I will admit I know not much about evolution, but one thing that puzzles me the most is the eye.

For one thing, I don't 'get' how the brain knew what to turn the data the eye sees into what it is.

Secondly, how did whatever it is that evolved the eye know about visual reality in the first place?

Does this mean there are other senses that we don't have an organ to view it because we haven't evolved it yet? If this is the case, then the reason we haven't evolved it yet is because we don't know it exists - right?

So how did we know sight existed to have evolved it in the first place?

I hope someone can explain it to me. Thanks.

Because God gave us eyes when he created us? Isn't that the most logical answer?

Originally posted by Blueracer
Because God gave us eyes when he created us? Isn't that the most logical answer?

Yes, that is good answer. I didn't want to bring any religions ideas in here but you are right.

We were given the gift of sight by something other than a natural process - something that knew what it was and what it would've meant to us. I believe that, but I don't know if that's because I don't know enough facts about the evolution of the eye or whether it is because it is the most logical answer.


EDIT: Of course then another question comes up - who gave GOD eyes? Sure, you can say he is something beyond our comprehension and so we can't possibly know but it is still a valid question.

Also, some people when I ask them these questions will say "well, the eyes evolved from the photosensitive lenses that early animals had". BUT I still don't get.. how these early animals could develop the lenses in the first place.. like how did their evolutionary process know that light existed in the first place? What else could exist right in front of us that we haven't developed something to observe it?

[edit on 11/2/10 by Nventual]

Originally posted by Blueracer
Because God gave us eyes when he created us? Isn't that the most logical answer?

Yup. Why else would "God" create light and not make some sort of mechanism for "Us" to perceive the light.

Evolution is more of a stretch for the imagination than believing in a Creator.

And I've never been religious, I was actually taught evolution in school and made to believe this is how we came about... but once I started thinking for myself it became obvious. Someone MADE all this stuff!

[edit on 11-2-2010 by avatar01]

Originally posted by Nventual

Originally posted by Blueracer
Because God gave us eyes when he created us? Isn't that the most logical answer?

Yes, that is good answer. I didn't want to bring any religions ideas in here but you are right.

What? Go away with that nonsense..

Im no biologist.. most biology I did was for three years in secondary school but this is an obvious one for me.

Over millions of years, as organisms became more defined and multi celled, complex organisms developed areas on their bodies that were sensitive to light. As they evolved, this area of sensitivity became utilized in their instincts and became useful in finding shelter, sensing predators and even food and therefore through natural selection and breeding, became a more defined area in the bodies of animals.. these area's began to move, lubricate themselves, hair began to grow around them to protect them, eyelids began to form to protect them etc etc.

Because of the need for instinctual and quick response, it grew closer to the brain over the millions of years. Also, as specific animals were using these sensitive areas for different purposes, some developed no more than black and white or blurry vision while others can see ten times farther and clearer than humans.

Nature finds a way, Natural selection perfects it. I was raised in a Catholic country and even the "Crazy Catholic Church" endorses evolution. Only really Bible Belters in the US believe in Creationism.. and IMO its a very Dark Ages way of thinking about your surroundings.

But, each to their own.

[edit on 11/2/10 by Dermo]

Originally posted by avatar01


And I've never been religious, I was actually taught evolution in school and made to believe this is how we came about... but once I started thinking for myself it became obvious. Someone MADE all this stuff!

It's funny you say that because I also believed that there was no creator up until I was about 18. I went to a religious school for half of my life but I didn't actually believe there was a God. I'm still not entirely sure..

But the more I looked at creation and evolution, the more that the 'natural process' seemed silly. If we didn't have eyes, we would NEVER know about things like.. nebulas, clouds, colours, etc. Sure, you could say we would have just developed something else.. but something like TASTE or SMELL would never do something like the universe a favour like sight has. We wouldn't be able to smell it, or taste it, we can only see it and photograph it - and then view the photograph.
I mean, either there is another more amazing way to view the universe or the eyes are the only way.. and if eyes are the only way then either we are amazingly impossibly lucky OR it is deliberate.

Originally posted by Dermo
Because of the need for instinctual and quick response, it grew closer to the brain over the millions of years. Also, as specific animals were using these sensitive areas for different purposes, some developed no more than black and white or blurry vision while others can see ten times farther and clearer than humans.

How do scientists know what other animals vision is like?

Also Charles Darwin himself struggled with the eye dilemma. He said in a letter..: "“the thought of the eye made me cold all over".

If we didn't have eyes we wouldn't even be aware of the existence of "light".


Makes you kinda wonder. What else really exists that we don't have the physical senses to perceive?

Originally posted by avatar01
If we didn't have eyes we wouldn't even be aware of the existence of "light".


Makes you kinda wonder. What else really exists that we don't have the physical senses to perceive?

You don't need eyes to be aware of light. You need one light sensitive cell. That's all it takes and that's where it all starts.

Yeah, I was also implying that. Confusing to think about, isn't it?

I don't get it, I mean we feel the effects of gravity, wind, temperature, etc, but we haven't developed senses to view them have we? So why the light/eye? Just so happens that it was the one sense that would allow us to know of the very thing in which we exist in (the universe/god)?

Also, a quote from Charles Darwin:
“To suppose the eye with all its imitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.”

[edit on 11/2/10 by Nventual]

Not to be offensive or insulting but to simply assume “god” gave us eyes is an insult to most sentient intelligence therefore I have to respond by way of strong disagreement.

