It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

A murder mystery with the Iraq War as the backdrop

page: 1
6
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 8 2010 @ 12:42 PM
link   


The five sport-utility vehicles sat abandoned in the darkness. A faint beeping sound signaled that their doors were open. Some of the Iraqi police who arrived at the scene initially feared going near the cars, thinking the sound meant they were rigged to explode. Finally a few ventured closer. In the back of two of the vehicles were the four Americans. One of them was alive, though barely. Handcuffed, he had been shot in the back of the head, but he was breathing. The other soldiers were already dead. . .

www.time.com...

The story I am about to share is what I would describe as a "cloak and dagger murder mystery." It took place three years ago while the war was still in the bloody slug-fest we remember between Coalition Forces and Iraqi insurgents. Sectarian violence was in full effect, death squads performing home invasions nightly, bombs going off in public places, IED's at every corner, US service members getting killed daily, a shaky disposition toward Iran by the US government and Iraq's neighbor to the south, and President Bush's surge had begun. The climate of fear and foreboding was in full effect.

The information above should offer a little backdrop to the incident I am about to share; which intrigued me then as it does now. This mystery took place in the city of Karbala, Iraq. Karbala is one of the holiest sites in Shia Islam, and is visited yearly by millions of pilgrims.

en.wikipedia.org...

At the time, most of the area south of Baghdad was relatively secure, with sporadic attacks here and there, but nothing on scale of the carnage going on everyday within the capitol. Now, to anyone scratching the surface of this story it would appear normal. An attack took police, US soldiers were killed in an apparent ambush, and the typical run-of-the-mill happenings given the security situation at the time. However, there is so much more to this and quite shocking, such as, an infiltration of a joint US/Iraqi held provincial headquarters, abduction of US soldiers, betrayal, ornate disguises, and the use of US military issue equipment and vehicles.



A report from the military's investigation of the incident, a copy of which was obtained by TIME, says a convoy of eight sport-utility vehicles arrived at the outer gates of the complex shortly before the shooting started. The vehicles included a tan Suburban, a white Land Cruiser and a black Yukon. Inside the vehicles were at least eight men who wore American-style helmets and safety glasses, as well as some men wearing hoods in the way Iraqi interpreters working with U.S. forces sometimes do. According to the report, the Iraqi guards at the outer checkpoints put up no fight when the visitors ordered them, in English, to lay down their weapons and step aside.

www.time.com...

This incident has gone largely forgotten with the passage time, but has all the hallmarks of a good conspiracy. So, with the information above, it seems something sinister took place in Karbala some three years ago. The situation is almost akin to what US forces dealt with during the "Battle of the Bulge," as German soldiers donned US military uniforms to deceive the Allies and to stop their final push into Germany.

I just find the sophistication of this raid as quite astounding. Assailants were wearing US issue clothing and driving US style vehicles. Then, they spoke English as well. Plus, they essentially knew how to get in, take captives, and get out unscathed.



According to one Iraqi official, the militant team was led by a blond haired man. The attack occurred as the U.S. military convened a meeting to discuss security for Ashura. About a dozen U.S. troops were inside the compound at the time.

en.wikipedia.org...-CNN-01-23-1
www.cnn.com...



About a dozen U.S. troops were inside the compound at the time, al-Mishawi said.

Around 5:45 p.m., the gunmen cleared an Iraqi police checkpoint outside the center by flashing fake identification badges . . .

Al-Mishawi said it is standard procedure for U.S. troops not to jointly man the checkpoint. He said U.S. personnel insist on passing without going through a security screening.

The attackers went through three checkpoints to enter the center, he said.

The first U.S. casualty in the attack was a soldier sitting in a Humvee outside a meeting of U.S. and Iraqi security officials.

The assailants targeted only U.S. soldiers, al-Mishawi said, adding that not a single Iraqi soldier or police officer was killed.

www.cnn.com...


So, they were aware of US response tactics and security measures as well. Where these guys special forces performing a rogue mission for an Intelligence Agency or a sinister element within the US government to push an agenda, or were they elements of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard (who have been alleged to be operating in Iraq by the US), or even security contractors (who are essentially businessmen with machine guns, and only have allegiance to the almighty dollar as mercenaries) performing a moonlighting task for someone against the US mission in Iraq? Personally, from what I have read regarding this incident, I have a hard time believing it was disgruntled Iraqis acting alone?

