Police: Man with weapons cache was preparing for Armageddon

reply to post by METACOMET



I got a feeling we are all gonna see a whole lot more of this type of thing...

That is why I get pissed and tell people to buy and hide and shut up about what they have.... government punks are gonna start doing this on a more regular basis...

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Guns are legal but batons are not?

What grounds did they give for a search? (none)

Illegal search. period.

If they want to arrest everyone who thinks Armagedon is coming they are going to have to disarm around 50 million Christians first.

Lotsa luck!

No, not exactly. The story is incomplete.
The search may not have been illegal at all and the cops may have had due cause to get a warrant and search the premises. We don't know because the story is so vague.

we can assume , speculate and draw conjecture all we like, but that just fills a void of information with ...well, ignorant supposition.

also, you have officially creeped me out with your christian/gun refernce. That is just so twisted and wrong on so many levels. It's like a whole horde of people who believe they are one thing, but in reality, their real master is hate and violence.

The american "christian" right is actually satanist when it comes down to it. They do not emulate the lord christ in the least. Which i believe is their calling in the doctrine of christianity.

[edit on 11/2/2010 by djusdjus]

The Whole Story:

McKiel said cops discovered a homemade hand grenade attached to a teargas canister. He said cops also found several lawfully purchased weapons that they are examining for illegal modifications, as well as what he described as armor-piercing bullets

LINK

reply to post by JBA2848

Authorities were tipped off by the suspect’s wife, a Cambridge psychiatrist, who told police that she was afraid to go home. She plans to file a restraining order.

“He made the following statements to her, ‘Don’t talk to people. Shoot them instead. It’s fine to shoot people in the head, because traitors deserve it,'” continued a prosecutor.

Ok, Ok, Ok, I give! This guy is a nut! His own wife turned him in!!

His wife is a psychiatrist, and she was afraid to go home!!

She knows him better than anyone, and she is well-qualified to judge. If she says he flipped, then I tend to believe her.

To the MA police for taking action at the appropriate time, even though they will probably take some heat from people like us!

That changes everything. Now I wish I would have read into this a bit more before I posted. I hope this guys gets the treatment he deserves and am happy no one got hurt.

Originally posted by Ridhya
Okay upon a search I DID find your answer but you left out the important part in brackets Nuclear Chemical Biological weapons... (NBC)

Those bracketed items only means that NBC are included in the definition of WMD and that's probably why they are considered the "only" WMD.

But anybody with half a brain knows that you don't have to go nuclear to cause mass destruction. The legal WMD definition is: A Device that can kill or injure Civilian as well as Military Personnel. A device is a system that can perform its job without the assistance of a human being, right. A grenade does its job at a distance, right. A land-mine lays in wait to do its job, without any help.

A plastic fork can be used as a tool or weapon to gouge somebody in the eye or neck, but a human hand has to be there to hold the fork. A fork is not a device, see? It cannot perform its function outside of human hands. So it can't fall under the definition of WMD.

The main reason we don't formally call grenades and land-mines "weapons of mass destruction" — although they ARE — is because that would make it too easy to claim that one side or the other was using WMD.

So they want this distinction in place for the anti-war protesters, right, so those foaming morons can claim that NO WMD WERE FOUND IN IRAQ!!

As a matter of fact, millions of WMD were recovered in Iraq in the form of stored land-mines and grenades and RPGs. See, but the narrow definition of WMD prevailed in the anti-war propaganda back stateside.

Ask some veteran grunt or jarhead with an artificial hip about the definition of WMD. He'll tell you real quick and accurately: WMD are devices that can kill or injure Civilian as well as Military Personnel.

— Doc Velocity





[edit on 2/11/2010 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

I wish people would stop mixing religion and politics ("rights given by creator"), it only leads to fundamentalism and lunatic ideas. Doesn't matter which religion it is either, Christianity, Islam, or Hinduism...they should not interfer with politics. They are not based on rationality (which isn't necessarily a bad thing), which should exclude them from having any influence on something as rational as politics or economics.

Church and State was separated for a reason!


