DrillGate - Obama Dragging His Feet - Offshore Drilling!

reply to post by Southern Guardian


"sustainable long term"?
I'll take short term - long term - any term.
Give me the oil - gasoline - heating oil and jobs now!
Why can't you see that?
-------------------------------
Hold on to your hat when Sarah Palin walks into the oval office Jan. 2013
because Drill Baby Drill will be first on the agenda.
The clock is ticking on Team Obama.

Originally posted by centurion1211
There are other sources that say that's not true.

And what sources are those? Right now you are telling us there are enough oil reserves to replace our current consumption needs at nearly a quarter of the worlds production. So wheres you sources? You are sure that we need to spend this money, in part at the expense of the environment, to go ahead and drill for a source of oil you cannot seem to verify.

And so what part of if we used our own oil

Out of the 85 or so million barrels of oil produced in the world in total, the US consumes just over 20 million:
www.nationmaster.com...

The United states produces just over 7 million barrels of its own a day. We depend over 60% of our fuel sources from outside. How are you to assume that there is enough to cut of independence on our own shores, and for how long Centurion?

Are we to assume this country has never been drilled of its oil source? We have had a century of this land used:

www1.eere.energy.gov...

31 states already produce the oil fuel source, the bulk of them in Texas, Alaska and California.

What sources told you there are enough reserves?

[edit on 10-2-2010 by Southern Guardian]

reply to post by Eurisko2012

When the oil is gone we cross that bridge when we get to it.
In the mean time we need gas, heating oil and jobs NOW!
We need to move forward now.
--------------------------------------
We can work on alternative energy along the way.
Lets do both.

We have many potential solutions the oil situation, be they electricity, wind power, solar energy, biodiesel, biomass, hydrogen, nuclear power, HCNG or bioalcohol.

Fill your tank with vegetable oil

Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan

Hydrogen Cars

We don't have to wait; we can do this now. However, there is an international cartel that can make, like in Exxon's case, $90,000 minute. The job they do makes them the most vital and powerful companies in the world. These alternatives could damage them considerably.

As for the Gulf drilling, I still say no way. The entire coastal region's economy is built upon the fishing industry, generating some five and a half billion dollars annually, as well as adding around one thousand new jobs in the early 2000s. The fish and shrimp produced by the Gulf fishing industry is more than than that of the Atlantic and New England combined. What consequences would there be on this booming industry in light of offshore drilling?

Game fish make noises to attract mates and scare away enemies, and that communication could be drowned out by the explosions of giant air guns that the drilling industry uses for acoustic mapping, said Felicia Coleman, director of FSU's Coastal and Marine Laboratory.

Impact of drilling on fishing industry eyed

Routine Discharges Of Offshore Drilling Wastes: During normal drilling operations for oil or gas, drilling muds are used to cool and lubricate the drill bits. Once the useful properties of drill muds are exhausted, large volumes of spent drill muds are simply discharged over the side of the drill rig directly into the ocean. Each well drilled produces, on average, 180,000 gallons of drilling mud and cuttings. Dumping of spent drill muds spreads plumes of turbidity as the "fine" particles spread throughout the water column, and the heavier components of the discharge accumulate on the seafloor to smother benthic organisms and other marine life.

These discharges also customarily contain toxic materials known to bio-accumulate in the ocean food chain leading to humans. Of primary concern are toxic heavy metals like mercury, chromium, barium, arsenic, cadmium, and "Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbon" compounds (or PAHs), all found to cause life-cycle mutagenic damage to eggs of pink salmon in the years following the Exxon Valdez oil spill at levels of only two parts per billion.

In addition, what are known as "produced waters," which originate from subsea aquifers, are brought up with the oil or gas, and hundreds of thousands of gallons of often toxic produced waters are subsequently dumped into the ocean.

In many geologic settings in the Gulf of Mexico and elsewhere, produced waters contain radioactive radium, and the resulting discharge is the source of a radioactive plume trailing from the rig on the ocean currents. Radium is readily taken up by marine life and also bio-concentrates in the marine food web.

THE PACIFIC COAST FEDERATION OF FISHERMEN'S ASSOCIATIONS:
Offshore Drilling -- It's Back - "Drill, Baby Drill," Really Burn, Baby Burn for Fisheries

The above makes an excellent point about the pollution levels involved in offshore drilling. With the Gulf producing much of America and surrounding countries' seafood supply, do we really want to up the levels of dangerous contaminants? Damaging that ecosystem will have repercussions throughout the entire region.

