Schools War On Religion?

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Speaking as a teacher.....

I am given a curriculum by the state that tells me what I am required to teach. If you are interested in that curriculum, google your state department of education and it will be on their website. Those curriculums do vary state to state, by the way.

When I present any scientific idea that is somewhat controversial, I let the students know its controversial and why. Makes a great lesson on thinking creatively. Of course, that assumes the students are at the developmentally appropriate level for such a lesson.

As a teacher, I've been asked many times about my personal belief and faith. I can discuss that with the student and with the class.....but what I cannot do is present my belief as absolute TRUTH. In other words, I can say "This is what I believe and why...." Usually such discussions occur in a one-on-one setting, like after school or whatnot.

Separation of church and state is more than just keeping religious dogma out of schools. It also separates what churches can do with regards to government. It boils down to the fact that our government is not a theocracy and keeping things separated helps insure it stays that wayl.

I apologize, I hadn't read your post before I posted.

Good job.

reply to post by KrazyJethro

I think it's debatable that Stalin ruled in atheistic form,

Show me an athiest leader who did not commit or aid mass murder.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Excellent post. There is quite a lot of misconceptions in regards to religion and school, and it's good to hear from someone who works in the public schools system to clear the air. And kudos on being a teacher. Our children are the future of our society, and educating them is one the most vital tasks we have. Mind if I ask what grade level or subject?

Originally posted by Dock9

Until we dismiss the failed Public Education model run by the State, we can not (and should not) have any funding for religious institutions or religious schools nor can we have any religious discussions in school.

When are you going to dismiss the Public Education model ?

Will it be this century ? Ever ?


Meanwhile, children at jewish and muslim schools WILL continue to receive religious instruction

and it's only Christian kids who will not

There are hundreds of thousands of christian schools in this country. Parents can send their kids there just as the Jews and Muslims do.

Originally posted by TokiTheGreat
Now why would you want to teach religion in public schools? Is anybody really that hell-bent on dumbing down our country even more than it already is? I'm not anti-religion, but school is a place where you go to learn facts and science.

pplrnuts, I love your signature.

[edit on 9-2-2010 by TokiTheGreat]

Yes... they are hell bent on dumbing things down. The world to them is complicated and frightening and they need their religion to face it... to reduce everything to tiny little understandable fairy tales they can carry like mace in case they are faced with reality. They then use it to spray reality in the eyes, lol.

reply to post by zaiger


O thats right, only when religious people commit genocide it is called a commandment from god. EVERY battle in the bible was some horiffic thing justifid by coming from the mouth of a lunitic claiming to hear voices.

Hitler was NOT an atheist. The only country where LEADERS can NOT have religion is China so atleast try to bring them into this.....

Originally posted by fat_frank
Public schools are like the government: dominated by morons, whether liberal or republican, and morons are not friendly to the truth, further, most of the world is corrupt, so of course public (world) schools, are going to be an unfriendly place. They aren't CHRISTIAN schools, remember?

And thank "god" they aren't "christian" schools, or I would take my kids out in a heartbeat. Keep your religion at home and at your church. The "morons" I work with not only are friendly to the "truth" but encourage young minds to seek truth, as opposed to some fantasy about a magical guy in the sky, who doesn't answer prayer, and could care less about mankind. You want to discuss "morons"? Look in the mirror my friend.

Mind if I ask what grade level or subject?

reply to post by Lasheic


I have an elementary licensce, which means I'm qualifed to teach Kindergarten thru sixth grade for NC. It varies year to year what grade I teach, just depends on the where the need for teachers currently resides. In the past five years I've taught four different grades and its so much fun to watch the kids change right before your eyes......

I usually love my job

reply to post by Wertdagf

EVERY battle in the bible was some horiffic thing justifid by coming from the mouth of a lunitic claiming to hear voices.

So the bible has factual events when it suits your argument?

Hitler was NOT an atheist. The only country where LEADERS can NOT have religion is China so atleast try to bring them into this.....