I didn't write the Constitution so I'm not mixing religion and politics. Maybe you should take that up with Mrs Jefferson, Adams, Madison, et al. Inalienable rights are rights we are born with, i.e. endowed with by our creator (insert deity of choice here)

After learning more details about this guy and his wife turning him in I am much less inclined to defend him, however no-one has proven him to be a menace of any kind. Many wives turn on their husbands for a variety of reasons, maybe he was a danger, maybe not.

[edit on 11-2-2010 by Asktheanimals]

I would be curious as to the background of this story. It sounds to me as though they were having problems other than his preparations. I know that my wife and I have been preparing for the potential of a worst case scenario with regards to economic, political, and social issues for the last 12 months. We have sufficient equipment to defend our property, ourselves, and to be self-sufficient should it become necessary to bug out at some point. We have had discussions between us as to possible scenarios and circumstances where it might become necessary to turn our weapons on other human beings in defense of our own lives and to protect our children.

I don't think my wife thinks I'm nuts, but I'll be checking with her on that tonite.

reply to post by mrbarber

I don't think my wife thinks I'm nuts, but I'll be checking with her on that tonite.

Good Idea!!

I already know my wife thinks I am nuts. But then, about 20% of the time, she comes to me with questions and observations of her own, and she realizes that it can't hurt to be prepared.

Of course, I have never told her to shoot people's heads off instead of talking to them either.

She doesn't mind buying a little extra sugar, or spam, or rice when she is at the store. She likes going to the gun show with me. She even likes the gun range when she can keep her eyes open and her fingers out of her ears.

She normally checks to make sure I am carrying my weapon anytime I leave the house, and she feels better knowing that in the 4 years she has known me, I have always had it on me, and I have never even considered pulling it out. Even in a few little confrontations here or there, lethal force, or the use of my weapon was never considered.

seekingalpha.com...

And here is some more wisdom from Gregory Girard.
This guy flew way over the Cuckoo's Nest.

Currencies Can Evaporate, But Not Silver or Gold [View article] I agree with points regarding the "potential," and I further agree that I would not want to rely on a soldier's interpretation of what is and what is not Constitution. No doubt a large number of thoughtful, moral, and political aware soldiers will know when they are being asked to do evil, and refuse. Perhaps a majority of others would simply be eager for another mission and jump into participating in the tyranny with dutiful blindness. There is sure to be a threshold that tyrants reach, which might be an attempt to confiscate firearms, that would signal the whole country that what was once a series of limitations had now become a compaign to enslave them; and all but the patently ignorant and detached would know that taking guns is the prelude to mass murder, rape, genocide, and other atrocities. As such time, action against the tyranny requires no great philosophical justification or noble sense of patriotism. It requires nothing more than the instinctual act of self-preservation.

If one were to adjust the murder rate in America to exclude black male gang murder in the inner city, we would have perhaps the lowest or nearly lowest murder rate in the world (see DOJ statistics and analysis). Part of this has to do with almost ubiquitous presence of firearms, which has been part of our cultural heritage dating back to 1620. Then, as now, firearms have been the foundation of our ultimate security and protector of our liberties. Alarmed by Obama's presidency, Americans purchased enough arms to outfit the entire Chinese Red Army (by far the largest number of troops in the world) EVERY THREE WEEKS! Included in this buying spree were NINE BILLION rounds of ammunition. Further, contemplate tens of millions of hunting licenses sold this year. Nearly every single one sold may be counted as skilled marksman, capable of the basic skills required by any sniper. The standard military issue "assault rifle" is condescending referred to as shooting "mouse bullets" because its stopping power (killing capacity) is so low. In the sport of hunting, the type of cartridge used by these assault weapons is considered appropriate only for relatively small game, such as gophers, coyotes, jack rabbits, etc. Use on larger game is considered unethical because it is not likely to kill the animal without perfect placement of a shot in a vital area. In contrast, each of the approximately 30 million deer and big game licenses sold represents at least one weapon capable of killing a large animal, larger than a human, with one single shot, and from 100-300 years away. Designed for humane killing of large animals that weigh up to 15,000lbs, so-called "big bore" hunting rifles could kill a man after going through an automobile or 2' diameter tree.

Finally, if every soldier in the armed forces were deployed to subjugate the American people, not only would there be centralized location or encampment to bomb, there would be no mechanized war machines to confront with heavy armor. It would be like the war in Iraq,
except with 100x as many of the enemy, all much better armed, much smarter, and with unlimited logistical support.