Elsewhere in the thread you said:

I think the problem is that the oil rigs are not very pretty.
They love the beautiful view of the ocean.

Do you realize the revenue and the jobs created by the Gulf of Mexico's tourist industry? The town where I was born, Galveston, Texas, is reliant on the fishing industry and tourism, as is Corpus Christi and Port Aransas. Gulf Shores in Alabama, Gulfport in Mississippi, Pensacola in Florida... all rely on tourism. Without tourism, these towns by and large would go by the wayside.

How about you stop and consider the repercussions of your delightful "fix-all" solution?

Like big oil would intentionally flood the market and drive prices down even if they were allowed to drill offshore. Cmon, face reality. They would just sit on that oil till the other supplies are nearly used up so they can keep oil prices high.

Don't think that letting them drill offshore is going to do anything like create new jobs. Big oil will keep the same amount of jobs and the massive profits associated with the price of crude and then when they need it they will drill when they want to.

reply to post by Someone336


Hey! I'm glad you brought up fishing.
2 words Fish Farm.
Have you seen the latest and greatest fish farms yet?
They are basically very large cages that float in the ocean.
The fish are inside. You don't need a fish tank and water pumps.
-----------------------------------------------------
They already grow salmon on land.
Have you tried the farm raised salmon yet? Just bake it in the oven.
They taste great.
--------------------------------
The farmers are being denied fresh water in California because
of an endangered fish. It's a tiny little fish.
Once again. -Fish Farms???-

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Thanks for the dodge of the issues at hand. There are currently massive fish farms in the Gulf, an issue that is actually a huge controversy in the region due to the damage it is doing to the current ecosystem:

“Open-ocean fish farms pose significant environmental threats to our marine ecosystems. Approval of offshore aquaculture in the Gulf of Mexico without the establishment of science-based and precautionary national standards is a recipe for disaster," said Christopher Mann, senior officer at the Pew Environment Group. “There’s no shortage of scientific evidence showing the serious damage caused by large-scale aquaculture to marine environments. Disease and pollution from the discharge of untreated waste continue to plague fish farms worldwide. And the use of wild fish in aquaculture feeds puts additional pressure on struggling fish stocks."

Obama's Gulf of Mexico Fishery Decision Called a "Recipe for Disaster"

This also further damages the fishing economy that the coastal region is completely built upon, but judging from your short sighted responses this doesn't matter much to you.

Fish farms are great, huh?

According to this study, the average 200,000 fish farm produces nitrogen equal to 20,000 humans, phosphorus equal to 25,000 humans, as well as fecal waste equal to a city of 65,000 people.

Salmon farm sewage often contains chemicals
and contaminants6 that easily enter the food
chain and accumulate as they move up it, ultimately
reaching humans. Among these chemicals
are:
• copper
• zinc
• tributyltin, a fungicide
• oxytetracycline and oxolinic acid, both antibiotics
• ivermectin, an anti-parasite compound
• emamectin benzoate, cypermethrin, azamethiphos
tefl ubenzuron, and dichlorvos—all
insecticides.
• polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs).7

Fun !

Of course, then we run into the issue of the by-products of "organic enrichment" of the fish...

Fish farming, offshore drilling, mass polluting... all these things are going to damage both a delicate ecosystem that we rely on and the economy that has grown from it.

Here is the problem as I see it:
1) Fossil fuels are the new bad guy and bad stuff. President Obama has stated and continues to state that he is going to make it so that we no long use fossil fuels, to include raising taxes on them. In his words, if the American public will not go willingly, he will simply make policy to nudge them in that direction, so the gas would go up more and more, to where it become incentive for people to purchase more fuel effecient vehicles, and seek alternative means for energy.
2) The fossile fuels are there, yes. Are they accessible yes, here is the other lill problem: The "Not in my back yard" mind set. Many of the places where they could drill for oil, end up with a large amount of opposition from the local communities and other special interest groups that tie up the cooperations in court to prevent such.
3) Once the fuel is out, then there is the refining and here again, no one wants a refinery in their own backyard. The horrid fact is that current refinerys are aging and if one goes down, then you have a gas shortage that affects an entire area.
4) Cost and time. The cost to set up those facilities are expensive and the amount of time is that you are looking at a good 3 to 6 years of building, and once again, the companies who are doing such, are having to not only hope, but also ensure that they are not caught up in the different court cases and injunctions. So there is the problem in a nut shell.

