Shanksville forest damage conflicts with official story?, page 1
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Topic started on 12-2-2010 @ 12:00 AM by ATH911
Here's an aerial photo taken on 9/12 that shows the aftermath of something exploding in the forest and causing major damage to a section of trees, including breaking off the tops of some, and also fire damage:






Let's piece together the official story to see what supposedly caused the damaged to the forest:

[Wally Miller] explained how the cockpit broke off at impact, bouncing into a wooded area of about 60 acres. The resulting fireball scorched about eight acres of trees, he said.
The remainder of the plane burrowed deep into the ground, creating a long, narrow crater.

UA93 Memorial Ambassador:
Parts of the cockpit broke off and went back into the woods, but the rest of it went straight down and the ground came in around it, so the actual hole wasn't very large. When the FBI went in for parts, body parts and what not, 35 to 40 feet down in the ground.

According to investigators, the cockpit of the aircraft separated from the plane upon impact and flew into the trees, where it disintegrated.
----------------------
A reporter for a Harrisburg public radio station, Lambert said Flight 93's impact hurled the plane's cockpit and first-class section onto the wooded land that has been in his family since 1930.



So Flight 93's cockpit section broke off from hitting the ground and was hurled into the woods where it exploded and disintegrated, causing severe damaged to the section of the forest adjacent to where UA93 supposedly crashed.


My question is, what's stored in a 757's cockpit to make it EXPLODE?


As mentioned in the official stories above, the remainder of the plane burrowed deep into the ground (see more reports saying most of UA93 buried here.).

One of the landowners even says:
The plane "went in the ground so fast it didn’t have a chance to burn," says Jim.


This means only the 757's cockpit could have caused the forest damage, but I'm unaware of anything stored in the cockpit to make it explode like a bomb and cause fire damage.


So by that, the official story conflicts with the forest damage.




(I know the story about the cockpit breaking off while the rest of the plane burrowing underground is absurd in itself -- both that most of a 757 could burrow and if most could, that the cockpit and not the tailsection would be the section that managed *not* to burrow also -- and deserves its own thread, but I'm just using the official story to question the damaged forest.)

[edit on 12-2-2010 by ATH911]


reply posted on 12-2-2010 @ 01:55 AM by PersonalChoice
I'm very glad this has been brought up, because it has bothered me for some time. I would love to hear some explanations on what exactly or how exactly this was caused.

***Someone should really post a aerial before and after shot****(The before shot is from around ten years before the event and the tree line had not been changed at all) B/c the OP's photos don't do justice to the actual amount of damage that was inflicted on the section of missing trees.

I have looked at these both specifically paying attention to this area of woods, and there is a large area of trees missing. Lets be clear also, these are very large trees. As you can tell from the OP's photo.


I don't buy this "cockpit/first class cabin broke off and was thrown into this section of the woods theory" there by chopping a rather large section of trees down or in half. First how exactly would the cockpit somehow break off moments before impact? Wouldn't all of the momentum of all of the boeing be moving downward, I realize or at least have assumed that there was a "splashing" effect of the fuel and small fragmented pieces that bounced in that direction. What has puzzled me though is there does not seem to be (at least in photgraphic or witness records) any large/heavy pieces found that could have created the damage left behind.

What it does appear like is that some kind of serious pressure/projectiles was sent in that direction with enough force to snap the trees completely in half. The charring appears to be from the explosion cloud. If I remember correctly the firemen on scene did not extinguish any fires at all, especially in the trees there.

What is interesting to note though, is that I read (I believe from some transcribed Norad tapes) that had they of had to fire on f93 that they were going to aim directly for the nose (or cockpit) I assumed with a burst of gunfire?

Also, if the cockpit section broke off and created the damage to the trees there wouldn't there have been at least the hijackers bodies found over in the woods? I really have a hard time understanding how 95 percent of the aircraft can be found in the crater...and all of the momentum of this giant aircraft be pushing behind the cockpit but yet it some how brakes off like a missile and shoots horizontally through the air impacting the trees about half way up completely obliterating them. Also, impact crater does not appear to reflect any kind of ricochet damage, it appears that the entire aircraft went into the crater?

Is it possible that the tiny fragments of aluminum bounced from the impact crater and then chopped in half a large section of the trees there?

Someone please explain this part of the impact damage. Would be interesting to understand what we are seeing.

[edit on 12-2-2010 by PersonalChoice]



reply posted on 12-2-2010 @ 04:54 AM by thedman
reply to post by PersonalChoice





don't buy this "cockpit/first class cabin broke off and was thrown into this section of the woods theory" there by chopping a rather large section of trees down or in half. First how exactly would the cockpit somehow break off moments before impact? Wouldn't all of the momentum of all of the boeing be moving downward, I realize or at least have assumed that there was a "splashing" effect of the fuel and small fragmented pieces that bounced in that direction. What has puzzled me though is there does not seem to be (at least in photgraphic or witness records) any large/heavy pieces found that could have created the damage left behind.


Forward 1/3 of aircraft broke off at impact. United 93 was traveling upside down and at speed of 580 mph at impact - literally faster than a
bullet. The section forward of the wings broke off and given the momentum continued into the woods disintergrating as it went.

As for explosion - there was over 5500 gallons of jet fuel on board at
impact. The fuel dispersed as an aerosol cloud ignited in massive fireball
burning the trees.

Aerial shot of damage pattern



Debris in woods












Notice aircraft tire and section of fuselage - heavy enough for you ?



Also, if the cockpit section broke off and created the damage to the trees there wouldn't there have been at least the hijackers bodies found over in the woods? I really have a hard time understanding how 95 percent of the aircraft can be found in the crater...and all of the momentum of this giant aircraft be pushing behind the cockpit but yet it some how brakes off like a missile and shoots horizontally through the air impacting the trees about half way up completely obliterating them. Also, impact crater does not appear to reflect any kind of ricochet damage, it appears that the entire aircraft went into the crater?


