Can children go to Hell?

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam
Shouldn't this be in the Religion forum? It's based on a premise that hell exists and presumes a standard definition of what hell actually is.

Perhaps, and if the mods feel it does, then by all means re-forum it, but i personaly view this thread more as an exercise of the mind to compare the thoughts of others to mine and broaden my own perspective.

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam
Okay, based on Catholic dogma - none of the children in the 3 examples would go to hell.

First, the Catholics divide "mortal" and "venial" sins. Mortal sins send one to the Catholic version of hell.

Second, to be a "mortal sin" - there are many conditions. One is explicit planning and foreknowledge. (There are several other conditions that must also exist.)

None of the children PLANNED the deaths.
None of the children KNEW their actions would cause a death.

It's pretty clear that these kids would not qualify for a Catholic hell.

Now, you'd have to check this against all the other religions; but, I presume the kids wouldn't go to any other religion's hell either.

OK, you brought up the Catholic view, but consider this: You say "None of the children PLANNED the deaths.
None of the children KNEW their actions would cause a death."

Do you beleive that exempts them from them responsibility of thier actions?

Ex. 3) It wasn't until after the child killed himself that the bullies grew into more loving people, yet they played a major role in the suicide of that child. Under your beliefs, are they exempt from their actions?

what about the child that killed himself? Was it ok and understandable to do such a thing?

im simply intrested in the replies of others and how they compare to mine.
thanx for your reply


[edit on 14-2-2010 by H4W4II4N_PUNCH]

Originally posted by amazing
There is no way any god would allow a child to go to hell.

Any God? What about the ones that reside there?

People should stop assuming that the word "god" automatically refers to a benevolent entity.

Originally posted by kawacat
reply to post by Pericle

 

No way,



Hitler does not go where these souls went.

How can you believe that?

That murderer killed millions of people - he is not where they are.

I see your point, but it is based on a certain type of judgment. One that cannot accept that we are all the same in essence.

Hitler did not kill, as in literally himself, millions, he created the circumstances that lead to that. He is no different from you or me. He was a human which made some wrong choices on Earth that led up to that.

There is another approach that says that we as a civilization created, demanded, attracted the horrors of WW II. The Jews and Hitler where the ones to carry it out, anyone else could have taken their place. Also bear in mind that in Russia and China more people died in that period, closely to 50 million. Maybe Hitler is not such a bad guys after all.

I am not saying that Hitler is a good guy, on Earth that is, what I try to portray is that no matter the actions you do on Earth, when you die you are not judged, rewarded or punished by anyone, you received no label like saint or devil. The only one that can judge you is yourself to push you to be better and learn and advance forward.

All souls that come on Earth are here for the experience it offers. All prejudice and other human creations dissipate once you leave this plane. So if you use the same human judgment for events that are beyond this Earth, you are wrong to think Hitler or anyone is in Hell or Heaven. This duality does not exist.

But to get back to topic, hell is a place of introspection and isolation that souls chose to live in in order to transcend a certain state of being. This is done only by their own will. Sometimes you have to be lost to find your path again. But hell as we general picture it does not exist and you do not go to hell as a punishment for your actions here.

Hell and Heaven are human creations. We live countless human lives to gain experience as souls. Hell and Heaven go against this purpose of knowledge and wisdom. If all we have is one life and then eternal life in Hell or Heaven, then that is a very biased and short experience of life. Souls are after an integrated and holistic experience, that which can take all possible shapes here on Earth, from a criminal to a living saint.

Again to answer the thread question, children that do things that we could label as evil will not go to hell as a result, nor will they go in heaven. These are human terminologies based on a human experience that we use to explain something that has no such basis of existence.

Also when you add the fact that usually souls that come on Earth know what life they will have, then the whole process takes a different shape. We chose this life and the experience, we are responsible for it and we must make the best of it.

A better question would be why would a soul incarnate in a life where he dies at an early age or he kills people? There are plenty of answers to that too.

Interesting question and how it relates to hell.
I believe in the Buddhist philosophy of Karma.

Our actions , good or bad weigh on our Karma, which is analogous to a credit rating of the soul for example.

These children, being children wouldn't carry the same Karmic burden for their acts as an adult would.

Karma is carried over from one incarnation to another.

On the topic of Hell, there are many accounts of near death experiences where the individual encounters not a white light experience but the complete opposite, or darkness and evil.

Here is a fairly well known account of a college professor, who also was an devout atheist, whom after dying experienced Hell and after his near death experience converted his beliefs and actually became an ordained Minister as a result.
An interesting perspective on the concept of the existence of Hell.


www.near-death.com...

Originally posted by H4W4II4N_PUNCH

Originally posted by jackflap

I beg to differ. What about the thief on the cross next to Jesus? He had never been baptized and I do believe Jesus told him he was going to be in Heaven. What of all of the first born of Egypt? Do you believe they went to hell because they were misled?

