Status of Women in Islam - Stopping the disinfo

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I lived in a Moslem country as part of a Moslem family for two years out of my life. You will find the entire spectrum of moral to immoral behavior in any place on the globe, unfortunately. If you want to use that to justify a charge that an entire culture is immoral or abusive to women, go ahead, Work yourself up enough to advocate going to war.

I lived in a Moslem country as part of a Moslem family for two years out of my life. You will find the entire spectrum of moral to immoral behavior in any place on the globe, unfortunately. If you want to use that to justify a charge that an entire culture is immoral or abusive to women, go ahead, Work yourself up enough to advocate going to war.

reply to post by m khan


Can you please be more specific? What country did you live in? Did you notice any of the horror stories that we are hearing from the MSM taking place where you were? Did most women wear the burqa? Did they have casual friendships with men who were not in their immediate family?

I'm really interested in hearing what you have to say. Here in the US we mainly hear very negative things about Islam and its treatment of women. I understand that's propaganda, and I want to get past that and find the truth. Short of going to a Muslim country myself (and there's no $$$ for that) the best way I can think to accomplish this would be through anecdotal conversations with those who HAVE been in that part of the world and can attest, rightly or wrongly, about conditions there.

Please share your experiences with us.

Originally posted by pujols5
reply to post by Bombeni

 

So bomidiot, WHERE IS THE QUOTE THAT YOU SAID I TYPED. IM STILL WAITING, OR WAIT COULD YOU JUST BE A LIAR? I THINK SO. IF NOT BROUGHT, THEN THATS A SHAME ON YOUR PART FOR LYING. AND ILL DEFINETLY HAVE TO LEAVE THIS IGNORANT THREAD

Why don't you go back and read the post you obviously missed. I made that correction an hour ago, and posted a message about it. What do you do just hop skip and jump through these threads?

reply to post by pujols5

Bombeni tried to tell you that she corrected her post. Why didn't you go back and look at it? Or are you just looking for an excuse to leave? What's the matter, has the kitchen become too hot for you?

Originally posted by pujols5

Originally posted by Bombeni

Originally posted by pujols5
reply to post by Bombeni

 

So bomidiot, WHERE IS THE QUOTE THAT YOU SAID I TYPED. IM STILL WAITING, OR WAIT COULD YOU JUST BE A LIAR? I THINK SO. IF NOT BROUGHT, THEN THATS A SHAME ON YOUR PART FOR LYING. AND ILL DEFINETLY HAVE TO LEAVE THIS IGNORANT THREAD

Why don't you go back and read the post you obviously missed. I made that correction an hour ago, and posted a message about it. What do you do just hop skip and jump through these threads?

JUST LIKE I THOUGHT, YOU'RE A FRAUD, AND A LIAR. THAT RIGHT THERE WILL LEAD ME TO STOP THIS POSTING ON THIS THREAD, WE NOW HAVE LIARS HERE, WOW.

See ya later guys

Wow talk about squirming your way out the back door. I quickly edited that post to attribute it to the other guy, can't think of his name. I even deleted the sentence from the post, yet you conveniently play dead like you missed that part. Haha, yeah sure.

Girlfriend, I might have been born at night but it wasn't LAST night. Why don't you bring something of substance? In order to try to discredit the thousands of first hand accounts of muslim women who speak of the atrocities, bring me, oh let's just say 20 videos of REAL muslim women saying they enjoy being treated as though they were beneath men. Don't bring paid actors modeling head scarves. Not Americans chicks who have already been thru every other nationality on earth except muslims and want to play scarfy-scarfy harem girl for a while, but real live muslim women who live in the Middle East. Wait, are there 20 muslim women there that would be allowed to use a computer? Sorry I know, I am asking the impossible and that's not fair.

Originally posted by felonius
reply to post by Jinni

 

sooooo, why is it women get stoned to death when they are molested?

Just stating facts.

A woman doesn't get stoned for being molested.. in Islam, you can’t be stoned without any evidence and both sexes get it, not just only women. Christians use to stone and drown women because they "believed" and accused them of being witches. What evidence and right, did they have to stone and drown these innocent women? In the U.S. a woman who is raped is given no respect. Her rapist, who usually goes free for so called lack of evidence because US courts do not trust women, will only face maybe 5 years in prison. In Islam the rapist man is stoned slowly and painfully to death, not the woman!

You're not stating facts, you're only stating your assumptions on this subject matter. (An assumption is a proposition that is taken for granted, as if it were true based upon presupposition without preponderance of the facts.)

reply to post by Armin


Perhaps they don't get stoned, they simply get burned to death.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here is yet another picture of tolerance

What does it have to do with it.

The Quran is the entire basis of law. This isn't my OPINION. This is the intent of the book. In case you weren't clear, just about every Islamic scholar will back that up.

It is a book outlining an entire system of life individually to state governance. This isn't debatable - this is accepted fact. The Quran is a holy book. The Quran is the LAW of Allah handed down directly.

It addresses everything from how you wipe your butt to where you reside in the caste system of resources.

What does my talking Law have to do with it?

Everything.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Aeons

 

And the OP was about what their holy book said..... What exactly does the information you are ranting about have to do with that? Nothing. Why would someone dredge it up in such an conversation? Mudslinging, most likely caused by a dogged determintion to labeling all things muslim evil. Or simple inability to note context. Or contrarian fanaticistism. Take your pick.

