Former President Bill Clinton Rushed to N.Y. Hospital

reply to post by jkrog08

Look dude, I have CLEARLY stated my reasons, you do what you want. All YOU have shown me (and every other member on this site) is how immature, attention seeking, and ignorant you are, so congrats on that one.

More fallacies and if I had typed that I’d have a U2U in my box telling me I’ve been docked another 1,000 points. I’ve stuck to the topic, you’ve done everything in your power to divert the topic, this is the difference between the two of us. Stop bottle spinning and try to remain on topic, please.

And why in the HELL are you acting like this is some debate? You stated your opinion, I stated mine. That is it, I do not owe you, nor anyone a reason (which is painfully obvious to nearly everyone else, well anyone that is not trolling )

There you go again using words out of context.

Debate:

a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints

Friend, you were the one who started this exchange. You quoted me, out of context I may add, and when I tried to reel you back in you went left field. Any person of reasonable intelligence can read the exchange between us and come to this simple truth. If you are going to quote me, bash me and accuse me of things I have not done (which you did in your original post to me) you not only owe it to yourself to tell the truth and present evidence supporting your claims, you also owe it to ATS and those who seek to deny ignorance. I’m sorry, I don’t know you from a can of paint, and maybe you are a good user, but in this thread your interactions with me have been 100% unjustified and leave much to be desired.

why I do not wish anyone (except maybe serial killers, Hitler, etc, even then I just don't say anything,

You’re a hypocrite just like Novous said. So it’s fair to wish death on serial killers and Hitler (who I’ve previously mentioned) yet it is wrong to wish death on Clinton? Why? If one life was taken by Clinton is that not the same as the millions who Hitler called to be killed? Morally, what is the difference when a life is a life and unjustified actions and commands have resulted in the loss of life?

I surely try my best not to disrespect someone, let alone someone who did nothing but put our country in a budget surplus and tried his best to lead the country) dies, burns in hell, gets sicker, etc-

So because you think he did good for this country that justifies well wishes? In other words, what you’re saying is because he did something that may have benefitted you, he is an ok guy. Well, what about people in third world countries who suffer as a direct result of his foreign policy? What about the fact that there is compelling evidence, on ATS even, that shows there was no surplus?

it is a general type of human to human etiquette, no debate needed. So there AGAIN, I have gave you an answer for your redundant question that doesn't matter anyways, as this is not a fact vs fact issue, it is a matter of etiquette and ideology.

Who say’s it is a matter of etiquette? What you may deem as etiquette may be pure stupidity in the eyes of others. Your ideologies are not held by all so on what grounds are your ideologies correct while others who have differing ideologies incorrect? Is there a general consensus amongst the population (or ATS) that your way of thinking is correct?

NOW I am DONE wasting my time with you. If you still don't get it then oh well.

No, you’re wasting time with yourself, as you are completely in over your head with me and probably should have taken your own advice pages ago. You’ve lied, misconstrued what was said, have taken words out of context, have falsely accused me, rely on tomfoolery and other slight of hand shenanigans and simply go off topic because you’re predisposed to doing so.

You owe it to ATS readers to step up to the plate and take responsibility for your actions. Take the step or take your own advice.


[edit on 12-2-2010 by EMPIRE]

Originally posted by EMPIRE
Why should I or anyone else wish him well? Because it's a godly or loving thing to do? Because he was a president? Because he is a human being?

Just curious, do you know what a crack baby is? Are you wishing them well? After all, Clinton was heavily involved in the drug trade (just search ATS for proof and evidence) so why should I or anyone else devote kind words to him?

You should wish everyone well.

What you wish on someone else, you are inevitably wising upon your self.

Or, you can wallow in your own crap, once you wish it upon some one else.

reply to post by blujay

You should wish everyone well.

Why? Because of the following quote:

What you wish on someone else, you are inevitably wising upon your self.

What proof do you have that what you wish on someone else is what you inevitably wish on yourself? If I have a son who gets hit by a car, you're telling me that happened because I wished it on myself? If my S.O. was killed I wished it on myself? If I died of cancer I wished it on myself?

Or, you can wallow in your own crap, once you wish it upon some one else.

