anyone elses ever tells u other wise they are lieing out their ass and have either no clue or helping who ever is trying to cover it up.

Just so u know no slag will ever drip into the tip of a torch , ((((Unless)))) you are pointing the torch upwards over your head cutting , and even then the force of the shot of air that actualy pushes the meatal out of the way , wouldnt allow the slag to hit the tip, the only clogging that happens is from spatter from poping molten slag at the torch tip head end ,and not from dripping slag LOL , that is just clasic dripping slag , so cut the beam at an angle , just rich , i mean just rich,

And just so you know the dripping slag on the front of the beam , couldnt have happend (((Unless)))) the cutter was standing inside of the beam,period it cant be made from a hand held torch every!

That was with out a dought a cutter charge that cut threw that beam to create that slag,and the angle of that cut , that kinda of cut is used for walking the building .

No profesional crew that is just cleaning would ever make a cut like that ,and The best of the best cleaned up ground zero , so we know for sure being they are the best , they would never make that cut like that ,

They would know better, and that is for sure ,

Look up the cleaning crew , you can see videos of the very company that cleand up hell they where even fetured on the history channle , bragging how badd ass they where at taking a 100 story building and dropping it in its basement ,He actually said that very thing LOL.

powerfull guild these demo guys are ,research the company and you will see, I am just saying

I appreciate the help people

I was really hoping to find out the date as part of an arguement about the strange cut if this was done as part of the clean up.

When I first saw the picture I thought this was indeed the smoking gun. It absolutely appears that the beam was cut using charges exactly as in a classic demolition. A date on the photo would definitely disprove the OS if it were immediately after 9/11.

A date on the photo anyone?

reply to post by lycopersicum


For those that have engineering aptitude your explanation helps reveal some of the tricks of the trade. There must have been some doubt about the ability of the demo crew to "drop the towers in their basement" when the WTC project was dreamed up. The lower height buildings that were part of the project and taken down after the tower implosion were built in positions that would shield the neighboring city structures from the dust and debris outflow. Someone must have set up some instruments to record wind speed during the event but I have never seen the results published?

Oh dear Lord. It looks like the truthers are lying again.

Here is a photo of the steel being cut, after the collapse.

reply to post by dino1989

For starters i am not a truther,...I am just not a huckleberry .

files.abovetopsecret.com...

I dont care when this picture was taken , dosnt change the fact that that cut was not made with a torch at that angle ,

look at the entire beams cut its the same all the way around and clean , for one a human hand ,holding a cutting torch, could never mke a cutt like that ,on that thick of steel plate, That cut was made all at once in an instant!

to make that cut would take some serious plannig out , we are talking beam very very thick,You caant just let them fall willy nilly,we are talking huge dangerious weight, there is no top of the beam ,no crane,to hold the top part of the beam in place ,so it dosnt crush the cutter (LOL) ,no fire blankets to protect anyone still barried , they use those to sheild people from all the sparks while cutting,


Nothing in this pick , shows,anything that would resemble any kind of clean up ,there is no torch hoses ,no path for the crane to lift the toppled (so called) top of the beam,the height of the cut would indicate it had to be cut from standing on a ladder to make that cut since there is no crane anywhere??

There is no way any guy is going to hold 60 pounds of torch head ,and torch hose ,on a ldder and make a cut as clean as that,and another thing,if it was cut by hand like some say, riddle me this einstiens, how is it that its a very clean cut so some one would have to have been UBER bad ass cutter to even make a clean cut like that,stnding on the groundnmuch less standing on a ladder (LOL)

Like I said anyone who says it was cut by hand is < Either lieing or ,donet know anything about cutting up 6 inch thick plate steel, or is helping to hide what happen ,

And yes a date would help ,but i am sure you will never find that out or it would spill the beans,, and i am sure of that

reply to post by lycopersicum



So, your an expert ey?

reply to post by dino1989


I have been to welding school,so i do have some sort of concept , but no I don't consider myself an expert. but these guys are!

I suggest all watch this one below for sure
video.google.com...#

www.youtube.com...

This I do know , it took longer than 10 or 12 seconds to build those building, this is fore sure,I think it took 4 years , that is allot of potential energy stored in those structures ,again riddle me this you would need so much energy to bring the building down in 10 to 20 sec,every man hour put into building those buildings is stored potential energy,the walls welded beams, bolted beams, laid carpet ,hung sheet rock, ect..ect..ect.. u get the picture, nothing comes for free, I mean nothing,ever in the laws of physics comes for free. So basically the energy needed to bring down the towers, would have to be hugely greater then the potential energy stored in them, so they would never have turned themselves into dust.And that energy would have had to been released all at once,to drop them in 30 seconds much less , the 15 secs that was actually measured.
I know enough to know ,buildings dont disintegrate,and crumble apart,like they did, without huge amounts of energy.

But believe what u want , i am just saying , dont believe me look it up there are tons and tons of physics books ,and thermodynamics books out there.
I am just saying, dont be their huckleberry




files.abovetopsecret.com...

www.controlled-demolition.com...

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 14-2-2010 by lycopersicum]

[edit on 14-2-2010 by lycopersicum]

In clean up,the beams are not cut until all the other dangerous-to-work-around stuff has been removed first.Like that re-bar or conduit all over the NOT YET CLEANED site shown here.This debris would snag cables and hoses.
In clean up cutting,if a crane has been hooked up and putting upward pressure,one may cut at an angle,mostly done for a specific reason,like if you were actually concerned about the end left for some other purpose,such as leaving a projecting 'tab' to cut a hole into for crane hook attachment for extracation of the piece still left in the hole.[Extracation?Is this a word?)
As a final note,weren't there hoses of water dousing the pile for weeks after the false flag spectacle?This scene has not yet been doused.

PS One more thing,doncha think if this truly was a terrorist attack(OS)and there was nothing for a GUILTY of TREASON government to hide by terrorizing the first responders,etc,the photographer and responders shewn would have cleared this question(in some minds)a long time ago?

[edit on 14-2-2010 by trueforger]

Move along, nothing to see here...
except for the precision-cut steel beams that were melted by nano-thermate... uh... I mean jet fuel, yeah... jet fuel

[edit on 14-2-2010 by avatar01]