"America cursed by God if we reject Israel " From Rep. Bachmann (Minn)

reply to post by buttking


...and what, pray, have others in the region attempted to do in several different wars to the Israelis?

As with every conflict, there is a flipside to the coin. No one is innocent...

Originally posted by mamabeth

Listen lady,anyone can know the will of God,even you! How,you ask?
By reading God's word,the Bible,that's how!

Please don't put words in my mouth. I was not being sarcastic, but terribly literal.

I have serious doubts that by reading the bible, one can make adequate judgments on God's future actions regarding our foreign policy.

There is nothing in the Bible that is required to make good and proper policy choices, but you claim to know the will of God when his actions seem to change over time.

Couldn't you be wrong? Your information is rather old at best.

reply to post by KrazyJethro


i understand the mamabeth reference, while I may not agree, i do understand your point. As far as policy, how can we not as human being's allow our belief system "not" to affect our policy making decisions, if it is what we hold to be true in our hearts, than we tend to act upon it in our decision making... "do we not"?

[edit on 9-2-2010 by freetree64]

Originally posted by freetree64
What's more insane? The courage to follow a belief in your religon, while knowing it is unpopular, yet guaranteed by the Constitution. Or is it insane to deny your true beliefs in the face of controversy, and lie to the American public?

Scroll down on the link you provided and some commentators speak on how much money AIPAC sent her, perhaps there's a reason for her to be brownosing like never before.

What's your opinion on islamic extremism?
Do you also respect that or is it only judeo-christian extremism that you respect?

Keep church and state seperate, and especially keep extreme religious beliefs seperate.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I respect both, although, I may only agree with one, and yes, religon must be kept separate. However, I do not advocate extremism, violent, in any religon, christian, muslim, hindu, or otherwise.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
...or they may find that groups like Al Qaida were just using the "Zionist" excuse because it was convenient and merely find some other reason to hang their hatred of America on. You never know.

That's supposition that hasn't been tried so how would one know? One would easily say that AQ and groups like them wouldn't give a damn if the US didn't back Israel to the hilt. Which sounds more logical to you?

The ultimate question is should we gamble away our one tried and true ally on the chance that we could ultimately gain more allies in the region?

And how is Israel a "tried and true" ally? What does Israel do for the US? Many points could be made as to what Israel hasn't done for the US. The USS Liberty comes to mind.

The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli jet fighter planes, followed shortly by motor torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the on-going Six-Day War. The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and a civilian), wounded 171 crew members, and severely damaged the ship. At the time, the ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nmi (29.3 mi; 47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish.[1]

Both the Israeli and US governments conducted inquiries into the incident, and issued reports, which concluded that the attack was a mistake, due to Israeli confusion about the identity of the USS Liberty. Some US diplomats, veterans and intelligence officials who were involved in the incident continue to dispute these official findings, saying the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was not a mistake, and it remains the only major maritime incident in US history not investigated by the US Congress.

en.wikipedia.org...

Yup, I'm pretty sure god cast them from the holy land when they turned their backs on him and worshiped a golden calf. Pretty sure they where forced to wander aimlessly after that. I'd imagine God was pretty mad at them after he put all that work in to free them from Egypt and all that. I mean raining fire and parting a sea not to mention killing a bunch of first born sons and manifesting a giant flaming tornado of doom has to be one heck of a workout.

They where as ungrateful then as they are now.

[edit on 9-2-2010 by DaMod]

[edit on 9-2-2010 by DaMod]

reply to post by freetree64


Then how can you respect what you don't advocate?

You seem to be flip flopping.

Can you tell me with confidence what you believe in?

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
Actually, the worst thing to ever happen to the GOP was marginalization brought about by a shift towards the center and a liberalization of their fiscal policies.

I agree to an extent, however I say it is worse because their social policy is absurd and based on something that can only be described as anti-intellectual and emotional.

Their fiscal policy shift, which abhorrent, is not based in religion. Therefore we could at least have a rational discussion about it.

I will agree with you, to a degree, as the evangelical aspect did manifest itself in the form of driving part of that fiscal liberalism in the form of increased gloabl aid and global policing under the guise of bringing freedom to the overall world.

I'd say it manifests mostly in their domestic social policy, although I'll grant that does certainly have influence over some fiscal elements.

The link between Barry Goldwater's incredible vision of fiscal conservatism and personal liberty and Ronald Reagan's embracing of those ideals AND mixing in a generous dose of Christian underpinnings was essentially crapped on when the GOP opted to undercut their conservative morals in favor of this "compassionate conservativism" crap. The religious foundation, itself, didn't destroy the GOP... it was the fluff they embraced to try and woo the less conservative voters which did the deed.

Perhaps. The day they departed from Goldwater was a sad day indeed.

I won't say I disagree with you, but it would make an interesting discussion. Good analysis.