Logic the last time I checked was based upon epistemology, deductive reasoning and scientific analysis. God and religion as far as I am concerned is based only upon superstitions, unawareness of the natural world (in context to god creating eyes) and an ignorance of the power of nature because of a misinterpretation of written words in the ancient past.

Therefore all Abrahamic religions are a more and more irrelevant fixation of faith, something that has no basis at all in logic but relies mainly upon blind faith to win an argument of legitimacy because faith and an assumption that “it was god” subverts critical thinking and disarms a mind from the ability to deny ignorance.

As to the OP, I “suspect” that the eyes evolved from sense organs similar to feelers in bottom feeding fish or snails and over time evolved into the amazing sensory organ it is today as environments changed and life forms became more complex.





[edit on 11-2-2010 by SmokeJaguar67]

Originally posted by Blueracer
Because God gave us eyes when he created us? Isn't that the most logical answer?

No, it isn't. It's simply the easiest answer to use which requires zero congitive processing.

The logical answer isn't actually known yet, but we're working on it and we're discovering new information all the time in how organisms have evolved under different evironments.

My guess, and only a guess, is that over the billions of years life has evolved, some genetic mutations ("mutation" not used in a negative connotation) in some cells made them light sensitive, which allowed those organisms to survive more readily than their neighbours. They in turn pass their DNA down to the next gen.

After X amount of time, another mutation occurs which results in further "eye-bearing" genetics, and so on and so on.

To say "God" or {whoever} 'gave us eyes' is a very poor use of the organ between your ears.

From an evolutionary perspective, the eye originally arose as cluster of light-sensitive cells. Most early single-celled organisms were plantlike in that they used light to produce energy through photosynthetic processes. As such, life has used light since pretty much the beginning. As predators began to evolve, some organisms developed special cells that could detect the difference between light and dark. This can be handy because that predator swooping in from above is probably going to block out some of the light shining down on you. Evolve this over millions of years and the light-sensing organs become more complex, the way the organism perceives the light becomes more complex, etc, and eventually you get to the modern eye.

But how is sonar going to show someone the universe? How is sound or smell going to show these things? It isn't. Why did we, the only beings with a consciousness as advanced as it is, have the best sense - sight, and the best organ for it - our eyes? Other animals have sight, but not as great as ours (sure, it is subjective but our sight is certainly great).

I didn't mean to turn this into a religious thing since I'm not technically religious. I just don't get how we developed eyes. I understand the evolutionary theory of it but it doesn't answer the questions I'm asking.

Originally posted by Nventual
Why did we, the only beings with a consciousness as advanced as it is, have the best sense - sight, and the best organ for it - our eyes? Other animals have sight, but not as great as ours

I would seriously contest that statement.

Our "consciousness" is what we believe it to be. And that perhaps is what's limiting us to seeing only that which we see. What if other animals have a consiousness far greater than us but we cant see it due to our subjectively low level of consiousness?

As for eyes - we do not have the best, not by a long shot.

Several animals have far better eyes for distance, like eagles, hawks, etc. And most have far better night vision than any human will ever have apart from technologically assisted.

Our sense of smell is pathetic when compared to any dog. Our hearing again, is substandard compared to that of dogs, bats, cats.

Our greatest attribute is our mind and its ability to logically process information, think of events in the future and the past whiel living in the present. But again, is it even that good? Our naive belief that we are the smartest animals on the planet could potentially be closing us off from some remarkable discoveries and appreciations of other animals.

[edit on 11-2-2010 by noonebutme]

[edit on 11-2-2010 by noonebutme]

Originally posted by Nventual
But how is sonar going to show someone the universe?

Creatures that live under the water have no need for star gazing. In many senses, life under the sea is another world entirely... and the reason they developed sonar was because sound travels better and further under water. It's a good survival tactic if you can see a predator, or your pray long before you can see it with your eyes.

Other animals have sight, but not as great as ours (sure, it is subjective but our sight is certainly great).

That's patently wrong Nventual. Humans have terrible eyesight when compared to many animals... such as cats or birds to name just two.

IRM

[edit on 11/2/10 by InfaRedMan]

Originally posted by noonebutme

Originally posted by Nventual
Why did we, the only beings with a consciousness as advanced as it is, have the best sense - sight, and the best organ for it - our eyes? Other animals have sight, but not as great as ours

I would seriously contest that statement.

Our "consciousness" is what we believe it to be. And that perhaps is what's limiting us to seeing only that which we see. What if other animals have a consiousness far greater than us but we cant see it due to our subjectively low level of consiousness?

As for eyes - we do not have the best, not by a long shot.

Several animals have far better eyes for distance, like eagles, hawks, etc. And most have far better night vision than any human will ever have apart from technologically assisted.

Our sense of smell is pathetic when compared to any dog. Our hearing again, is substandard compared to that of dogs, bats, cats.

Our greatest attribute is our mind and its ability to logically process information, think of events in the future and the past whiel living in the present. But again, is it even that good? Our naive belief that we are the smartest animals on the planet could potentially be closing us off from some remarkable discoveries and appreciations of other animals.

[edit on 11-2-2010 by noonebutme]

[edit on 11-2-2010 by noonebutme]

I really hate it when people say our consciousness is subjective and suggest that other animals may be more advanced than us. I don't want to sound rude, but give me a f-ing break! How many animals do you see driving cars and using the internet? Oh, you mean they are spiritually advanced? They all live as one through their minds? I guess that is why they # on the roof of my car or fly into windows. I guess that is why they spend all day flying from flower to flower or trying to find scraps of sugar in my house.

Every other animal relies on instincts. WE have free will. Don't give me that "subjective consciousness" bull#.