Never said anything about hitler...
Pol Pot, Atheist: 2 million dead
Joseph Stalin, Atheist: 20 million plus dead
Kim-Il-Sung, Atheist: 5 million dead
Mao Zedong, 50 million dead

atheist dictators killed millions of people over the past century and murdered hundreds of thousands in an effort to eradicate religion itself, because, you know, mass murder is the inevitable result when a community becomes
[irony]
too intolerant of outlandish dogmas and too fond of critical thinking.
[/irony]

[edit on 10-2-2010 by zaiger]

reply to post by zaiger


There ya go. Thats a much better point. A country based on advancement of atheism using such vicious methods to gain the removal of religion.

I very much agree with you that they are doing it WRONG, but this also works for every country founded on religion. Religious rule has been going on for the past 6000 years its only NOW in the last 100 years that atheism has been given an oppurtunity to stear the boat. Unfortunalty both parties have been ignorant children. Only the future offers the possiblity of an athiest leadership to be done right.... thats something religion cannot offer.

reply to post by Wertdagf

NOW in the last 100 years that atheism has been given an oppurtunity to stear the boat.

That is kind of my point. The christians stopped fighting their holy war a loooooong time ago. Since then they have changed and have a much more peacefull approach however atheists with their non-belief in stupid dogmas (or steewpid as dawkins says) have really thrown themselves into the dark ages with their genocides and what not.

Originally posted by Mykahel
In all actuality, a teacher can be asked what they believe and say exactly that without fear of being fired in many schools. I have numerous friends who are teachers and they have told me that they cannot initiate a conversation about G-d or their beliefs, but if asked they can have the conversation.

I agree that religion should not be taught in schools from the standpoint of teaching one over the other, but some education is necessary for a proper understanding of history. America's own history would fall apart (and now has) if you remove the religious implications and foundations of what was done and why.


What really concerns me is that schools are teaching more and more about sex and related issues. Is this not also a topic that should be reserved for home? STD's may be appropriate for health class but that's about as much sex education a student needs to get from our government. They are bringing this stuff to younger and younger kids. If sex is fair game in school, then religion should be as well.

Also, there is a difference between promoting a religion and allowing for religion. Many schools still allow for a christian group to meet in the school for their own club/extra-curricular activities.

I taught sex ed last year to 7th and 8th graders. You worry about what we are teaching your kids? You should be worried about what your kids are teaching other kids, my friend. I was shocked at what these kids know, think they know, and what they do, including activities in school bathrooms. From my standpoint, the kids are in desperate need of sex education that is honest and open. They need to hear the facts straight up. And, unfortunately, they need sex ed younger and younger all the time.

Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by Wertdagf

 

EVERY battle in the bible was some horiffic thing justifid by coming from the mouth of a lunitic claiming to hear voices.

So the bible has factual events when it suits your argument?

Hitler was NOT an atheist. The only country where LEADERS can NOT have religion is China so atleast try to bring them into this.....

Never said anything about hitler...
Pol Pot, Atheist: 2 million dead
Joseph Stalin, Atheist: 20 million plus dead
Kim-Il-Sung, Atheist: 5 million dead
Mao Zedong, 50 million dead

atheist dictators killed millions of people over the past century and murdered hundreds of thousands in an effort to eradicate religion itself, because, you know, mass murder is the inevitable result when a community becomes
[irony]
too intolerant of outlandish dogmas and too fond of critical thinking.
[/irony]

[edit on 10-2-2010 by zaiger]

Where did the poster state the bible was factual? The "stories" in the OT are filled with violence and death perpetrated by a vengeful "god". So, if your claim is that athesit dictators killed millions of people, then I guess that puts them right up there with your "god'.

reply to post by zaiger


Well i suppose its only logical that now atheists have a turn. right? Seeing as how god, freewill, and the soul have NO PROOF.

Isreal and Iran are about to explode any moment... you know why? because the ignorant isrealies need to fulfill prophecy to reinforce their delusions of grandure.

Its not over for the judeochristians BY A LONG SHOT. The only reason the fighting died down was mutualy assured distruction..... which, even religious people dont mind because their going to heaven anyway.

reply to post by Wertdagf

Isreal and Iran are about to explode any moment... you know why? because the ignorant isrealies need to fulfill prophecy to reinforce their delusions of grandure.