So, many questions, and I know there are many more I am sure. However, when I read about this story in 2007, I was shocked by the how well orchestrated it was. Almost immediately, in the days and months that followed, the story went cold. Then during the summer, the US military broke the case wide open.



On July 2, 2007, the US military said that information from captured Hezbollah fighter Ali Moussa Dakdouk established a link between Quds Force and the Karbala raid. Dakdouk worked as a liaison between Quds force and the Shia group that carried out the raid. According to the US, Dakdouk said that the Shia group "could not have conducted this complex operation without the support and direction of the Quds force."

en.wikipedia.org...-14
news.bbc.co.uk...

Personally, I think the official story is rather convenient given the war drums that sounded against Iran then, and as they do now. However, could this be far more sinister, and not as neat and tidy as the official story would like us to believe? Self inflicted wound, or a false flag? So, what happened that dark winter evening in Karbala during the month of January 2007? Who was responsible, and for what purpose was this dastardly act of betrayal devised? The story may be old, but still relevant today. A war footing is taking place against Iran and US forces are still in Iraq. I am very interested to see what others think about this mystery that took place during one of the most controversial times of the decade.

www.time.com...
www.cnn.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.boston.com...
news.bbc.co.uk...




[edit on 8-2-2010 by Jakes51]




posted on Feb, 8 2010 @ 01:01 PM
link   
reply to post by Jakes51
 


Would it surpirse you if I told you this isnt the first time this happened.

Two soldiers were captured and killed at a checkpoint.... Just two Soldiers were on gaurd... TWO. Let that sink in.



posted on Feb, 8 2010 @ 01:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Jakes51
 


Would it surpirse you if I told you this isnt the first time this happened.

Two soldiers were captured and killed at a checkpoint.... Just two Soldiers were on gaurd... TWO. Let that sink in.


I am not following you? Please elaborate what you are implying here. When I read about the story three years ago it really give me a surprise. It wasn't a bunch of two-bit insurgents on a suicide mission, but a well planned raid on a military compound. Plus, the materials used to conduct such an operation were of US origin. Then as shown in the thread, one of the assailants appeared to have had, "blond hair." Not to many Iranians or Iraqis have blond hair that I am aware of? So, I don't know about you, but it seems kind of fishy to me. Thanks for the reply!



posted on Feb, 8 2010 @ 01:21 PM
link   
reply to post by Jakes51
 


This was a frequent accusation of U.S. military commanders in Iraq during the Bush Administration. Such allegations are heard much less frequently now and the scale of Iranian involvement in such attacks was probably exaggerated at the time.

In any case, what these accounts ignore is the fact that Iran spent over $750 million helping the United States topple the Taliban after 9/11 and was rewarded for its efforts with an "Axis of Evil" designation. The United States then sheltered the MKO, a terrorist group that had tried to assassinate the Iranian Supreme Leader, while simultaneously demanding that Iran release al Qaeda operatives in its custody to the United States.

Given these provocations, it is not inconceivable that elements in Iran were helping the Taliban/ Al-qaeda, just as America armed the Taliban to battle the Soviet Union (America's enemy) in the Eighties.

Any support for militias that attack U.S. forces is obviously inexcusable and unacceptable, then or now. The hard fact is, nations seldom do nice things for those they perceive as their enemies. During most of the period in question, the Bush Administration kept Iran in constant fear of bombing or invasion, while limiting its "diplomacy" with Iran to occasional meetings in which to air U.S. accusations of Iranian meddling.

Iran's role in Iraq is one of the factors that the Obama Administration must consider as it develops its overall approach to Iran on a range of issues. Iran is obviously much more likely to play a constructive role in Iraq & Afghanistan if included in consultations, than it will if it is excluded.



posted on Feb, 8 2010 @ 01:42 PM
link   
reply to post by Jakes51
 


Thanks for the thread invite friend. Ive never been to karbala before but I heard a story about 2 british SAS going to basra and shooting at innocent civilians, get captured by Iraqi police then get busted out of prison not long after they were captured so I would't doubt that this was a hire hit on soldiers from mercinaries but then again I have no proof of this so it is really conspiracy indeed. I hope I helped out at least a little.