See above, if this is a case of reaping what you sow why should Bill Clinton be afforded well wishes?

Originally posted by ClintK


What total, laughable garbage. Not a single fact.

Tell that to the people who's children and grandchildren died in the day care center.
Tell that to Terrance Yeakey's family and friends.
Just keep this administration, this continuous adminstration because our elections don't count for sqat, just keep this administration happy that keep lying to us while they murder our babies.

By the by it is statistically impossible that so many of his exbodyguards could have died in such a short period of time
www.stewwebb.com...
Here you can watch three of them being gunned down by the ATS in Waco.
www.youtube.com...




[edit on 12-2-2010 by m khan]

reply to post by jkrog08


People are Free.

Explain your point once, and be done with it.

If they chose to ignore it the first time, they will only berate you the second time.

They will see the error of their ways in the end.

They may even save themselves just before the End.

If they respond negatively, leave it alone. Don't even reply.

If you really don't care about something, then don't waste the time on it.

reply to post by EMPIRE


You're twisting his words around to make it sound ignorant and ill-spoken.

Karma.

What you wish upon others, you are inevitably wishing upon yourself.

Your decision to believe in karma or not.

Don't change what someone says to sway the debate your way.

As for your.. hateful personality.

Have you lived your entire life perfectly?

Have you not made mistakes?

Put a normal man in a position of high power for one day, and he will most likely be on the verge of an anxiety attack worrying about screwing up.

Sit at the desk for four years(try 8), and it will almost inevitably happen at least once.

And stop pulling the "Innocence" card. You know DAMN well you're being hateful.

Pessimism doesn't suit anyone, in my opinion.

Ta.

reply to post by CleverNameHere

You're twisting his words around to make it sound ignorant and ill-spoken.

I’m not twisting anything and ignorant and ill-spoken is how you most likely feel about it. After all, those are your words not mine.

Karma.

As previously stated, if this is a case of reaping what you sow why should Bill Clinton be afforded well wishes?

What you wish upon others, you are inevitably wishing upon yourself.

Do you have any scientific or empirical evidence that suggests what you’re wishing on others you are wishing on yourself? I’m sure there are many psychologist who will disagree with you and say wishing, or hoping for certain outcomes, are not projections of ones personality and will never manifest in a way that may harm the person doing the wishing.

Your decision to believe in karma or not.

So it all goes back to a belief that others wish to force feed on those with opposing views. Gotcha.

Don't change what someone says to sway the debate your way.

Stop relying on lies and your predisposition to believe in whatever ideology you hold. I haven’t misconstrued or twisted what anyone has said.

As for your.. hateful personality.

On what grounds do you say I have a hateful personality? Because I expose the hypocrisy and idiocy of members? Because I question and continue to question in the face of adversity? Because I ask why anyone should send well wishes his way? Just curious, do you have any training in behavioral psychology or any field remotely related to personalities and how they are defined? If yes, do tell, if not, how did you arrive at your assessment?

Have you lived your entire life perfectly?

I haven’t lived my entire life as I am still living. In regards to perfection, that is up for debate. What exactly is perfection?

Have you not made mistakes?

This depends on what you define as a mistake.

Put a normal man in a position of high power for one day, and he will most likely be on the verge of an anxiety attack worrying about screwing up.

How do you know this?

Sit at the desk for four years(try 8), and it will almost inevitably happen at least once.

I can see you’ve failed to read the claims others and myself have made about Clinton.

And stop pulling the "Innocence" card. You know DAMN well you're being hateful.

There is nothing in my posts that can be defined as hate so how do you know I’m being hateful? If you read my posts, the majority have been question upon question based on inductive and deductive reasoning that members such as yourself refuse to answer.

Pessimism doesn't suit anyone, in my opinion.

Ta.

Your opinions are your opinions, they pretty much only matter to you. Yes, I’m replying, but I’m replying for my own sake and for the sake of ATS users who stand for truth and justice, not because I value your opinion.


[edit on 13-2-2010 by EMPIRE]

reply to post by EMPIRE

As previously stated, if this is a case of reaping what you sow why should Bill Clinton be afforded well wishes?

He is an imperfect human being. You cannot say you would have done better in his shoes, as you never have been or will be in his shoes.