Peace,
KJ

I don't always like the things the U.S. does either.I am not going to
turn my back on my country because a lot of bozos want to run it to
the ground!
I have said this before and I'm going to repeat myself.I dare any of
you to name ONE country on this planet that has not committed any
kind of crimes.Name one if you can!

Judaism FORBIDS jews to live in the holy lands until the coming of the jewish messiah

Jews REJECTED a jewish messiah -------- remember ?


Jews are forbidden to live in teh holy lands


Yet they're THERE !


They've been murdering, raping and robbing the Palestinians for 60 years

and the US has been funding that rape, murder and robbery



Jews slander and defame Christ at every opportunity


Yet this idiot woman claims 'God will curse the US if it rejects Israel ' ?????



Israel rejects the Son of God . American Christians are Ok with that, huh ?


Israel has no legitimacy under Judaism. American Christians ignore that too, huh ?


It's looking as if American Christians aren't Christian at all


So what ARE they ?

reply to post by intrepid


Not only that but what about this:
www.ynetnews.com...

30BN to Israel Obama sent?
Imagine if that was used in house!

Economically, imagine if Israel returned all the money U.S. gave.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I am a christian, and believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God, made flesh on this earth to take away the sin of mankind, and only through believing in him, can we have eternal life. No filp flopping for me, I know what I believe, and I am not ashamed to say it. I can also respect the belief's of other's without having to share those belief's myself. will that work for ya ModernAcademia?

Originally posted by freetree64
i understand the mamabeth reference, while I may not agree, i do understand your point.

Fair enough my friend.

As far as policy, how can we not as human being's allow our belief system "not" to affect our policy making decisions, if it is what we hold to be true in our hearts, than we tend to act upon it in our decision making... "do we not"?

I do not ask for personal belief systems to affect our general choices, but I've never found that any religion is required in order to back up said choices.

Example, I am a pro-life atheist. I debate the topic frequently, even with pro-life Christians and find that my understanding of the topic and the depth of my opinion is vastly superior to those with superficial (emotional/religious) reasoning.

I expect there to be sound, real world reasoning to policy choices, even if the decision is founded in religious belief.

reply to post by mamabeth


Jamaica...

2nd line.

Ben Gurion and other early zionists admitted

that " The Palestinians are descended from the area's original jews "


They knew it. They admitted it. They wrote it in their diaries

Since then, generations of jews have also admitted it and written it in books


Israeli jews have not a drop of semitic blood

Palestinians are the descendants of true jews, who later converted to Islam


Israel ... which makes such a BIG DEAL of its supposed 'semitic heritage'

has been murdering the descendants of Biblical jews for 60 years plus


American Christians are fine with that, huh ?

reply to post by freetree64


That's fine

But you said that you respect what she said yet you don't advocate extremism. That is flip flopping.

That is what I would like you to expand on please.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


I'm curious to understand how everyone knows that the country Israel, as we know it today, is exactly what God was referring to in the Bible? I'm not convinced that the Israel that the USA is sided with is the one that God was referring to...just because a country was "formed" and called Israel does not mean it is the promised land that the Almighty was speaking of. The circumstances in which surrounded the "birth" of Israel as a state (country) is anything but ideal. You can't rob land from an established population and slap a name on it then expect everyone in the world to recognize it as "the promised land". Although, I must say, the people who marketed sympathy and compassion for Israel have done an amazing job to make individuals think that this is what God meant, this is what God wanted, this is what we all must protect. That is ridiculous.

Frankly, a group took land from people and called it Israel and now we are all supposed to be devoted to it's survival while others suffer at their hands - it's God's will!?? Wow, that is is not the amazing God that I know and I AM Christian.

So, when I see the mexican boy on the street in my neighborhood named Jesus - does that mean he is the actual Son of God himself?!

Hmmm...better keep my eyes peeled for him then.

Money has corrupted our Government..

To a point now where we have God fearing representatives representing MN, afraid that the man in the sky will curse her and the country she lives in if she was to vote nay, for something not in the best interest for the PEOPLE of America.

Money has corrupted our Government..



I respect her belief in God, or whatever, but basically saying her religious views are in high emotion to her well being, effects how she does her job I beleive..

She is not very inteligent.
Oh and she was elected to represent MN..

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by intrepid
Well the bad is easy to pick out. What would the "good" be?

Depends on your beliefs, actually. If you're among those who believe the Bible, the "good" is something less than tangible in this life, but promised in life to come. (I'm starting to realize that the differences between Christianity and Islam as to actions and promises may not be so disimmilar... Hmmm, always an odd feeling to recognize personal understanding and growth as it takes place.) If you are not among those who believe in that, then I guess the "good" is that the US always has a guaranteed usable airbase close to the Persian Gulf.

That's not entirely accurate. Christians (according to christian beliefs purely and not the bastardization some people use for gain), if they lead a good life filled with helping other people and loving their neighbor, they go to heaven. Else, they go to hell

Muslims kill the infidel you get a bunch of virgins.

That's night and day dude.