Schools War On Religion?

Why is it that you can not ask a student or a student ask a teacher thier religious beliefs? Why is it that they teach evalution and not creationism? Why is it that some teachers were suspended and fired for even saying God in a classroom? I will tell you why. They don't want you to think outside the box.

Jesus said,"Deny me in front of your friends and I will deny you in front of my father"...

This is purely speculation but I would love some extra insight.. Post comments below

reply to post by theflamingswan92


Interesting, isn't it ?

Do you think it's the same in Jewish or Muslim schools ?

How many of your tax-dollars pay or heavily subsidise 'faith based' schools, i.e., jewish and muslim schools ?

Maybe concerned parents should demand government builds and subsidises Christian (for example) schools with those tax dollars ? Then existing schools can cater for the children of parents who don't care or are athiests ?

Its because the bibles explination of reality is moronic.

Children should not be taught stupid useless LIES...... Well only if its an example of what NOT to be when you grow up. Pat robertson is a perfect example of the STUPIDITY religion creates.

[edit on 9-2-2010 by Wertdagf]

reply to post by theflamingswan92

They don't want you to think outside the box.

No, no, no...they don't want you to be confined to a box, both literally and figuratively, as organized religion has this effect on people.


Well done to the school administrators who promote this 'war on religion'...

reply to post by happygolucky


Wonder if we'll see the US government interfering
in the religious education of jews living in the US ?

reply to post by theflamingswan92


Because schools deal with reality and not a Bronze Age mythology. Creationism is a myth. A teacher's religious beliefs or lack there of are their own business and not anyone else's concern. You want your kids to learn religion, do it on your own time and dime. I want my child to learn science and history and not a stupid myth. Let me clue you - dying and resurrecting gods are a dime a dozen around the world so Yeshua bar Yusef was nothing special.

Since you cannot prove the existence of a god you cannot teach creationism.
If they disprove evolution tomorrow they would stop teaching it. its science its only based on observation and i have never seen a invisible man guiding things only the natural progress on animals hence why they dont teach creationism

reply to post by LibertyLover



Wonder if the US government is preventing teachers in Jewish and Muslim schools from discussing God ?

No ?

So Jewish and Muslim kids are receiving religious instruction at school ?

But Christian kids are not ?

I disagree with any religious discussion in school, for any reason.

Until we dismiss the failed Public Education model run by the State, we can not (and should not) have any funding for religious institutions or religious schools nor can we have any religious discussions in school.

Public schools are like the government: dominated by morons, whether liberal or republican, and morons are not friendly to the truth, further, most of the world is corrupt, so of course public (world) schools, are going to be an unfriendly place. They aren't CHRISTIAN schools, remember?

Until we dismiss the failed Public Education model run by the State, we can not (and should not) have any funding for religious institutions or religious schools nor can we have any religious discussions in school.

When are you going to dismiss the Public Education model ?

Will it be this century ? Ever ?


Meanwhile, children at jewish and muslim schools WILL continue to receive religious instruction

and it's only Christian kids who will not

reply to post by theflamingswan92

.
There always has and always besome sort of war on Christianity. It's the nature of the religion.

nor can we have any religious discussions in school.

reply to post by KrazyJethro


I disagree.

You have to be careful here, and consider the age of the children involved. Developmentally, young children don't think for themselves; they simply reguritate what they hear adults say. And this is why indoctrination at an early age works. Tell a child that the sky is blue when he's young, and he won't question it when he's older.

However.....

As a teacher who works with older students, I believe religious discussions can be extremely thought provoking if done correctly. The teacher should not be presenting the material as absolute truth, but as a possibility, a history lesson, a morality lesson, etc.... Let the students think for themselves, learn to define what they believe and why they believe it.

Its a popular misconception that teachers aren't allowed to talk about God or pray in school, and its not true. If a student asks me about God, I can explain my beliefs so long as I make it clear it is my belief and not necessarily fact.

You can't separate religion from history...in fact, I guess you could say religion is one of the main motivating forces behind history....so completely ignoring the subject of religion would cause problems when studying the past.

Why do Catholic schools have a Catholic agenda? Why do secular (public) schools have a secular agenda? Let's let schools teach math and science and church teach religion.

Originally posted by Dock9

When are you going to dismiss the Public Education model ?

Will it be this century ? Ever ?


Meanwhile, children at jewish and muslim schools WILL continue to receive religious instruction

and it's only Christian kids who will not

I don't know. I'd hope soon but I doubt it considering the unions have a stranglehold and are very powerful.

The question, is do Christians, Jewish, and/or Muslim schools receive public funds? If so they should all be cut off entirely.

No exceptions.