I don't want to start quoting scripture but I can. There are examples where a child dies and goes to Heaven in the Bible. If God can create the universe and allow us to carry on this conversation, do you really think He would be limited to what you perceive of Him?

Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

NICE!!! Great questions and examples

...Answers anyone?

Yes, I have a question. How do you know the thief was never baptized? Does it say that in the bible or are you just assuming because he was a thief?

reply to post by theyreadmymind

How do you know the thief was never baptized? Does it say that in the bible or are you just assuming because he was a thief?

Good catch theyredmymind. I am assuming that he was never baptized because he was a thief. Baptism is an outward display of an inward change. Death to the old and re birth of the new. Since the Bible clearly stated that he was a thief and was now on a cross, I assumed that there was no change but you are right, he could have been baptized and it was never known!

God doesn't send anyone to hell.

The question to ask is not whether God will condemn these children, it is whether these children will be able to rise above condemning themselves.

My heart goes out to children (and adults even) who, by mistake, do something that will haunt them for the rest of their lives. Of course, we all have plenty of memories that will haunt us if we allow them to. All that self-hatred does is prevent us from realizing the Truth, that we are all connected.

Namaste.

Originally posted by H4W4II4N_PUNCH
You say "None of the children PLANNED the deaths.
None of the children KNEW their actions would cause a death."

Do you beleive that exempts them from them responsibility of thier actions?

Ex. 3) It wasn't until after the child killed himself that the bullies grew into more loving people, yet they played a major role in the suicide of that child. Under your beliefs, are they exempt from their actions?

what about the child that killed himself? Was it ok and understandable to do such a thing?

[edit on 14-2-2010 by H4W4II4N_PUNCH]

The children in example 3 would be exempt from "hell" according to most religions because they did not MAKE the child commit suicide. They did not PLAN on murdering him. They did not KNOW in advance that their actions would cause a suicide.

HAD they PLANNED AND KNOWN in ADVANCE that the child would commit suicide - Then, and only then would that condemn them.

Whether they made amends later is irrelevant. According to the dogma I described (Catholicism) - a "mortal" sin is exactly that - "mortal" - as in death of the soul.

Now, LEGAL culpability is a completely different issue ... and the laws of MAN have no effect whatsoever on the supposed destination in the supposed afterlife.

If the bullies grew into more loving people is irrelevant.

Therefore they are NOT exempted from responsibility for their actions. They are exempted from "hell" though.

Suicide is a "mortal" sin by the Catholic dogma you know.

===============================================
Now you want MY beliefs personally?

I still say the children made a tragic mistake and that their misdeeds will haunt them (rightfully) for the rest of their life. THAT should be HELL enough.

They could make amends until the sun expired, it would never be "enough". Bullies are innately bad people. You can't change that. People don't change, they just fool themselves and sometimes others.

I also personally believe as another poster said - hell is REALLY a misinterpretation and actually isn't in the Bible.

Originally posted by H4W4II4N_PUNCH

is there a true age to maturity?

The human brain completes it's development around the age of 23 and we reach our moral majority at around 30.

Yet legally, at least in the UK, we are legally culpable at the age of 10.

As for children going to hell, no I don't believe this is possible as there is nothing so precious on all the earth as the innocence of a child.

reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH

Punch,
You say you are seriously interested in the answers. I am not replying to ignite flames.
Your questions mix together two aspects of "guilt". One is civil, i.e. laws of men. This includes unwritten law, i.e. the common law. Usually an age of culpability is presented in these, so a person under some age of knowledge would prob not be considered "guilty", i.e. having knowledge aforethought. As to how long such guilt would extend, this depends on statutes of limitation, e.g. there is no extinction of cupability for murder whatever the age of the defendent when the crime is uncovered.

From a Christian framework, one is responsible for every action one commits. A Christian is said to be personally accountable and culpable for all actions he/she takes, whatever the age. The Catholic demonination has some disctintions among sins and I am not going to get into these and am referring only to evangelical (Bible-based) denominations.

Beyond personal culpablity for specific harmful behavior, the Christian perspective is that all are born sinful. We are corrupted (rebels) from birth onward because it comes naturally to us in flesh. In the Christian perspective, NO ONE IS CONDEMNED TO HELL because of the particular sins, the so-called score card but because of the human nature of rebellion and sinfulness. This is not to say the sins aren't important, but they serve as evidence to establish the truth that we all are sinful through and through. This is why Christians believe they need a savior. This is why Jesus' emphasis on "being born again" in the spirit and not in the flesh. We are supposed to become spiritually "new creations". As such sin is supposed to become repugant....but this doesn't mean sinless. As long as human beings are in the flesh in this world, we will continue to sin.

reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH


I don't know about children GOING to hell... but I know a few who have lived there... and were later able to talk about it.