No they are not fighting over a prophecy, that is just something christians say to back up their bible.

The only reason the fighting died down was mutualy assured distruction..... which, even religious people dont mind because their going to heaven anyway.

Where did you pull that out of? So do athiest leaders kill millions of people for the fun of it, or is it because it will not matter when they are dead anyways?

reply to post by aero56

Where did the poster state the bible was factual? The "stories" in the OT are filled with violence and death perpetrated by a vengeful "god". So, if your claim is that athesit dictators killed millions of people, then I guess that puts them right up there with your "god'.

You are retarded. I have not mentioned my religion so you have no idea what my god is. Athiest leaders kill millions of people for no real reason use your superior atheist logical critical thinking skills to get over it.

reply to post by zaiger


You refuse to acknowledge the horrors purpetrated by religious rule. You say the fighting has died down and that mutually assured distruction has nothing to do with it.....

The amount of people killed by athiest understanding is NOTHING compared to those killed by religion. The understanding of a world without god is still growing. There are religious people who will choose to die and kill others when their fantasys evaporate.

When a religious person violently revolts agianst a government that discourages religion its not murder.... its suicide by cop. If you do some reseach on these so called Atheist murders you might find the situations in which religious people died were their own fault.

I taught sex ed last year to 7th and 8th graders. You worry about what we are teaching your kids? You should be worried about what your kids are teaching other kids, my friend. I was shocked at what these kids know, think they know, and what they do, including activities in school bathrooms. From my standpoint, the kids are in desperate need of sex education that is honest and open. They need to hear the facts straight up. And, unfortunately, they need sex ed younger and younger all the time.

reply to post by aero56


Amen, and amen.

I have had second graders discussing, in explicit detail, various sexual acts and how to commit them.

I've had a third grader demonstrate pole dancing during lunch (who knew the cafeteria could be so interesting)..

I've had six graders pregnant and absolutely clueless about how it happened. Seriously.

Where are they learning these things? Television, radio, video games, movies....but they do need to hear some sort of truth and they need it younger every year.

reply to post by aero56


I meant no disrespect to any of of our teachers here if that is how my post was taken. I disapprove of our educational system in general but have the utmost respect for the teachers out there actually doing their jobs. (I considered becoming a teacher myself for a while)

You are right, it does scare me what these kids know and think they know. Much of what they learn is either from each other or the movies, internet, etc. I do think our kids need to be taught about sex, and it should be done so openly, but I think it is something that should be done in the home, not the classroom. I don't want any stranger, or even good friend, teaching my kid about sex. At the very least, that educational material should not be required but optional with parental consent. Just mho though.

Edit: Regretfully many parents seem to not have had their balls drop yet (not sure how its possible but eh) and simply won't talk about sex with their kids and that puts you in the situation you are in. I'm a youth minister myself, so I have seen my fair share of young people facing the consequences of poor, uneducated decisions.

[edit on 10-2-2010 by Mykahel]

I meant no disrespect to any of of our teachers here if that is how my post was taken. I disapprove of our educational system in general but have the utmost respect for the teachers out there actually doing their jobs.

reply to post by Mykahel


I didn't think you were being disrespectful at all, never even crossed my mind. No worries.

I, too, disapprove of the educational system in general. I think you'd find a lot of teachers who have similar feelings.

As to teaching sex ed in school, I agree that it should be a parental option. You are right, a lot of parents feel very uncomfortable discussing sex with their kids (I'm kinda dreading the "talk" myself) but it still needs to happen. For those who are uncomfortable, the school nurse can provide some support. And for those parents who have things under control, you just sign the paper that states you'd prefer your children not attend the class.

One of the big problems with sex ed, I think, is that coming from a school system feels very clinical and scientific...no room to speak about romance, emotions, etc. Whereas parents can bring those issues (and religious issues, as well) into play.

Little synchronicity there....you once thought about being a teacher. I once thought about being a minister.....