[edit on 2010/2/12 by Aeons]

[edit on 2010/2/12 by Aeons]

Amazing.......even some of the responses here prove how intolerant muslims can be. If you question anything they don't like, you're told how stupid you are, called names, told to shut up etc. I guess maybe the title of the thread should have been something else, for when it is discussed, it brings about deflection and attacks on another religion with no real answers.

reply to post by Jinni


I guess the question is then why are women held in such low regard in muslim countries then? I understand that you are talking about how the religion sees them but I think there must be other verses that contradict the ones you have posted, just like there are contradictions in the bible etc. However, Islamic countries/cultures treat women as second rate citizens much more then western/christian countries. Why is that? That's the issue at the heart of this thread.

Where did the last several pages of this thread go? Or did I simply dream there was more to this thread?

Have pages been deleted? I'm pretty sure I'd responded additional posts and now they're gone... Did the Mods delete them? Do they do that?

reply to post by Aeons


I see. Because they claim that is what their religion calls for it must be so right? Misinterpretation accidental or intentional never happens right? Mankind NEVER twists or abridges existing ideas to suite his purposes right? There are reasons we differentiate between culture and religion sir, though the two are often intertwined.

[edit on 12-2-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

So your argument is that the basis of law for a billion people, widely and continuous discussed by people considered to be scholars (very important in Islam) are somehow.....misguided.

How interesting. Accepting. Open minded. Blatantly untrue.

You'll find much about the Koran as law, or the Koran as lifestyle, or the Koran as example, or the Koran's miracles. What you won't find a lot of is the Koran as a spiritual text.

Its a guide for life and governance. Your BELIEF isn't necessary. Only your capitulation.

Don't believe that? Peace in Islam means something that you will find if you completely SUBMIT to Allah. Peace means submission. Its the name of the Religion. The terms of that submission are laid out for you. In the Quran.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Aeons

 

I see. Because they claim that is what their religion calls for it must be so right? Misinterpretation accidental or intentional never happens right? Mankind NEVER twists or abridges existing ideas to suite his purposes right? There are reasons we differentiate between culture and religion sir, though the two are often intertwined.

[edit on 12-2-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

[edit on 2010/2/12 by Aeons]

reply to post by Aeons


Yet all you can provide and quibble over is a fairly recent *compared to the holy book* law err treaty err whatever with the underlying asertions, not proof, that they aren't culturally bending Islam to suit cultural practices. And claim anyone trying to tell you otherwise is a "islamist" *your word not mine* trying to spread their religion if Muslim or an idiot *also your word not mine* if they are not a Muslim. Such a armor of rhetoric.

Right. Me and the Islamic scholars of the last 1300 years.

You on the other hand, are full of nothing but empty platitudes.

Someone can point out searing reality to you, hand you statistics, give you a book, point out a library on it.....and you shrug it off.

Sometimes people stumble over the truth. Most of them then pick themselves up, dust themselves off and keep going though. So you are in good company.

Silly silly boy.

Pay attention.

This thread started about the Status of Women.

For all of their retorts, subject changes, etc. not ONE Muslim on this thread (or any other I've done it in) has disagreed with my assessment.

Not my definition of what a woman's status is. Not my definition of equality, or justice, or freedom, or peace. Not my depiction of what the Quran is and means.

Not one. People try what you are doing - the oh-you-are-so-mean card. But none make a peep to say that what I have explained is incorrect.

Because it is not. The best you can do is pull out this plausible deniability, and redirect to attack my character. You cannot argue the inconvenient facts.

[edit on 2010/2/12 by Aeons]

reply to post by Aeons

But you haven't really used the Quran. Since way back on whatever page, when you responded to me, you've been going on about "Islamic Scholars" and their loads of books on law, and how THAT is the basis of the Islamic Law, and that allows that "The leaders can do anything they want, because it is allowed" (but not providing any reason why).

If there is to be a basis of such a thing as "Islamic Law" or morality, it would be from the Quran and Hadith, nothing else.

Most so called "Islamic Laws" in place in the countries today that have them are nothing more than bits of leftover Napoleonic Code, from when those countries were ruled by someone else, mixed up with "Hey, this feels islamic, let me put this in". Nobody was checking up on some ancient "Islamic Scholar" (not that that matters) or some 20th century so called "Islamic Declaration", and it only vaguely has anything to do with the Quran or Hadith.

Originally posted by iMacFanatic
I think it is you who is misinformed Subjective truth.

The rights Muhammad gave women were revolutionary in his day....especially in the west. The Greeks had harems...aka women's quarters...and the Byzantines developed the veil...in both cases the woman was subject to her husband. Islam gave women the right of inhertiance as well that of divorce and forbade the killing of girl babies which was practiced a lot at the time.

So much of what characters like you criticize Islam over are actually cultural practices of the country in question and are not native to Islam.

The Celts were the true leaders in women running the show back in the day.
You're right on women being under the thumb in Greece and Rome.
The whole matriarchal society was still evident in Roman times in Britain and Ireland.
In the Middle East the Patriarchal society had already supplanted the Matriarchal one several centuries previous.
Islam may well of been liberal towards women in the olden times, but by the time of the Crusades and Ottoman Empire you can throw most of the liberal interpretations out the window.
If I was a woman in Islam I would only want to live in either Turkey, Lebanon or possibly Iran.
It's a pretty raw deal elsewhere.