Edit:$&F for good find.


[edit on 8-2-2010 by Stop-loss!]



posted on Feb, 8 2010 @ 01:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by Jakes51
 


This was a frequent accusation of U.S. military commanders in Iraq during the Bush Administration. Such allegations are heard much less frequently now and the scale of Iranian involvement in such attacks was probably exaggerated at the time.


Yes, I have to agree with about how silent it has been in the arena of Iran's alleged meddling in Iraq. Perhaps, they are still there to a certain degree, but we just don't hear about because US forces are largely in their bases at present. I often thought the US was using these alleged Iranian incursion as an excuse to carry out whatever diabolical plans the former administration had up their sleeves in dealing the Iranian nuclear issue.



In any case, what these accounts ignore is the fact that Iran spent over $750 million helping the United States topple the Taliban after 9/11 and was rewarded for its efforts with an "Axis of Evil" designation. The United States then sheltered the MKO, a terrorist group that had tried to assassinate the Iranian Supreme Leader, while simultaneously demanding that Iran release al Qaeda operatives in its custody to the United States.


I am not to familiar on your last statements. If you have any sources I would love to see them. Perhaps those things happened, but I am unaware at this time.



Given these provocations, it is not inconceivable that elements in Iran were helping the Taliban/ Al-qaeda, just as America armed the Taliban to battle the Soviet Union (America's enemy) in the Eighties.


I wouldn't be surprised if Iran is assisting terrorist elements opposed to the US either. However, both groups are religious opposed to Iran's version of Islam. Given the fact that the Taliban/Al-qaeda are Sunni, and the Iranian government is largely Shia. I guess in conflict the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We saw that with the US arming the Mujahideen in Afghanistan against the Soviets.



Any support for militias that attack U.S. forces is obviously inexcusable and unacceptable, then or now. The hard fact is, nations seldom do nice things for those they perceive as their enemies. During most of the period in question, the Bush Administration kept Iran in constant fear of bombing or invasion, while limiting its "diplomacy" with Iran to occasional meetings in which to air U.S. accusations of Iranian meddling.

Iran's role in Iraq is one of the factors that the Obama Administration must consider as it develops its overall approach to Iran on a range of issues. Iran is obviously much more likely to play a constructive role in Iraq & Afghanistan if included in consultations, than it will if it is excluded.


I agree with your first statement, and attacks against US forces by insurgent groups with support from governments we are technically not at war with is inexcusable. However, the US has done the same with other countries with the Soviet/Afghan War being one such instance. Then the Soviets and their support of North Vietnam during the Vietnam War.

The rhetoric concerning the Iran issue hasn't really changed, and yes, it seemed like President Bush kept Iran on edge with all the military threats throughout our tenure in Iraq. However, I am still unclear if the people responsible for the attack were indeed sanctioned by Iran, or maybe they were from the US government? Perhaps, they were utilized in such a way to make it appear that Iran carried out the assault, when indeed they did not. Disinformation seems rife lately, and some things just don't add up.

Iran must be dealt with considering their location to Iraq and their long relationship with the country. They can't be ignored, but will Obama seek their assistance in stabilizing Iraq? At the rate things are going that may never be, because it seems war is on the horizon. Thanks for the reply!

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Jakes51]



posted on Feb, 8 2010 @ 01:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by Stop-loss!
reply to post by Jakes51
 


Thanks for the thread invite friend. Ive never been to karbala before but I heard a story about 2 british SAS going to basra and shooting at innocent civilians, get captured by Iraqi police then get busted out of prison not long after they were captured so I would't doubt that this was a hire hit on soldiers from mercinaries but then again I have no proof of this so it is really conspiracy indeed. I hope I helped out at least a little.


Edit:$&F for good find.


[edit on 8-2-2010 by Stop-loss!]


Yes, that story about two British SAS soldiers was quite strange as this one was. If I remember correctly, the local police picked them up under the suspicion of being terrorists. They were wearing insurgent head dresses and had explosive materials on their persons. Then when word got out about who they were, a raid on the holding facility commenced. After their escape, the story went cold with time, and we still have no idea what they were up to?

