Schools War On Religion?

reply to post by theflamingswan92
One last thing...

Just what else would you be willing to take out of the family unit and place in the responsibility of the state?

reply to post by LadySkadi


I have said on many posts in this thread it should be up to the child. Schools force evolution on you, and if they are going to do that they should also teach religious aspects of creation, if not, then not teach anything creation related at all.. there are plenty of other things to teach.

reply to post by theflamingswan92


There is absolutely zero evidence of creation. It is a myth.

The same cannot be said about evolution.

Why bother wasting time teaching some fictional story such as creation?

[edit on 9-2-2010 by brainwrek]

reply to post by brainwrek


If what you say, you believe to be true.. "a mythical story?" something like that... Then why would it bother you so much to take 10 minutes to look it over? Don't tell me you believe monkeys just showed up here?...

Even if I am wrong about God (which I have no doubts) it still wouldnt hurt to learn both sides.

I believe in God, many people do... you call him a "mythical being" why teach it? Why teach Zeus, The Oddessy? Those are mythical too right?

Sorry you said fictional.. Just replace mythical with fictional for me... I'm too lazy to edit right now.

The purpose of the public school system is to teach the fundamentals of the different subjects as determined by the state and the different department of education, to prepare the youth to be productive citizens of the country. The problem with teaching of religion in the public school system is that it is a cross section of the population, and by teaching on religion over another, then you take a chance that someone or group is going to get offended by the lack of mention by another. There are religious schools that teach, as part of what the teachers believe, their prospective beliefs, be it Islam, Judaism, Catholic, or Christian. It is wrong to ask a teacher or a student what they believe in, as it has no bearing in the public classroom, as it can lead to misunderstandings, and or someone may be offended. The reality is that there are a large number of religions and beliefs out there, and sects within those beliefs, and it is inevitable that one sect would offend the rest. So I would say leave it out of the public school system.

reply to post by sdcigarpig


Okay, I see what you mean, but I just think it is unfair to show just one possibility... It basically says to the students "this is all there is..." I think they should teach every aspect of creation, from every religion, and every scientific possibility, or not teach creation at all..

Originally posted by theflamingswan92

My point exactly, it will never happen hence the title... Schools war on Religion.

There is no war on religion by schools - it's a straw man.

It's like saying war on murderers because it's illegal to kill someone.

Originally posted by leftystrat

Originally posted by theflamingswan92

My point exactly, it will never happen hence the title... Schools war on Religion.

There is no war on religion by schools - it's a straw man.

It's like saying war on murderers because it's illegal to kill someone.

Yeah thats true, but it is still wrong to force ideaologys into childrens minds, things like what made us science or God should be determined by themselves, not in a school system.

Sorry to all of you but we teach scientific atheism in public schools, creation is a cosmic blow and then a random gaseous soup of atoms hit by lightening begets life but forget the zeus... evolution is all about the one that gets the resources and doesn't get eaten by the other then wins to reproduce.... carry on...


but the world didn't work that way all the poor people had all the kids...

out with god and out with morality, in with madness

and the poor began to suffer even more

ironically the greeks invented the scientific method while looking for 'the natural laws of god' theory means 'natural law of god' hypothesis is literally 'underlying natural law of god' as in not yet uncovered... theo as in theology... that definition of theo being god is still in the oxford english dictionary

and yes I teach that in about every science class I teach where the kids have the vocabulary skills to understand...

I think we have re-discovered at least one natural law, lack of morality and virtue within a society leads to madness

Originally posted by leftystrat

I'm right with you, except that even if education were to get revamped, it's still counter to the 1st Amendment to teach religion.

It's not against the 1st amendment to teach religion in private schools that do not receive public funds. It only applies to the government and that which is funded by government.

reply to post by DChenO


Nonetheless my friend, I still believe it is unethical to teach one thing in substitution of another. I am not going to question your beliefs, but if you teach one thing and neglect another, you unintentionally disprove Genesis... I'm sure you must have had some distraught religous students before, correct?