The point of my detailed description above is to reveal to you and others that it is grave error to underestimate the military prowess of U.S. Civilians, a great many of which would be recent and past military veterans whose skill and training would guide an army of patriots at least an order of magnitude of the largest army every. Though unlike military campaigns of the past, the arms and munitions, and the supply lines to provide them, have already been established.

So, when one contemplates the balance of power in a state, it is very important that the assumptions factored in reflect reality. If the American people are attacked by their own armed forces turned treacherous, the degree to which their own families would be vulnerable to reprisals, the fact that they would outnumbered by two orders of magnitude, and that fact that their standard small arms would pitifully inadequate, and that heavy armor and bombs would offer no strategic advantage, and that they would have no life in America after the conflict, all these factors should be considered by a prognosticator, and by anyone in the armed forces who might decide that domestic terrorism against one's countryman is a matter of "just following orders."

You should note I'm generally a very pro-military guy with a naval officer brother-in-law. He we address the tragic and horrifying possibility that our protector turn on us like rabid dogs, and become something different that what they are now. It is only because it happens so often that we are able to justify this fear -- and it is a situation to fear and prepare for. I have been a vocal, long-time supporter of our troops, and a significant contributor to Oath Keepers, a most noble and necessary cause. However, the fact that we have so many outstanding, courageous, and dedicated individuals in the armed forces is no protection against the many who don't quite measure up morally. I hope my "back of the napkin" analysis of America's capacity to resist oppression is helpful to you, or at least interesting. I like to walk through it mentally to make myself feel better

-- a kind of therepy as I worry my way through Obama's Presidency.
Jan 13 22:54 pm |Rating: +7 -5 |Link to Comment

"You should note I'm generally a very pro-military guy with a naval officer brother-in-law. He we address the tragic and horrifying possibility that our protector turn on us like rabid dogs, and become something different that what they are now."

So does that mean we have to worry about this guys navy brother in law?
He did have two sets of bullet proof vest and bullet proof helmets and a arsenal big enough for two. Could he of had a partner in all of this. The brother of his psychiatrist wife?

[edit on 11-2-2010 by JBA2848]

seekingalpha.com...

The Economics of Decision Making: 'Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness,' by Richard H. Thaler and Cass R. Sunstein [View article] Nothing new here from these lefty whack jobs. From the bit I've heard and read of the approach, it is just another pseudoscientific tome on re-education for the non-conformists in yet another totalitarian dystopia. Social engineering for the masses has been a left fascination for over a century. Such programs to alter human behavior on a large scale seem only to stick when individuals choose the new path themselves; however the Sunsteen's of the world continue to hammer away at the notion that a mass can be programmed to do things that indviduals comprising the mass would choose not to do. Those who have read Orwell's classic 1984, a masterpiece that addresses this very subject in great detail, would be familiar with the secret book in story that provides the description and methods for "Oligarchical Collectivism," which is virtually the same as totalitarian communism in the real world. I would never waste time on any work by Sunstein and/or his very scary collaborators, unless of course I were planning to launch communist dictatorship with a circle of elites that lorded over a mass of powerless subjects enslaved for the purpose of enriching and otherwise service the elites.

Sunstein is well known for his perverse beliefs that reject, among other things, the food chain in nature and the concept that humans are in any way superior to other animals. He is passionately in favor -- and this for real, no matter how deranged it may sound -- of "human rights" for animals, wherein they can operate through a human proxy, get a lawyer, and sue anyone that violates their "rights." Naturally, all eating of meat, kiling of animals for any reason, or even keeping them would be illegal in his psychotic fantasy world. These twisted views are for real and may be verified, thus demonstrating he is deranged beyond any any federal gov't official of which I am aware. Like nearly all of those on the extreme left, he is very much committed to disarming the populace and would leave others, besides himself, with no means of self-defense. Thus, Sunstein would have have us living in a world whereing guns and our steaks, chops, and roasts, were all taken away.