Thanks for bringing that one up, because it is still a mystery. With the story in the thread, I too am having a hard time figuring out who they were, who sent them, and why? It has dogged me for three years since reading about the first time. It is a throwback, I know, but still worthy of discussion. Thanks for the reply, friend!



posted on Feb, 8 2010 @ 05:29 PM
link   
If I had to gander a guess which is about all I can do without having had the fortune to dig up all the background first hand myself at the time and scene of the crime I would speculate that this particular unit of soldiers had the misfortune of being sent somewhere on a mission to do something where they discovered something of such importance no mere normal soldier should ever know.

I would wager somewhere during their tour, these soldiers, and not to long before their actual deaths stumbled upon something so significant the secret of it and keeping the secret of it cost them their lives.

It might have been an actual routine mission that turned up something far, far from routine. Or it might have just been the unit venturing somewhere on their free time to investigate one of those curious mysteries that aren’t that hard to stumble upon in a foreign culture in a war zone.

I do know this. The very first thing to fall in Baghdad and also under somewhat shady and shadowy circumstances was the Museum.

Iraq is for all intents and purposes the cradle of civilization as we know it. Archeological ruins and antiquities in the region go back to the very beginning, well before even the Old Testament and the landscape is full of firsts and one of a kinds and legends of humankind’s very beginnings as a civilization.

Speculation and rumors abound by scholars over the actual significance of the world’s first recorded religion in Ur and Babylon within the borders of modern day Iraq. Some claim it is proof of extraterrestrial life and that we were seeded biologically by another race 10,000 years ago. The legendary Planet X is also born in this ancient religion and region.

Further the wandering in and out of Baghdad and the region by ancient races like the Jews has a documented history carved into stone in archeological sites in the region that predate tales of the Bible and other well regarded histories.

We do know that the U.S. Military has taken a great interest in Iraq’s antiquities. We also know that there was a staggering amount of wealth in gold and precious gems and American Dollars horded by the elite in Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.

Could these soldiers had been sent on a routine guard or outpost duty to some archeological site where they stumbled across a deadly secret that people would murder to keep secret?

Could these soldiers had mounted their own little Kelly’s Heroes style robbery and then later found themselves double crossed by the very men who provided the intelligence on the target?

All these things are possible in my humble opinion though we would have to find out much, much more about where all those soldiers had been while in Iraq.

Fascinating mystery Jakes51, quite intriguing and very well presented. Starred and flagged.



posted on Feb, 8 2010 @ 07:21 PM
link   
reply to post by Jakes51
 



Thanks for bringing that one up, because it is still a mystery. With the story in the thread, I too am having a hard time figuring out who they were, who sent them, and why?


If you could help me here. Right before this incident, do you remember a truck load of Iranian special forces being blown up by a roadside bomb? I seem to recall the story but I cannot find it in the news archives.

If you do look into the archives from that time period, there are a lot of accusations about Iran producing roadside bombs for the insurgency in Iraq. There are also a lot of other head lines about Iranian weaponry being recovered from insurgents. I believe the following idea is what I am more inclined to believe.

To get back at the Iranians, we blew up a truck load of their special forces guys with the help of a local dissident group. I cannot even remember the name of the dissident group but I know there is one. Like I said, I couldn't find anything in the archives.

With this, Iran ran an operation against us. They probably used a corporate soldier for hire company. Anyone can buy there services and some of them are highly skilled. Executive Outcomes comes to mind.

I do like Protoplasmic's theory and it may be the reason they were targeted. I am going to keep checking for that story though. Awesome work here my friend! S+F.



posted on Feb, 8 2010 @ 07:33 PM
link   
reply to post by Jakes51
 


Jake51, this is an interesting story and theory you postulate, indeed.

Almost as if it could have been a Black Operation, or "False-Flag Operation".

Hoist the Flag : False Flags, Agent Provocateurs, and Black Box Operations

A place like Karbala and in the Middle East would be the perfect place to escalate an already ongoing conflict, especially if the peace were being sought.

I am not saying it is or is not, but the fact that this happened brings into question many things.

Are our military being watched that closely so as to allow al Qaeda to imitate our troops?

Were there drones flying over head with video surveillance?

Where were the "Private Military Contractors" that have been the bane of most ATS'ers existence, like myself, who think they're not needed.