It doesn't matter why he should be afforded well wishes. Life doesn't work that way. You can ask that question for almost anything; there is no answer for it. You haven't been in the man's head; neither have I.

Why shouldn't he be afforded well wishes?

Do you have any scientific or empirical evidence that suggests what you’re wishing on others you are wishing on yourself? I’m sure there are many psychologist who will disagree with you and say wishing, or hoping for certain outcomes, are not projections of ones personality and will never manifest in a way that may harm the person doing the wishing.

I am a schizophrenic. Whenever I start thinking negatively, my mind begins to wander, and I end up having to catch myself before it goes too far.

Psychologists will be the first ones to AGREE that your mindset throughout the day creates your mood and how you live your life.

Why think negatively when positive thinking is proven to be healthy for you?

So it all goes back to a belief that others wish to force feed on those with opposing views. Gotcha.

It doesn't matter if people force something on you or not; it is your decision to let it be forced even more, or to walk away.

If it means nothing to you, treat it as if it were nothing. To spend the time to address it only makes others see a weakness in your side of the debate, and they will continue to use it to try and undermine your position.

And yes. Everything goes back to beliefs that others wished to force feed on those with opposing views. That is how the world goes round.

Stop relying on lies and your predisposition to believe in whatever ideology you hold. I haven’t misconstrued or twisted what anyone has said.

What proof do you have that what you wish on someone else is what you inevitably wish on yourself? If I have a son who gets hit by a car, you're telling me that happened because I wished it on myself? If my S.O. was killed I wished it on myself? If I died of cancer I wished it on myself?

"What you wish on someone else, you are inevitably wising upon your self. "

I don't think you understand this completely. You may have responded before you were able to think it through.

He didn't say "if something happens, you wished it upon yourself." He said, "What you wish on someone else, you are inevitably wising upon your self."

If you have a son who gets hit by a car, it would only be relevant if you had wished for anothers' child to get hit by a car. Otherwise, it is off topic of his original point, whether it be opinion or not.

Do you see where you twisted his words around yet?

On what grounds do you say I have a hateful personality? Because I expose the hypocrisy and idiocy of members? Because I question and continue to question in the face of adversity? Because I ask why anyone should send well wishes his way? Just curious, do you have any training in behavioral psychology or any field remotely related to personalities and how they are defined? If yes, do tell, if not, how did you arrive at your assessment?

You are aggressive with how you approach things. You say others force their beliefs on you, yet you stampede through threads with YOUR OWN BELIEFS, and then berate anyone who says otherwise.

Hypocrisy doesn't dwell well here. You should know that, you've been registered for 5 years. I would think someone who's been interested in these things for so long would be more careful with their arguments, rather than sloppy.

I haven’t lived my entire life as I am still living. In regards to perfection, that is up for debate. What exactly is perfection?

Anything and everything can be put up to debate. What exactly is perfection? What exactly is soil? What exactly is radio waves?

To say we know facts through science is ignorance. Science is based upon the idea that at any given time, something can be discovered and changed everything.

What we "know" know is only a crude understanding of our surroundings.

Perfection is a term created by an imperfect race of beings striving to be something they made up to understand their own ideals.

Nice job avoiding the question, though.

This depends on what you define as a mistake.

"mis⋅take
–noun
1. an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.
2. a misunderstanding or misconception."




You continue to say others are not answering your questions, and yet you avoid a few yourself.

I believe I've already mentioned hypocrisy.

How do you know this?

How do you not? Have you never felt stress, failure, fear of failure? Have you never worried?

It isn't something you can explain. You must experience it for yourself to truly understand how the human mind works.

I can see you’ve failed to read the claims others and myself have made about Clinton.

I try not to rely on the "facts" the media have shown us isn't all that "reliable."

Unless you were there, you cannot know what really happened.

After all, the government can blame anything they want on anyone. Who says they didn't undermind his authority, screw up, and then blame it on him, knowing we would believe their story over his?

There is nothing in my posts that can be defined as hate so how do you know I’m being hateful? If you read my posts, the majority have been question upon question based on inductive and deductive reasoning that members such as yourself refuse to answer.