Given a helpless, disarmed public, it doesn't take a visionary to see that "nudging" by a leftist gov't amounts to committing atrocities against various non-conformists and dissidents who refuse to surrend their liberties and submit to totalitarian gov't policies. After studying leftists/liberals and their policies for years, I have been particularly struck by how consistent is the the left's obessive desire to disarm the public by any means available despite such actions causing increases in all kinds of violent crime. But disarming the public, which is so much a part of Sunstein's focus, makes perfect sense given that the more totalitarian policies of the radical left (communism/fascism/rad... socialism) usually must be imposed on the public by way of terror, in the form of mass atrocities, and such means to implement a policy is generally not possible in a free state wherein the right of people to keep and bear arms has not been infringed. The 20th century is chocked full of genicides, dissident "purges," and a dozen holocausts carried out for the purpose of coercing the public in various contries to comply with totalitarian leftist (communist/fascist/ext... socialist) laws and policies that I strongly suspect Sunstein would have supported. So in the end analysis, we might interpret the term "nudge" as a politically correct code word for forcing totalitarian policies on the public, and the force used throughout history seems too often to include committing atrocities on a mass scale. Indeed, my biggest fear is that the U.S. gov't is today planning to subject to Americans to sweeping and extreme policy changes that violate the limits and protections afforded by our beloved Constitution. Relying on some obtuse "continuity of government" law and/or excutive orders unknown to most of the public (e.g. operation Garden Plot, Cable Splicer), the thin veneer of a representive republic and civil rights will be unlawfully suspended during some exaggerated emergency or crisis while the framework of a new dystopia is rolled out as its replacment. Sunstein's mere presence in our Federal gov't should make us take serious the threat of such a "coup." My own biggest fear is that the "total transformation" of our country, as promised by Obama, takes the form of radical change, and that resistance by the populace is countered with the worst kind of "nudge" from our increasingly fantatical leftist gov't.
Dec 19 16:32 pm |Rating: +5 0 |Link to Comment

Garden Plot, Cable Splicer?

Or the notion that stocking up on foodstuffs would be pointless because everything is pointless, is just absurd. As practical matter, being forced to spend all of one's resources on wildly inflated and infrequently available foodstuffs really doesn't quite measure up to having cheaply bought, plentiful provisions available at all times. Apart from enabling one to keep living, it further enables wealth preservation.

I have found it a disturbing bit of reality to learn that in a hyperinflation, there are apparently four major options for dealing with the simple issue of food for survival: put some away ahead of time; spend nearly 100% of one's resources to acquire just enough to survive; eat other humans; or starve...possibly to death. The last of the four is sadly the only viable choice for those to sick, or with many children, or the elderly that are unable to compete in pursuing the other methods. I personally prefer the first method, and would grow things (and preserve with canning) as an adjunct. Some limited livestock would round out the mix, making it a challenge to experience much of a sense of food deprivation.

And as one might expect, accounts I have read suggest that any queasiness about self defense with lethal weapons, such as firearms, may very well result in one's possessions, family members, and one's self very being exploited as "resoures" by those willing to do anything to survive. It is instructive to read some excellent accounts from more recent experiences available online, particular those from Argentina that are only about six or seven years old. Argentina has specialized in repeated economic catastophes over the years.

Could seeing what played out in Haiti after the earth quake have pushed this guy? Seeing the dead bodies and lawlessness there made him think the end is closer than ever? Did he think inflation was going to make people "eat other humans; or starve...possibly to death."

[edit on 11-2-2010 by JBA2848]

I would like to thank JBA2848 for posting more information on this story and other pertainent articles that the person who was arrested wrote. I would highly encourage those of you that have skimmed this post so far to read all of JBA2848 posts...

At first I thought that it may have been somewhat of an illeagle search and siezure. (technically it still may be) but there does seem to be some mittigating circumstances.. Mostly the "active" shooting range in his attick.

He admitted to shooting his .22 cal. rifle up there and telling his neighbors not to worry about what may sound like gunfire..

as far as the "grenades" all I have seen and read about them was that they are smoke and CS(basically tear gas) NOT fragmentation grenades.
I am not saying that they are not dangerous, but they are not "intended" to be DEADLY..

So yes, the man seems to have possibly devoped some mental instability, and hopefully he will get needed help. Yet still he did not go on a "rampage"

Thus the dillema, is the potential there for a rampage? Yes..
Was it prevented this time by a preemtive raid and arrest? Possibly.
But, should this become "standard opperating procedure"???? I am not so sure..