Body parts were recovered from the trees - in one case a tooth was found
lodged in the branches of a tree.

It was not 95% of the aircraft was found in impact crater. It was 95%
of the aircraft was found at the scene - rest either burned or fragmented
into pieces too small to recover


Bin with recovered aircraft debris




reply posted on 12-2-2010 @ 05:13 AM by K J Gunderson
Originally posted by thedman



Bin with recovered aircraft debris





What are the dimensions of that bin? Are we supposed to believe it contains 95% of an airliner? What is the point of this photo?


reply posted on 12-2-2010 @ 06:07 AM by hooper
reply to post by ATH911



Wow! This is one of the most twisted, convoluted, stressed out pieces of nonsense I've heard about 9/11.

So you have unilaterally decided that the photos indicate an explosion in the woods, you've mined a few quotes about the cockpit and determined that 9/11 was an inside job because there was nothing in the cockpit to explode.

To paraphase Casey Kasem:

"Keep your feet on the ground, but keep grasping for those straws"!


reply posted on 12-2-2010 @ 06:29 AM by hooper
reply to post by ATH911



Well your skeptic buddy thedman thinks an explosion caused that damage in the woods. Is he wrong?


No he doesn't, he thinks the exploding fuel caused the damage TO the woods. Well, him and the rest of humanity. All of whom, with the exception of you, are familiar with the concept of an airplane exploding when it crashes.

You, on the other hand think, for whatever reason, that people are telling you that the cockpit broke off and exploded in the woods.



reply posted on 12-2-2010 @ 06:47 AM by hooper
reply to post by ATH911



Here's an aerial photo taken on 9/12 that shows the aftermath of something exploding in the forest and causing major damage to a section of trees, including breaking off the tops of some, and also fire damage:


Please post the photo (even though I think I know which one it is) and please post your scientific evidence that something exploded IN the woods. Other than your very bias opinion.


reply posted on 12-2-2010 @ 08:21 AM by thedman
reply to post by K J Gunderson



It was one of 10 constructions bins aka dumpsters used to hold the aircraft debris






At the same time, the high winds that buffeted the area over the last few days have dislodged additional airplane parts – seat cushions, wiring, carpet fragments and pieces of metal – from trees near the crash site. "It's all aircraft parts, no human remains," Miller said. "We've collected them in 10 recycling bin-sized containers and eventually we'll turn them all over to United." –Wallace Miller



At a news conference, FBI agent Bill Crowley said that the field near Shanksville, Somerset County, has been turned over to the county coroner and that 95 percent of the plane found at the site has been turned over to United Airlines.



Evidence-gathering was halted Saturday afternoon and the pieces of United Airlines Flight 93 that had been recovered were turned over Sunday to the airline, with the exception of the flight data recorder and the voice recorder, which are being held and analyzed by the FBI, according to FBI agent Bill Crowley.

Crowley said the biggest piece of the plane that was recovered was a 6-by-7-foot piece of the fuselage skin, including about four windows. The heaviest piece, Crowley said, was part of an engine fan, weighing about 1,000 pounds.


After main recovery effort - Wallace Miller had crews make additional sweep


Over the weekend, about 300 volunteers combed a half-mile square around the crash site and found enough debris from the Boeing 757 to fill about one-third of a trash container.

Most of it was little more than thumbnail size -- "no bigger than a pop rivet holding two pieces of aluminum," Miller said yesterday -- that last week's rains washed from trees bordering the stretch of strip mine where the airliner crashed nose-first Sept. 11.



reply posted on 12-2-2010 @ 08:32 AM by thedman
reply to post by ATH911





Can you please paste the quote and source of that toothfairy tale?


You want the tootth? You cant handle the tooth.....


Miller's eye caught a flash of light 20 feet up in the branches of a hemlock tree. "I only noticed it because the sun happened to hit it at just the right angle," he says. A tree climber brought it down. It was a single tooth with a silver filling. Eventually it was matched to one of the passengers.




In the late fall of 2001, as Shaler and his colleagues were engaged in the slow work of conducting DNA tests on the thousands of fragments from Ground Zero, pathologists at the Pennsylvania and Pentagon sites were moving much more quickly. Many of the remains were burned and badly damaged, but identifiable. In Pennsylvania, Somerset County coroner Wallace E. Miller and his team scoured the "halo"—the field and woods surrounding the crater left when United Airlines Flight 93 plunged into the ground. The debris was everywhere. Trees were draped with scraps of luggage, clothing, bits of the fuselage and human remains. Walking through the crash site in the days after the attacks, Miller's eye caught a flash of light 20 feet up in the branches of a hemlock tree. "I only noticed it because the sun happened to hit it at just the right angle," he says. A tree climber brought it down. It was a single tooth with a silver filling. Eventually it was matched to one of the passengers.


Notice Wallace Miller reporting debris scattered EVERYWHERE around the impact site - not just in the crater

So why are fixated on the impact crater and that 95% was buried

Can see that forward part of aircraft broke off and went into the trees

An engine fan weighing 1/2 ton was found 300 yeards away after bouncing downhill

Your claim that 95% was buried is false.....


reply posted on 12-2-2010 @ 09:01 AM by K J Gunderson
Originally posted by thedman
reply to
post by K J Gunderson



It was one of 10 constructions bins aka dumpsters used to hold the aircraft debris


Out of all the things I said before, this was the only one you could address? That is pretty sad. Thanks though because replying to this proves you can read my posts. Ignoring all the points I brought up while doing it proves you have no answers and I stumped you. Thanks!
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