Simply because you are not given the answer you were looking for, does not, in any way, conclude that the answer is incorrect.

As for the "hate," I've already redefined it as "aggressive." Better?

Your opinions are your opinions, they pretty much only matter to you. Yes, I’m replying, but I’m replying for my own sake and for the sake of ATS users who stand for truth and justice, not because I value your opinion.

^Practice what you preach.

Ta.

He is an imperfect human being. You cannot say you would have done better in his shoes, as you never have been or will be in his shoes.

By that same token, there is no way you can say I wouldn’t do better because according to you, he is imperfect, and you don’t know if I would or wouldn’t do a better job.

It doesn't matter why he should be afforded well wishes. Life doesn't work that way. You can ask that question for almost anything; there is no answer for it. You haven't been in the man's head; neither have I.

How can you say the “why” doesn’t matter when your version of “why” is linked to Karma and other ideologies you hold? Moreover, you are correct, I’m not in the mans head just as you aren’t in my head nor anyone else’s head, yet you judge us by our words and falsely attribute our difference of opinions to hate, aggression and whatever it is you conjure up. This man, Bill Clinton, was being judged by his actions and truth be told, many people here have a valid point when it comes to his actions and how they led to unjustified death and not deserving any sympathy or well wished.

Why shouldn't he be afforded well wishes?

Read some of the replies by other posters. There are many compelling reasons as to why he shouldn’t but not one compelling reason, other than previously held ideologies, as to why he should.

I am a schizophrenic. Whenever I start thinking negatively, my mind begins to wander, and I end up having to catch myself before it goes too far.

I have no comment.

Psychologists will be the first ones to AGREE that your mindset throughout the day creates your mood and how you live your life.

Nothing I’ve said has to do with your mindset throughout the day and how it may create a certain mood. Therefore, telling me psychologist may agree about it is highly irrelevant and completely off topic. Again, you said what you wish upon others you wish upon yourself. Do you have any evidence to support this claim? If no we can move on, if yes, post the information for all to examine.

Why think negatively when positive thinking is proven to be healthy for you?

What is positive or negative is a matter of personal experience, opinion, preference, bias or predisposition. You may feel it is negative to wish death, however, one may feel it is a positive thing to wish death. For example, in the debate forum there is a debate about assassinating dictators. I suggest you read the debate as it may be of use to you.

It doesn't matter if people force something on you or not; it is your decision to let it be forced even more, or to walk away.

It does matter, especially when people are saying I’m wrong and accusing myself and others of behaving in a certain fashion yet offering no substantial evidence to validate their claims.

If it means nothing to you, treat it as if it were nothing. To spend the time to address it only makes others see a weakness in your side of the debate, and they will continue to use it to try and undermine your position.

You know nothing of debate. Here I’ll prove it: what is my premise?

And yes. Everything goes back to beliefs that others wished to force feed on those with opposing views. That is how the world goes round.

You’ve just lost your premise and contradict what you’ve previously typed!

I don't think you understand this completely. You may have responded before you were able to think it through. He didn't say "if something happens, you wished it upon yourself." He said, "What you wish on someone else, you are inevitably wising upon your self."

No, I thought it through completely you just don’t want to address it. There is no evidence to suggest that wishing something on others is inevitably wishing something on yourself, and with all the karma talk going on in this thread, it is only natural to assume the person implied it would inevitably happen. If it is not a case of it inevitably happening, there is no need to warn anyone period and no need to mention karma.

If you have a son who gets hit by a car, it would only be relevant if you had wished for anothers' child to get hit by a car. Otherwise, it is off topic of his original point, whether it be opinion or not.

No, it is relevant because we’re now talking about karma (something I never introduced) and it was cited as an example of how one can experience misfortune yet be totally innocent when it comes to wrong doing or ill will.

Do you see where you twisted his words around yet? You are aggressive with how you approach things

His words were never twisted, you simply don’t know how to read critically. There is nothing in my posts that signal aggression, hostility, malice or anything remotely negative. Most of my posts have been questions, questions yourself and others either misinterpret or completely avoid because you lack the capacity to address them.

You say others force their beliefs on you, yet you stampede through threads with YOUR OWN BELIEFS, and then berate anyone who says otherwise.