My thought is if they are there, regardless of my thoughts on them being needed, or not, then why were they not acting as support or even taking the brunt of this incident?

Was it "Private Military Contractors" disguised as al Qaeda?


Quote from : Wikipedia : Karbala

Karbala (Arabic: كربلاء‎; BGN: Al-Karbalā’; also spelled Karbalā' al-Muqaddasah) is a city in Iraq, located about 100 km (60 mi) southwest of Baghdad at 32.61°N, 44.08°E.

Karbala is the capital of Karbala Governorate, with an estimated population of 572,300 people (2003).

The city is best known as the location of the Battle of Karbala, and is amongst the holiest cities for Shī‘ah Muslims after Makkah, Madinah, and Najaf.

During the life of Husayn ibn ‘Alī, the city was also known as al-Ghādiriyyah, Naynawā, and Shāt al-Furāt.


Shiite pilgrimage to Karbala


Apparently it is a holy place to Muslim's.

Now, whether it was an al Qaeda attack, or a "False-Flag Operation", it is intriguing.

It has been standing since 680 so the Muslim's would fight for it.

And it could be a place that woud spark off violence if a "False-Flag Operation" were pulled off.



posted on Feb, 8 2010 @ 10:12 PM
link   

In a February 14, 2007 news conference US President George W. Bush reiterated his claim that the Quds Force was causing unrest in Iraq, stating “I can say with certainty that the Quds force, a part of the Iranian government, has provided these sophisticated IEDs that have harmed our troops. And I'd like to repeat, I do not know whether or not the Quds force was ordered from the top echelons of government. But my point is what's worse -- them ordering it and it happening, or them not ordering it and it happening? And so we will continue to protect our troops. …to say it [this claim] is provoking Iran is just a wrong way to characterize the Commander-in-Chief's decision to do what is necessary to protect our soldiers in harm's way. And I will continue to do so. …Whether Ahmadinejad ordered the Quds force to do this, I don't think we know. But we do know that they're there, and I intend to do something about it. And I've asked our commanders to do something about it. And we're going to protect our troops.…I don't think we know who picked up the phone and said to the Quds force, go do this, but we know it's a vital part of the Iranian government. …What matters is, is that we're responding. The idea that somehow we're manufacturing the idea that the Iranians are providing IEDs is preposterous...My job is to protect our troops. And when we find devices that are in that country that are hurting our troops, we're going to do something about it, pure and simple. …does this mean you're trying to have a pretext for war? No. It means I'm trying to protect our troops.”


en.wikipedia.org...

I came across this from Bush in February 2007. That Time article is from July of the same year. Just so you get an idea of what I'm looking into.

[edit on 8-2-2010 by jackflap]



posted on Feb, 8 2010 @ 11:43 PM
link   
reply to post by jackflap
 




Thanks for bringing that one up, because it is still a mystery. With the story in the thread, I too am having a hard time figuring out who they were, who sent them, and why?




If you could help me here. Right before this incident, do you remember a truck load of Iranian special forces being blown up by a roadside bomb? I seem to recall the story but I cannot find it in the news archives.




On January 11, 2007, US forces raided and detained five employees of the Iranian liaison office in Irbil, Iraq. The US military says the five detainees are connected to the Quds Force. The operation has drawn protests from the regional Kurdish government while the Russian government called the detainments unacceptable.

Alireza Nourizadeh, a political analyst of Voice of America, states that their arrests are causing concern in Iranian intelligence because the five alleged officials are knowledgeable of a wide range of Quds Force and Iranian activities in Iraq. According to American ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad, one of the men in custody is Quds Force's director of operations.

Iranian and Iraqi officials have maintained the detained men were part of a diplomatic mission in the city of Arbil, Iraq. The five Iranian detainees are still being held at a U.S. prison in Iraq as of July 8, 2007.

en.wikipedia.org...

Maybe, the attack highlighted in the thread was a retaliatory measure as response to to this raid and the detainment of Iranian officials? Still, I am having a hard time buying the idea that this attack was planned and orchestrated by the Qud's Force.

It seems pretty ornate with a man heading the operation who was allegedly American appearance, US identification cards, and well-spoken English. Then the use official government vehicles. Plus, US issued gear and weapons. From what I have read about the Quds force, they are very good at what they do, but how could they procure all that US equipment without someone taking notice. It doesn't make sense.