yeah man this is what it's all about. i'm gonna be linin up for these jobs this is just what we need.

reply to post by Someone336


Well, i know how to fit that.
It looks like the fish farmers are cutting corners with the discharge/
fish sewage. If we know how to treat human sewage can't we treat
the fish farm sewage?
How hard can it be? Don't give up on the fish farms.
As a matter of fact i think my fish farm sewage treatment plant would create
some jobs. Win - win. How does that sound?
I still like my fish farm idea.
It's like an huge aquarium that makes money.
You don't have to catch the fish. It's in the tank.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Harm the fishing economy?
I'll hire the fishermen to run the state-of-art fish farm.

[edit on 10-2-2010 by Eurisko2012]

reply to post by sdcigarpig

As far the refineries, the solution is grow the size of existing refineries.
For every problem there is a solution.
You guys just need a "Can do" attitude.

Originally posted by Submarines
Another point that Sarah has that I agree with.

We needed to be drilling YEARS ago. It never made sense to me, even as a child that we would buy our oil from people who don't like us, rather than using our own natural reserves. Plain stupid!

We

not we, they... Do you think we pay less in gas after invading and now physically controlling a country with a #!@#ton of oil? As I recall WE were paying $6 for gas,
THEY did not seem to give a flying crap.

BTW if its not your state, stay out of other peoples business... Not gonna make my state ugly so you can imagine you will save.

Same with OP, you like small government, talk like it and act like it. Its a STATE ISSUE
buster...

None of you are gonna save a dime, corporate mouthpiece, short bus, pheasant brain.

reply to post by Janky Red


Sarah Palin is on the way to the White House.
Item 1 on the agenda is Drill Baby Drill.
Get used to it.

Now what is your opinion on Sarah Palin's crib notes Eurisko ?

reply to post by Eurisko2012


You're still

A)Shattering an ecosystem.

and

B)Eliminating a huge economical factor. You think that the fishermen are the only people working in the fishing industry?

You hire the fishermen away from the fishing towns to work in these 'fish farms'. What happens to the entire support system for the fishermen? Where do their jobs go? What happens to the town? Oh yeah, they can go work at some hypothetical fish waste treatment facility. So, enlighten me: how are they going to install this waste treatment facility in the middle of the ocean? Wait, are you talking about farming all gulf seafood on US soil?

The crowded conditions of fish farms always gives way to the problems any mass produced food product: conditions are prime for disease, not different than cattle. Are we to believe that a company mass producing fish and shrimp won't begin to inject them with growth hormones and the like?

We're told we should eat seafood frequently, but I bet you didn't know that scientists recommend eating farm fish once every five months. The reason? Farmed fish have been shown to contain high concentrations of polychlorinated biphenyls...

The most commonly observed health effects in people exposed to extremely high levels of PCBs are skin conditions such as chloracne and rashes, but these were known to be symptoms of acute systemic poisoning dating back to 1922. Studies in workers exposed to PCBs have shown changes in blood and urine that may indicate liver damage. In 1968 in Japan, 280 kg of PCBs contaminated rice bran oil used as chicken feed, resulting in a mass poisoning known as Yushō Disease in over 14,000 people.[37] Common symptoms included dermal and ocular lesions, irregular menstrual cycles and a lowered immune response.[38][39][40] Other symptoms included fatigue, headache, cough, and unusual skin sores.[41] Additionally, in children, there were reports of poor cognitive development.

A few studies of workers indicate that PCBs were associated with specific kinds of cancer in humans, such as cancer of the liver and biliary tract. Polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) have been shown to mimic the action of oestrogen in breast cancer cells and can enhance breast carcinogenesis.[42] Rats that ate food containing high levels of PCBs for two years developed liver cancer. The Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) has concluded that PCBs may reasonably be anticipated to be carcinogens. The EPA and the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) have determined that PCBs are probably carcinogenic to humans. PCBs are also classified as probable human carcinogens by the National Cancer Institute, World Health Organization, and the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry. Recent research by the National Toxicology Program has confirmed that PCB126 (Technical Report 520) and a binary mixture of PCB126 and PCB153 (Technical Report 531) are carcinogens.