More lies. If I ever did such a thing I’d have warnings next to my name and be in the red when it comes to ATS points. I’m not even going to ask you to post proof because you’re incapable of doing it so I’ll move on.

Hypocrisy doesn't dwell well here. You should know that, you've been registered for 5 years. I would think someone who's been interested in these things for so long would be more careful with their arguments, rather than sloppy.

How is the length I’ve been here remotely related to what we’re discussing? Do you see me saying you aren’t making sense because you’re schizophrenic? No, you see me saying you don’t make sense and providing evidence to support the claim. Does your mental condition a contributing factor? Who knows? But is it important? No, but since you’re so interested in my time on ATS, I only made my first post in AUGUST 2009. In regards to being sloppy, again, you simply lack the ability to use inductive and deductive reasoning to arrive at logical conclusions, so I expect you to type the things you type.

Anything and everything can be put up to debate. What exactly is perfection? What exactly is soil? What exactly is radio waves?

If everything is up for debate why did you bring it up in the first place? If it’s up for debate why say someone is wrong yet offer no evidence to support the claim? And contrary to what you believe, everything is not up for debate.

To say we know facts through science is ignorance. Science is based upon the idea that at any given time, something can be discovered and changed everything. What we "know" know is only a crude understanding of our surroundings.

You aren’t making much sense right now.

Nice job avoiding the question, though.

I didn’t avoided anything. You asked me questions I gave you answers and asked you more questions. If you’re going to ask me about mistakes, it is only logical that we first define what a mistake is because what you view as a mistake may not be a mistake to me and vice versa. You ask about living my entire life and perfection yet these are also matters of opinion or personal experience. You posted the definition of mistake, but does the absence of mistake mean perfection? Based on your definition my answer is yes and no. Yes because I could list something and you can call it a mistake. No because I can list something and myself or others will either say it was the correct thing to do, or may say I was predestined (not predisposed) to doing it anyway. Does that mean I should not be held responsible? No. Does that mean it was a mistake? Hardly.

You continue to say others are not answering your questions, and yet you avoid a few yourself. I believe I've already mentioned hypocrisy.

Like others, you need to stop using words out of context. Moreover, I didn’t avoid anything. I answered in a way that would force you to clarify yourself and force me into a corner.

How do you not? Have you never felt stress, failure, fear of failure? Have you never worried? It isn't something you can explain. You must experience it for yourself to truly understand how the human mind works.

You’re answering a question with a question. You made the claim that if we put a “normal man” (whatever that is) in a position of power that he would suffer from anxiety attacks. However, you’ve yet to define what a normal man is and are implying that Bill Clinton is an abnormal man. Now if this is the case, when it comes to decision-making and morality, should he be held to a higher or lower standard? Moreover, how do you know what the average man would do if we’ve yet to test things out by putting the average man in there?

I try not to rely on the "facts" the media have shown us isn't all that “reliable." Unless you were there, you cannot know what really happened.

I said nothing of the media. I said other members and myself, i.e. your peers and ATS. If we apply your logic no one would be convicted of murder unless their was airtight eye witness testimony and proof. In fact, conviction based on circumstantial evidence wouldn’t even exist if we apply your train of thought. And before you say this is off topic, it isn’t as being present at an event is not a prerequisite to truth. However, what we do know, for a fact, is Clinton had an aspirin factory bombed. That is fact. Click the link I provided and educate yourself.

After all, the government can blame anything they want on anyone. Who says they didn't undermind his authority, screw up, and then blame it on him, knowing we would believe their story over his?

See above and refer to posts by previous members.

Simply because you are not given the answer you were looking for, does not, in any way, conclude that the answer is incorrect.

The only answer I’m looking for is a logical answer. So far, no one on your side of the fence has presented a logical answer (an answer based on inductive and deductive reasoning and not belief and pure speculation.)

As for the "hate," I've already redefined it as "aggressive." Better?

No, it’s actually worse as your implying I’m in the wrong and absolving others for their actions. If I were “aggressive” my aggression would be justified, yet I’m here as calm as can be and continue to expose the hypocrisy of yourself and people who think as you.

^Practice what you preach.