Here is a pretty good time line of alleged Iranian meddling during the Iraq War.

www.verumserum.com...



If you do look into the archives from that time period, there are a lot of accusations about Iran producing roadside bombs for the insurgency in Iraq. There are also a lot of other head lines about Iranian weaponry being recovered from insurgents. I believe the following idea is what I am more inclined to believe.

To get back at the Iranians, we blew up a truck load of their special forces guys with the help of a local dissident group. I cannot even remember the name of the dissident group but I know there is one. Like I said, I couldn't find anything in the archives.


Maybe, you are thinking of that recent attack on the Revolutionary Guard in Iran by the alleged US backed group, Jundallah? I haven't found anything about a US backed dissident group blowing up a truck filled with Iranian special forces before the attack highlighted in the thread.



With this, Iran ran an operation against us. They probably used a corporate soldier for hire company. Anyone can buy there services and some of them are highly skilled. Executive Outcomes comes to mind.


Perhaps, the entire raiding force was corporate soldiers? They didn't raise any suspicions among the Iraqi Guards.



When asked why Iraqi police did not intervene to stop the gunmen from fleeing, al-Mishawi said "they assumed it was American-on-American violence and wanted to stay out of it."

www.cnn.com...



I do like Protoplasmic's theory and it may be the reason they were targeted. I am going to keep checking for that story though. Awesome work here my friend! S+F.


Yes, Protoplasmic's theory is quite interesting. I am kind of curious why a site steeped in Iraqi history and heritage, like the antiquities museum, was left unguarded as the US force took control of Baghdad in 2003? Who knows what priceless artifacts were destroyed or vanished as result of the looting.

[edit on 9-2-2010 by Jakes51]



posted on Feb, 9 2010 @ 07:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by Jakes51
I am not to familiar on your last statements. If you have any sources I would love to see them. Perhaps those things happened, but I am unaware at this time.


It's pretty hard to find such info as MSM doesn't like to report it, anyhow here it is:

Iran's help in rebuilding Afghanistan:
Here is the main link of James Dobbin's Testimony presented before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Subcommittee on National Security and Foreign Affairs on November 7, 2007.
www.rand.org...

Other related articles:
www.antiwar.com...
www.csmonitor.com...
www.guardian.co.uk...

US Support of MKO/ Jundullah:
Two different detailed reports:
1. AUSTRALIA RRT RESEARCH RESPONSE - www.mrt-rrt.gov.au...
2. www.negaheno.net...
Other related articles:
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.atimes.com...
www.globalsecurity.org...
www.niacouncil.org...
www.globalresearch.ca...
iran-interlink.org... (with pictures)



They can't be ignored, but will Obama seek their assistance in stabilizing Iraq? At the rate things are going that may never be, because it seems war is on the horizon. Thanks for the reply!
[edit on 8-2-2010 by Jakes51]


I don't think Iran will be included in talks coz' it would actually help solve the problems. Secondly, Israel won't allow US/UK to talk with Iran.



posted on Feb, 9 2010 @ 10:45 AM
link   
reply to post by December_Rain
 


Thanks for the sources, friend. It looks like I have some reading to catch up on. About a coordinated effort from Iran and the US in further reconstruction of Iraq? Personally, I don't see it happening, especially, with all the incendiary rhetoric each side has for the other. I know sometime ago, the idea of Iran having an integral role in Iraq reconstruction along with the Coalition was kicked around, but idea never gained any traction as suspicions of Iranian meddling arose. Now, it looks like tensions are at all time high as it was when President Bush was in office.




[edit on 9-2-2010 by Jakes51]



posted on Feb, 9 2010 @ 03:32 PM
link   
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Very interesting theory, and as hazy as the Iraq War is; anything is possible. It was appalling watching those looters go about unabridged as they desecrated Iraqi history and heritage. One would figure that soldiers would have been given orders to secure a site of such cultural importance? This site is not only important to Iraqis, but civilization as a whole. You are correct and little area between the Tigris and Euphrates was where it all began. Who knows what priceless artifacts were destroyed or fenced on the black market to be lost to society forever? Again, very insulting for something like that to go on without intervention. I look at it as very similar to when the Taliban dynamited those Buddha statues carved into the side of that mountain.