The question is whether, to be proactive,(thus possibly infringing on the citizens rights)

Or, reactive,(thus having to deal with death and destruction of innocent victims)

Although the answer may seem "black and white" (prevent the carnage before it happens) if you think about it it is very complicated..
Who decides, who and what is dangerous? what are the parameters? what are the "penalties"

What is worse? thoughts? or actions? the "loudmouth braggart?" or the "silent Killer?"

What is truly more important, your rights? (imaginary as they may be) Or a sense of security? (imaginary as it may be)

I left the questions rather vague, with alot unsaid, for the sake of brevity.
please use common sense and don't "nit pick" unless to substantiate a point. thank you in advance..

[edit on 11-2-2010 by SideWynder]

[edit on 11-2-2010 by SideWynder]

Originally posted by SideWynder
At first I thought that it may have been somewhat of an illeagle search and siezure. (technically it still may be) but there does seem to be some mittigating circumstances.. Mostly the "active" shooting range in his attick.

Not to mention his wife is the one that reported him. The police followed procedure by obtaining a warrant, but did they really need one? I mean, if this guy's wife reported him, she could have easily let the police in w/o a warrant, no?

reply to post by Aggie Man


I don't think any evidence would of been excepted in court if it wasn't obtained by a warrant. And the wife reported it to the police and I guess they did nothing at first then a freind of the wife called about the handgernades and they acted on that call.

www.salemnews.com...

The following day, an Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agent contacted Manchester police about a tip they had received about grenades inside the condo. That tip came from a friend of Girard's wife.

reply to post by Aggie Man


Yes, true, Sorry I omitted that by mistake.( I got distracted) Also it was a friend of his wife that actually tipped off the police about the "hand grenade" It did not say if his wife asked her friend to report her husband, or if the friend saw the "grenade" at thier home..(I've got people here that wer quiet for three friggin hours, and as soon as I started typing they all want to talk to me!!!! LOL) What should have been a five minute post took me 35 mins to type..

Sorry JBA2848, you beat me to it, you must be home alone... LOL

[edit on 11-2-2010 by SideWynder]

Originally posted by Whiteone
The Whole Story:

McKiel said cops discovered a homemade hand grenade attached to a teargas canister. He said cops also found several lawfully purchased weapons that they are examining for illegal modifications, as well as what he described as armor-piercing bullets

LINK

That suggests to me that he was planning on doing something very soon, and he didn't care who he did it to. He sounds like another fanatic who wants to bring on "armageddon" soon and thinks that if he just opens up and starts shooting down people that every other citizen with guns is going to run out to the street and join him and start shooting anyone they THINK is evil.

Ugh.

medweb.mit.edu...

Kristine Girard, M.D.,Associate Chief, Mental Health Service for MIT

Originally posted by pyrts

Originally posted by Whiteone... as well as what he described as armor-piercing bullets

LINK

.

Really? REporters are still using this "armor-piercing" garbage?

Just about any rifle round is "armor-piercing" due to its core. What the media refers to as "armor-piercing" is just about every hunting cartridge on any shelf everywhere.

Not to mention there isnt some goofy law out there legislating "armor-piercing" ammunition. Lord knows there have been multiple attempts at such a law. All spearheaded by morons like this:

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


www.amazon.com...

Gregory Girard says:
I have guns in .223, .308 and others. However, in any gunfight I'll using my bolt action 9.3x62, or my .458 Lott, both of themn with solid, non-lead bullets designed not to expand. With these guns, it doesn't matter much if the attackers are taking refuge behind 2ft diameter trees, corners of buildings, behind cars, or wearing hard "rifle plate" body armor. These things are reletively transparent to such "safari" type cartridges (within certain limits, such as over an inch of steel). Certain firepower is low in terms of rate of fire, but a single shot well placed shot at several running up a path, for instance, will make it possible to pass a broomstick through all three. In general, safari type rifles approach the awesome ballistics of a 50 Cal., but are light as any standard 30 Cal rifle like a .308. Unlike the 50 Cal, one can run, climb walls/fences/trees, and shoot them from any conceivable position. Personally, if it were me on attacking end and I somehow found out the person I was after had a safari rifle, I'd would consider the fact that I could never find safe cover too much of a risk to proceed.
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