Polychlorinated biphenyl

You say we need a "can-do" attitude. We do: we can do better than your solution. We can do better than offshore drilling, and we can do better than chemically enhanced mass produced food. We're already virtual walking bags of chemicals, so why would we want to make it any worse? Shouldn't we be doing better, finding new ways to make the world a healthier and safer place for later generations both?

EDIT:

Sarah Palin is on the way to the White House.
Item 1 on the agenda is Drill Baby Drill.
Get used to it.

If - and that's a big if - she gets to the White House, she will have to go through the coastal region communities to get to that oil. And believe me, there are more than just a few that oppose it.


[edit on 10-2-2010 by Someone336]

reply to post by Someone336


Your small town is starting to sound like Sag Harbor.
There are other jobs to create.
Hotels and motels
Restaurants
Art Galleries
Sporting Supply Stores
OH! Boat Charters! Go catch a marlin.
What's wrong with that?
See, i told you.
For every problem there is a solution.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by Someone336

 

Your small town is starting to sound like Sag Harbor.
There are other jobs to create.
Hotels and motels
Restaurants
Art Galleries
Sporting Supply Stores
OH! Boat Charters! Go catch a marlin.
What's wrong with that?
See, i told you.
For every problem there is a solution.

Hey Eurisko ! I agree with you now! You have Enlightened me!


GO TEAM PALIN GO!
Off Shore Drilling is the way to go!

reply to post by Someone336


Why are you trying to reason with this guy ,

He's a few Mcnuggets short of a happy meal.

Eurisko2012 is John Titor!!!! LOL

Wait.........I mean, he/she/they are just being used for the same effect.....controversy. Gotta keep those ratings up.

Hey where's FlyerFan lately? Oh yeah, once she figured out what was happening here at ATS, she stopped posting.

Really???????? Letting a thread like this even exist on a link from Sarah Palin's facebook account?

Originally posted by Koolcdj69
Now what is your opinion on Sarah Palin's crib notes Eurisko ?

Sarah writes a few words on her hand? So what?
I guess she could have written them on a 3 X 5 card.
Who cares?
At least she is not reading from a teleprompter.
You know you should really watch that Tea Party Conference video
i posted. You're missing out. She hit a home run.
Everybody loved her! There is a Q & A at the end.

reply to post by Eurisko2012

Sarah Palin is on the way to the White House.
Item 1 on the agenda is Drill Baby Drill.
Get used to it.

Not a chance in hell.

Besides, even if you let oil companies drill, there is no reason they should when the fact remains that if they drill and glut the market with more oil it will hurt their profits.

Supply and demand, sure there is a demand for more oil. But if they increase supply they will cut their own throats. Never going to happen. I would support off shore drilling, but it won't create more jobs.

WASHINGTON, January 28, 2010 – American Petroleum Institute President and CEO Jack Gerard issued the following statement today on the State of the Union address:

“We are encouraged by the President’s words that decisions need to be made about opening new offshore areas for oil and gas development. These are important and necessary decisions for the American people and the American economy. Greater access to America's vast oil and natural gas resources would bring more domestic energy, thousands of American jobs, billions in government revenues and less reliance on imported energy.

“We support the President on jobs and are ready to do our part putting more Americans back to work. But to create these jobs, we will need policies that allow investment and development -- policies that are pro-job, pro-consumer and pro-energy. We are ready to work with the administration to help make that happen.”

www.api.org...

And Obama's own words on offshore drilling...

“But to create more of these clean energy jobs, we need more production, more efficiency, more incentives. And that means building a new generation of safe, clean nuclear power plants in this country. It means making tough decisions about opening new offshore areas for oil and gas development. It means continued investment in advanced biofuels and clean coal technologies. And yes, it means passing a comprehensive energy and climate bill with incentives that will finally make clean energy the profitable kind of energy in America.”

From his state of the union address.

www.nytimes.com...

So you made an assumption based on a lie, and Obama actually supports offshore drilling, but because Obama proposed it, your obviously going to be against it. Using Sarah Palin's facebook page as a source doesn't cut it.