I do not think there is a "war" on religion in schools. Public schools do not teach religion as part of the mandatory curriculum, some schools do offer religious classes but it is not mandatory. One problem is that there are so many religions how many would you choose to teach about without losing site of what you are trying to teach. It is really easy to say creationalisim and evolution but scrap the rest because everyone else is crazy right? See no that simple even Hindu groups are opposed to teaching creationalisim and ID because it really only favors the christian and the hundreds of christian offshoot religions. If this is really a big issue for anyone they can put their kids in private schools if they want.
I do not think that religious should be outright banned from school but things like ID and creationalisim should be brought to the kids attention just to let them know that there are other alternatives to evolution. But as far as people being concerned about teaching kids "lies" you should ask a 3rd grader the story of thanksgiving.

Originally posted by Dock9

Until we dismiss the failed Public Education model run by the State, we can not (and should not) have any funding for religious institutions or religious schools nor can we have any religious discussions in school.

When are you going to dismiss the Public Education model ?

Will it be this century ? Ever ?


Meanwhile, children at jewish and muslim schools WILL continue to receive religious instruction

and it's only Christian kids who will not

Sucks for them...


And it shouldn't be one or another...and are you stating that somewhere in this thread someone alluded to that being the 'right' thing to do..?

Originally posted by smyleegrl

I disagree.

You have to be careful here, and consider the age of the children involved. Developmentally, young children don't think for themselves; they simply regurgitate what they hear adults say. And this is why indoctrination at an early age works. Tell a child that the sky is blue when he's young, and he won't question it when he's older.

No, they don't. The weak-minded do not question.

As a teacher who works with older students, I believe religious discussions can be extremely thought provoking if done correctly. The teacher should not be presenting the material as absolute truth, but as a possibility, a history lesson, a morality lesson, etc.... Let the students think for themselves, learn to define what they believe and why they believe it.

Perhaps that's true in a perfect world, but we do not live in one and this would be abused more often than not, subtly or overtly.

This is not in question, and while these discussions might be thought provoking, they are better left until after primary schooling. Additionally, moral quandaries are certainly numerous that do not include religion.

Its a popular misconception that teachers aren't allowed to talk about God or pray in school, and its not true. If a student asks me about God, I can explain my beliefs so long as I make it clear it is my belief and not necessarily fact.

I'm not saying what can't be done, but what shouldn't be done. There is no place in basic levels of education (k-12) for religious discussion, and as an extension of the State, they should not be done for very obvious reasons.

You can't separate religion from history...in fact, I guess you could say religion is one of the main motivating forces behind history....so completely ignoring the subject of religion would cause problems when studying the past.

There is a difference between discussing the circumstances of history and discussing religion itself. Obviously the Iliad would be tough to read, as most Greek and Roman history, without mentioning it, however most of these religions are currently dead and are really nothing more than history.

There is an obvious difference between teaching about Salem and why things happened, but discussing current religious dogma is wrong for Public Schools.

Alot of very interesting points. I have to agree while you are teaching something that can be proven, you are disproving religion to the students who believe in creationism

I personally attended an Episcopalian school growing up, and we brushed on both creationism and evalution. But we were allowed to make our own minds up. In school if you mention God they stop you, they will not let you talk about Him. What message does that convey to the believers?

The weak-minded do not question.

Agreed, but keep in mind that the ability to question is a developmental thing. People reach it at different ages (and, dare I say, some not at all?)

As a teacher who works with older students, I believe religious discussions can be extremely thought provoking if done correctly. The teacher should not be presenting the material as absolute truth, but as a possibility, a history lesson, a morality lesson, etc.... Let the students think for themselves, learn to define what they believe and why they believe it.



Perhaps that's true in a perfect world, but we do not live in one and this would be abused more often than not, subtly or overtly.

This is not in question, and while these discussions might be thought provoking, they are better left until after primary schooling. Additionally, moral quandaries are certainly numerous that do not include religion. erhaps that's true in a perfect world, but we do not live in one and this would be abused more often than not, subtly or overtly.

Agreed, we don't live in a perfect world. And I'm sure you'd have a folks who'd take the time to preach....but that's my point. We have these guidelines in place about how to discuss religion, and we can't teach it. By teaching it I mean not leading students to ponder, to question, or to examine, but to accept as absolute truth. Similar to how we teach mathematics in a sense.

But the problem is that students do ask about religion, because you can't divorce religious beliefs from everyday life. I can't tell you how many times a student has said, "But I thought this..." or "In church we learned this..." To casually dismiss these questions or simple state "Can't talk to you about this because we are at school" presents a real quandry for these students. I know, because I was one of those kids. I was questioning religion in middle school, and found it extremely frustrating to be told "Can't talk about it." Fact of the matter is, you do have some students who begin to question things earlier than others; for them, these discussions could add real depth to their education.


I agree with you, dogma does not belong in schools. And I realize that my argument asks for the teacher to walk a razor thin line....and that may be an impossibility. I understand the reasons why some would be opposed to religion being taught as truth in school but that is not my position. I hope this clarified it better.