Well, back to your theory. I think it is possible one or more of that unit were privy to something they were not supposed to see. Was it fraud, corruption, or even heinous acts by the combat force in country? It is possible and it went on in Vietnam. Soldiers would frag others when they spoke out against a crime or injustice by their fellow comrades. So, crimes go on within the military as they do in the civilian world.

I am finding the general consensus from others thus far, as it being an attack of Iranian origin. Still, I wouldn't put past our own government to pull off such an attack to fuel the tensions about Iran and to further rally the citizens for a strike. According to, New Yorker reporter, Seymour Hersh, former Vice President Cheney was up to some diabolical things while in office concerning the ever elusive strike on Iran, here is what Hersh uncovered:



. . . during the meeting in Cheney’s office, an idea was considered to dress up Navy Seals as Iranians, put them on fake Iranian speedboats, and shoot at them. This idea, intended to provoke an Iran war, was ultimately rejected:

HERSH: There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war. The one that interested me the most was why don’t we build — we in our shipyard — build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up.

Might cost some lives. And it was rejected because you can’t have Americans killing Americans. That’s the kind of — that’s the level of stuff we’re talking about. Provocation. But that was rejected.

thinkprogress.org...
www.newyorker.com...


With all the information above, perhaps, my assumptions about whom these guys really were holds a little water. We had some nefarious characters in officer during the last administration, and I am quite sure some of the holdovers still have access to power under the current administration. So, maybe these guys were US special forces made to look like members of the Quds Force?



[edit on 9-2-2010 by Jakes51]



posted on Feb, 9 2010 @ 07:01 PM
link   
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Yes, it looks like it could have been a false flag operation. Something just doesn’t seem right about it. Now, among some of the other posters, they think it is a retaliatory attack by Iranian Special Forces, Al Quds Force, an arm of the Revolutionary Guard. It is possible, because at the time of the raid it was alleged that Iranian forces were fighting a proxy war with Coalition Forces.



On January 11, 2007, US forces raided and detained five employees of the Iranian liaison office in Irbil, Iraq. The US military says the five detainees are connected to the Quds Force. The operation has drawn protests from the regional Kurdish government while the Russian government called the detainments unacceptable.

en.wikipedia.org...

Given the date of the incident in question, it appears that the attack may have been retaliation by Iranian Forces for the raid and detainment of their employees by Coalition Forces on January 11 and the raid took place on January 20th. So, it would appear that the abduction and the murder of those US Forces in Karbala were a retaliatory measure. Perhaps, the abduction was a way of telling the US Forces in the region, “You can get at us, but we can also get at you.”

However, I am still partial to it being a false flag. This force had invaluable intelligence on this compound and something only the US military would have known. Then they had US weaponry, vehicles, identification, and spoke well-spoken English. Now, it said the Iraqi Forces manned the check points, and at that time Iraq was in turmoil. So, if these shadowy individuals were indeed the Quds Force, they would have been spotted as suspect. Then the leader of this group according to one of the Iraqi witnesses allegedly had blond hair. The deception threw-off the Iraqi Security, and thus allowing the group through.



When asked why Iraqi police did not intervene to stop the gunmen from fleeing, al-Mishawi said "they assumed it was American-on-American violence and wanted to stay out of it."

www.cnn.com...

As the melee ensued, they thought Americans were disputing amongst themselves and refrained from getting involved. So, apparently these raiders knew how to keep the Iraqis out of the fight, thus, making access to the compound. Now, this is the real sinker, now some would probably think it was an inside-job by the Iraqi Shia who has a relationship with Iran, but I am not so sure?



The Americans interviewed by TIME say at least some Iraqi police at the center were involved, and the conclusions of the military investigation support that view. But neither U.S. nor Iraqi authorities have brought charges against any Iraqi police present at the time of the ambush.


www.time.com...

The last sentence mentions that know charges have been filed against Iraqi police or officials, by either the Iraqi or US governments. So, this attack may be handed down by someone very high on the totem pole. Tensions were very high against Iran by the Bush Administration and they were practically looking for anything to justify a military encounter with the Islamic Republic. Now, considering the shady history of the prior administration, it is not much of a stretch for them to pull off something like this. Seymour Hersh, of the New Yorker, apparently uncovered evidence of the past administration resorting to false-flag tactics to pull Iran in a full-scale military conflict.