Feral Children

Originally posted by SaturnFX
and now for the correct answer....no "I feel" nonsense but the pure unadulterated facts
A child not baptised will in fact, according to a very freaking clear understanding of the bible, go straight into the burning hellfire pit the christians seem to cherish. If you dont like it, I suggest you take it up with God/Jesus or invent a time machine and slap those fools in the head that wrote it in a pretty black and white way.

There is no reference in the Bible to your notion that baptism or reading the Bible or lack of these is a prerequisite for assessing someone's fate. You are mixing up some things.

I have a tendency to avoid theological discussions for different reasons.
Even so, I felt compelled to answer this one.
Barring any developmental issues, most children reach the "age of reason" during adolescence. This occurs anywhere between the ages of 7 through 9.
This "age of reason" enables a child to use the foundation of personal knowledge that's already been accumulated in order to make logical deductions. Thereby empowering the child with the ability to "reason things out."
The Biblical stance is that the difference between right and wrong is written in everyone's heart. The Bible claims that those who have not heard the Gospel of Truth will be judged by what is written in their heart.
Although I really didn't answer the original question in a definitive manner, I hope this much is helpful enough to keep the discussion going.

reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH


What happens after we die were studied for thousands of years ago-Per today we have the equipment to actually know what happens. One of the men that actually did alot of research on this were the nazi doctor Dr.Mengele. The us government found his research archive and started study this aswell. In the 90s we discovered what actually happens, We normal people will not be "informed" about this on our regular news\newspapers for a long time,this is because we are not ready YET to accept\understand or even grasp at information that advance..But if you search some i belive one of the top-secret information is hidden here on ATS. In the older archives.

But to end your question. There is no "hell", so the answer would be, no children do not go to "hell", and neither do anyone else. Also one of the reasons for why this havent been informed for the general public is for example strong religious belives about "heaven\hell". What would religous people say if they were proven their theory WRONG, you can just imagine.

If you wonder about these things,listen to Doctor Kaku, he will inform "some" of his knowledge for you, knowledge wich he is allowed to inform the general public, but even this is hard for us to understand.

Wish you good luck.

Originally posted by nh_ee

Interesting question and how it relates to hell.
I believe in the Buddhist philosophy of Karma.

Our actions , good or bad weigh on our Karma, which is analogous to a credit rating of the soul for example.

These children, being children wouldn't carry the same Karmic burden for their acts as an adult would.

Karma is carried over from one incarnation to another.

On the topic of Hell, there are many accounts of near death experiences where the individual encounters not a white light experience but the complete opposite, or darkness and evil.

Here is a fairly well known account of a college professor, who also was an devout atheist, whom after dying experienced Hell and after his near death experience converted his beliefs and actually became an ordained Minister as a result.
An interesting perspective on the concept of the existence of Hell.


www.near-death.com...

Very interesting reply!!! these are the kind of responses i am looking for. Everyone is sharing their own thoughts on the subject and i am learning so much that i previously did not know. the concept of 'Hell' may have many definitions, but just because people dont believe it, doesnt mean its not there right?

basicly it "does" come down to your own experiences that can lead a devout atheist college professor into an ordained Minister.

food for thought.

[edit on 14-2-2010 by H4W4II4N_PUNCH]

reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH


Just my opinion but I dont believe there is a "HELL".

We are God. Hell or heaven are within ourselves. If we find ourselves in hell is because we asked for it - I am not talking about "punishment", I am talking about what the soul seeks to develop himself - even if the mind does not know.
Just need to be courageous and "get out of there". Hell is in our mind. "Your heart is free, don't be afraid to follow it".

[edit on 14-2-2010 by pai mei]

reply to post by pai mei


I liked that post you made my friend! You had me thinking. I even came across something that almost matches it when I was looking something else up.

Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Originally posted by pai mei
We are God. Hell or heaven are within ourselves. If we find ourselves in hell is because we asked for it - I am not talking about "punishment", I am talking about what the soul seeks to develop himself - even if the mind does not know.
Just need to be courageous and "get out of there". Hell is in our mind. "Your heart is free, don't be afraid to follow it".

[edit on 14-2-2010 by pai mei]

Nicely said

I very much agree with your perspective Follow your HEART over the crowd.

thank you for sharig your thoughts.

Originally posted by UrbanShaman
God doesn't send anyone to hell.

The question to ask is not whether God will condemn these children, it is whether these children will be able to rise above condemning themselves.

My heart goes out to children (and adults even) who, by mistake, do something that will haunt them for the rest of their lives. Of course, we all have plenty of memories that will haunt us if we allow them to. All that self-hatred does is prevent us from realizing the Truth, that we are all connected.

Namaste.

AWESOME POST!!!! Its only if we allow these memories to haunt us, that it puts us in a state of Self-hatred which can be defined as "HELL" for that particular individual!!! These are the kind of responses i am looking for to know, FOR MYSELF, that there are other like minded people that have also come to the same conclusions based on their own personal experiences

THANK YOU for your post

much appreciated