Originally posted by theflamingswan92
If what you say, you believe to be true.. "a mythical story?" something like that... Then why would it bother you so much to take 10 minutes to look it over? Don't tell me you believe monkeys just showed up here?...

Because there is nothing to back it up. At best it's huge logical leaping and a rebranding of Creationism. Thoughts on science, however, can be changed based on evidence. Thoughts on religion, however, are normally only changed when social pressure will no longer stand aside and watch wrong go on.

Mormons and civil rights for example. Christianity with slavery is another good one, although that one took a long long time and still isn't really over.

Even if I am wrong about God (which I have no doubts) it still wouldnt hurt to learn both sides.

The question is, would it help? I'd suggest not.

I believe in God, many people do... you call him a "mythical being" why teach it? Why teach Zeus, The Oddessy? Those are mythical too right?

The fact that people believed it at one time is not fantasy. I have serious doubts folks these days would believe such, outside of a Hindu nation that is.

reply to post by KrazyJethro


I believe it may help students who don't believe to get a sence of why us relgious people think the way we do. No matter what religion or belief system, or even lack of belief system you may have, there is always a higher power...

Originally posted by theflamingswan92
I believe it may help students who don't believe to get a sence of why us relgious people think the way we do.

Why should we care why it is you believe the way you do? Is this the only area we should interject?

Why not in biology to explain your perspective on abortion and (for some... Catholics) contraception. Perhaps even homosexuality.

This is a moot point in my opinion.

No matter what religion or belief system, or even lack of belief system you may have, there is always a higher power...

You'll need more than just saying it to make this point. Because you think this way does not mean others do.

reply to post by KrazyJethro


Well this is my thread, and while I can't speak for them I am sure more people feel the same way as me, than people who don't. It is my belief that both should be taught.

And it is more perdominatly the Catholics who believe in abortion and homosexuality. Although I do agree with contraception. But thats not the point... The point isn't what we think, its what is being taught. I think a study of both evolutiopn and religion will be more benificial.

Originally posted by theflamingswan92
Well this is my thread, and while I can't speak for them I am sure more people feel the same way as me, than people who don't. It is my belief that both should be taught.

It's been said that the more widely held a belief, the higher tenancy it has to be wrong. While not entirely true, it certainly can be said that more people does not equal validity.

And it is more predominately the Catholics who believe in abortion and homosexuality. Although I do agree with contraception. But thats not the point...

I don't understand what you mean. You agree with Catholics on contraception? I know it's not the point, but for clarity it'd be interesting to know.

The point isn't what we think, its what is being taught. I think a study of both evolution and religion will be more beneficial.

To be honest, I tend to agree abstractly, however supporting some kind of weird religious/science hybrid isn't the way to do things properly.

If you support the teaching of religions in school as a perspective-widening venture, I'd be much more inclined to agree with you provided we removed the schools from the public dime.

Without public funds, schools could easily do as they wished, and could certainly teach world religions to the betterment of students. I might even suggest that education would become cheaper and parental involvement would increase as a result.

reply to post by KrazyJethro


That is exactly what I'm saying a perspective-widening venture. Like I previously stated I wouldnt force anything on anyone. To me evolution is a theroy only. I believe in God. However, people who believe in evolution should at least hear creationism as a theroy

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

It's not against the 1st amendment to teach religion in private schools that do not receive public funds. It only applies to the government and that which is funded by government.

Sorry, I missed the private part.

We agree.

Originally posted by theflamingswan92
That is exactly what I'm saying a perspective-widening venture. Like I previously stated I wouldnt force anything on anyone. To me evolution is a theroy only. I believe in God. However, people who believe in evolution should at least hear creationism as a theroy

My point is that you are fighting a wrong-sided fight when you really don't need to.

Evolution is simply our current best estimate of what lead us to now, but it is the culmination of evidence. While the conclusions might be wrong, it is still based on something tangible and is an ongoing discussion.

Creationism, however, is vapidity in text form and is based in nothing tangible, subject to testing, and has not changed in thousands of years.

Hardly something for the science class. You're effort, while noble in it's basic premise, is really only Judeo-Christian focused. You would have better results if you railed for private education, or even for vouchers.