I am. I do it in every post and you should try it sometime.


[edit on 13-2-2010 by EMPIRE]

reply to post by EMPIRE


This is my last post.

I do not believe in Karma, I'm simply educated in what it stands for.

I do not believe in Christianity, but when someone is bashing it with lies and hatred, I will defend it to the truth; not on it's reality.

This has gotten off topic, then spread to off topic of the off topic.

"What you wish upon others, you are inevitably wishing it upon yourself."

You took what he said, and began asking, "If I have a son who is killed in a car crash, I wished it upon myself?"

I explained that THAT would only be relevant if you had wished an others child to die in a car crash. He did not say that whatever happens to you, you wished it upon yourself.

# happens in normal life. To everyone. Karma believes that if you are good, good will come of it. If you are not good, good will most likely not come from it.

If a grown man strikes another man for no reason, the man who took the hit will most likely respond in kind.

It is a very simple belief system, which is good, as complexity breeds corruption.

I do not believe in Karma. I believe in love, and hate. I believe in anger, and happiness. I believe in greed, and morality.

I believe in that which you cannot see, but you can feel. Things that are in my memory.

I believe in emotions, feelings. I believe in my senses. I don't trust them all the time, but I believe in them.

To be able to feel something that you cannot see, that even science cannot explain with complete accuracy; those are my miracles.

I believe that religion is a tool of the mind for the vast majority, but that quite a few excel at embracing death in confidence with themselves.

I believe in emotions, feelings. I believe in my senses. I don't trust them all the time, but I believe in them.

I believe that I will never know what will come next. I believe that even if I knew what would come next, I would still have to wait for it until I knew it was true.

I believe in a lot of things; but not karma.

I believe this conversation is over.

reply to post by CleverNameHere

This is my last post.

O.K.

I do not believe in Karma, I'm simply educated in what it stands for.

Yet you cited Karma as a reason why one should not wish ill on another.

I do not believe in Christianity, but when someone is bashing it with lies and hatred, I will defend it to the truth; not on it's reality.

The thing is no one is bashing Karma, or the belief of Karma with lies and hatred. Again, you cited Karma as to why one should not wish ill, I didn’t.

This has gotten off topic, then spread to off topic of the off topic.

Only because yourself and others have remained off topic. My original questions pertain to the OP’s original post and second post.

You took what he said, and began asking, "If I have a son who is killed in a car crash, I wished it upon myself?" I explained that THAT would only be relevant if you had wished an others child to die in a car crash. He did not say that whatever happens to you, you wished it upon yourself.

I explained to you that it is relevant. As previously stated, there is no evidence to suggest that wishing something on others is inevitably wishing something on yourself, and with all the karma talk going on in this thread, it is only natural to assume the person implied it would inevitably happen. If it is not a case of it inevitably happening, there is no need to warn anyone period and no need to mention karma.

Pay attention to the bold because you obviously missed it.

# happens in normal life. To everyone. Karma believes that if you are good, good will come of it. If you are not good, good will most likely not come from it.

So if you’re good then good will come, but if you’re not good then good “will most likely not come from it”? So according to you, there is a possibility that bad may not happen as you said it is “most likely” (meaning not 100% sure/guaranteed) good will not come from it.

If a grown man strikes another man for no reason, the man who took the hit will most likely respond in kind.

Most likely? He may fall to ground and sleep until someone wakes him. He may take the hit and walk away. The point is, the other poster implied wishing ill on someone would inevitably happen to the person doing the wishing. Regardless of what you say, you haven’t proved otherwise. If this is not the case, there would be no need to even mention inevitably wishing something on yourself as there is no proof inevitably wishing something on yourself will result in something ill.

It is a very simple belief system, which is good, as complexity breeds corruption.

I do not believe in Karma. I believe....

All of these things are great, and as I said pages ago, I believe Bill Clinton should reap what he has sown. There is nothing wrong with believing in opposites, duality, cause and reaction, etc, but what I’m saying is there is no proof wishing ill on someone is inevitably wishing ill on yourself or that it will inevitably happen.

I believe in a lot of things; but not karma.

Yet you cite it as proof.

I believe this conversation is over.

You got that right.