. . . during the meeting in Cheney’s office, an idea was considered to dress up Navy Seals as Iranians, put them on fake Iranian speedboats, and shoot at them. This idea, intended to provoke an Iran war, was ultimately rejected:

HERSH: There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war. The one that interested me the most was why don’t we build — we in our shipyard — build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy Seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up.

Might cost some lives. And it was rejected because you can’t have Americans killing Americans. That’s the kind of — that’s the level of stuff we’re talking about. Provocation. But that was rejected.

thinkprogress.org...

So, apparently all options where on the table to provoke Iran into confrontation. The nuclear issue was the stickler for them as it is for the current administration. Could these mystery men as I will call them be from special forces and used in a way to make it appear that the Quds Force was involved? To support Bush’s claims that the Qud’s were giving weapons, bomb material(IED’s), and support to the Iraqi insurgency, thus giving further justification for possible sanctions or military conflict with Iran? There are a lot of loose ends on this one, and sadly we may never know the true facts. It doesn’t hurt to keep theorizing until something tangible is uncovered.



posted on Feb, 9 2010 @ 07:10 PM
link   
reply to post by Jakes51
 



The Jundallah took responsibility for the bombing of a busload of Revolutionary Guard soldiers in February, 2007. At least eleven Guard members were killed. According to Baer and to press reports, the Jundallah is among the groups in Iran that are benefitting from U.S. support. The C.I.A. and Special Operations communities also have long-standing ties to two other dissident groups in Iran: the Mujahideen-e-Khalq, known in the West as the M.E.K., and a Kurdish separatist group, the Party for a Free Life in Kurdistan, or PJAK.


www.newyorker.com...

Thanks for the U2U Jakes! I don't know how you found that article but this was the incident I was referring to. It says that the attack took place in February so it is possible that the Iranians took revenge. I'm not saying that is what happened, but it is a possibility.



posted on Feb, 12 2010 @ 11:05 PM
link   
reply to post by jackflap
 


I only found the reference for the story you mentioned, by looking up Seymour Hersh. Then as I read the New Yorker article, I came upon the text that read similar to what your mentioned earlier about a busload of Revolutionary Guard soldiers being blown-up. Before that, I tried typing what you mentioned into Google and nothing came up as it did for you.

So, it was only by chance that I found it in the first place. Either way thanks for the contribution and it only makes this mystery even more strange. You may be correct, and this was just another incident that would spurn retribution later on, if indeed; this attack was retaliation by Iranians?



posted on Feb, 15 2010 @ 02:11 PM
link   
Excellent thread Jake
I do not have much to add, but this is some AMAZING research and what an amazing case. I am not quite sure what to make of it. It seems that their are so many possibilities that it would be difficult to postulate which one is more probable. Was it contractors? A False Flag? Rebels? Was there a secret? An dif so what was teh secret- gold, billions of dollars, drugs? I do not know. But what I do know is that whoever did this, did this with a mission and a goal in mind. This was well too executed and to well prepared for. Makes me wonder who the puppet master was and was he/she the only one behind the curtain?

[edit on Feb 15th 2010 by TheMythLives]



posted on Feb, 15 2010 @ 04:08 PM
link   
reply to post by TheMythLives
 


I am in the same boat as you, and I have a hard time coming to any definitive conclusions about what happened that winter night in Karbala? However, with all the controversy surrounding the Iraq War I suppose anything is possible. The raid has all the techniques used by our own special forces. I find it hard to believing a group of insurgent fundamentalists being able to pull that if with such grace and orchestration. They would just drive the checkpoint and detonate themselves hoping to meet a target.

I just remember reading about it years ago, and I thought I had to put this one on ATS. Up until today it has been at the back of my mind. Still, the case seems open ended to me, even though, military sources claim they caught people with ties to Iran. It is a conspiracy theorists dream, it has all the hallmarks of a black op, false-flag, or a proxy assault by a foreign power. Thanks for the reply and keep up the good work!


[edit on 15-2-2010 by Jakes51]



new topics

top topics



 
6
<<   2 >>

log in

join