Norway Spiral : Case reopened - the analysis of an event (Part 2)

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
But, as I said before...because you lack any mathematical skills where you can demonstrate and illuminate these "supposed" fundamental flaws, your opinion of whether it is valid or not is NULL AND VOID. As a matter of fact, I have yet to see you post any evidence on your behalf whatsoever...
Here's where you admitted no mathematical skills.....

As a guy with advanced mathematical skills as validated by graduate degrees, I can't judge your opponent's 'skills', but his 'mathematical intuition' [a key factor in the best theoretical mathematics] seems excellent to me. "Maths" is what we say too -- if you think it's 'childish' or a misnomer, it's you who's being exposed, not him.

When you too can raise 'e' to the '2 pi i' power and get a real number,
maybe people will learn some respect for your own claimed maths talents.

Sorry Jim, I don't have time for a groundless and useless debate about whether you're spelling the word math or mathematics incorrectly. That was one element within my post to Photon that illuminated his ability or non ability to define any problems that he sees with the mathematics in my link.

I will say this though...if you want to sound like your education went past the third grade, you will spell math as such, or mathematic(s) if you want to make it plural. I don't care where you are from, ENGLISH is quite Universal.

Third, Photon has been repeatedly asked to prove his ability to define the mathematics in my link so that he can have some credibility to say whether the link is correct or incorrect. Point blank. He has no ability to translate it, therefore, he has no ability to speak as to whether the link is viable. So far, I've seen no proof from Photon that claims that he is qualified to make that assessment, and according to his own words, he has no math experience or capabilities. Therefore, his opinion is NULL AND VOID. Its pretty cut and dry. Defend him if you like, but, it just puts you onto a ship that is sinking slowly.

And, here again is Photon's admission that he has no mathematical capabilities to disprove the presented information in my link.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
This tells everything that needs to be told about his stance on the mathematics that has been presented to him concerning the impossibility of the spiral being created by a missile.

If you would like to pick up where he left off, then by all mean...DO. But don't just be another Photon who argues with conjecture rather than analysis.

Now, if you want to play the Math game with me...Lets have at it. Send me a U2U and we can go round and round. I have a few math problems and solutions that I would love to present to you to see if you can define them and create solutions. Then I'll give you solutions that you have to create a problem for. But, don't be mad if I post the results for everyone to view as proof that I am arguing with groundless opinion and conjecture.

Finally, if you would like to argue this further, then I again suggest you do it via U2U because this is the last time that I will address you on this matter on this thread. I'm staying on topic and I suggest that you do the same.


[edit on 10-2-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

Originally posted by JimOberg
As a guy with advanced mathematical skills as validated by graduate degrees, I can't judge your opponent's 'skills', but his 'mathematical intuition' [a key factor in the best theoretical mathematics] seems excellent to me. "Maths" is what we say too -- if you think it's 'childish' or a misnomer, it's you who's being exposed, not him.

When you too can raise 'e' to the '2 pi i' power and get a real number,
maybe people will learn some respect for your own claimed maths talents.

Do you mean Euler's Identity? That's e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0.

So??? (e^(i*pi))^2 = (-1)^2 = 1 ???

Or was that your point? Prove that crazy equation equals "1"? It wasn't very challenging.

I don't have a Master's degree. Nor an undergrad in mathematics. I must be magical.

reply to post by davesidious


Which part was out there for you?

Was it the part about advanced Nazi technology that started in WWII and then was further developed off the planet, and the fact they are blackmailing the Superpowers and forcing their hands against each other?

The day of Obama's noble peace prize - Norway spiral and Pyramid over Red Square. A message no?

Far fetched, hard to imagine - but what - the what ifs.

Interesting to say the least - have you seen Hoagland's Mars work, that again showed an almost perfect tidal model. Which since the rovers has been almost proven accurate.

Hoagland - "Nobel Torsion Message"

"... after the Second World War, scientists started to explore radio wave heating techniques for modifying ionospheric conditions. The first megawatt-range heating facilities were built in the 1970s (Platteville, Colorado, USA and SURA, Novgorod, USSR). Especially the usage of a periodically heated ionosphere as a large-scale an tenna for electromagnetic wave generation at low frequencies was studied extensively. In the USA as well as the former USSR, this research was motivated by the military requirement to communicate with deeply submerged submarines, although in practise, the capability of heating facilities for this purpose turned out to be insufficient [Barr, 1998]. However, scientific usage of active heating techniques expanded to various fields, some of them introduced in Section 1.2. New facilities were built for these purposes in the 1980s (Arecibo, Puerto Rico, USA; Troms¿, Norway; HIPAS, Alaska, USA) and most recently HAARP in Alaska, USA (1995) and SPEAR in Svalbard (2003) ...."

Given the obvious proximity of Norway to this "Torsion Weapons Message" -- both in terms of location and in time -- and thus to President Obama's controversial, imminent Nobel Peace Prize acceptance appearance in Oslo -- one of our earliest suspicions was that "the Message" was aimed squarely at--

The President of the United States ... and, thereby, at some policy position(s) of this President ....

Now, of course, we know that Medvedev and Putin were ALSO targeted (it was a Russian missile, after all, that was so dramatically "grabbed" ...) -- which immediately poses the really crucial question--

Why?!--

What could be the ultimate purpose of such a "double-whammy, highly public torsion demonstration" ... and to the leaders of the two militarily most powerful nations on the planet ..!?

The answer to that question, unfortunately, depends totally on the answer to this question:

"Who?"--

Who -- ultimately -- would benefit, from deterring some joint (either current or planned ...) US/Russian action?

Who have now -- in these astonishing apparitions -- publicly taken on BOTH reigning "superpowers" ... here on Planet Earth!?

Again, for those even slightly familiar with the "arc" of our Enterprise investigations over the past 20 or so years, and especially, for those who have read our "magnum opus" on the "radically distorted origins and inside politics" of NASA -- Dark Mission -- it should come as no surprise that our own first thoughts regarding the ultimate "creators" of this obviously "Tetrahedral Warning" was--

The Secret Space Program!

An "over a half-century-long Program" ... completely hidden from all public view ... the REAL Space Program ... based not on "primitive and dangerous space technologies, like rockets ..." -- but on deep-black, cutting-edge, Nazi-WWII-developed HD/torsion technologies--

The development of which has been well-documented in Dark Mission ... and by another Enterprise Associate -- Oxford's Dr. Joseph Farrell.

Apart from being highly relevant to the "Norway situation" (see below), Joseph's unique historical research, serendipitously, now also sheds stunning new light on the real explanation for the long-reigning "UFO distraction" of our time--

Roswell.

Farrell's paradigm-busting research -- based on both newly-declassified WWII Nazi documents, as well as a crucial new perspective on the evidence contained in the various Roswell "eyewitness testimonies," chronicled by other researchers over the years -- is that "Roswell" now, in all probability, represents the deliberate PR distorsion of a much more amazing reality--

An entire, hidden, herculian, top-secret, post-WWII torsion research and development program ..."--

Deliberately "smuggled" into the United States at the end of the War.

A program to initially "back-engineer early Nazi-developed WWII torsion technologies and weapons systems ..." -- and then make them operational.

Think of it what you will - but there is a message here to be looked at. No?

"Nobel Torsion Message"

[edit on 10-2-2010 by arizonascott]

reply to post by Protector

Excellently done Protector.

He was arguing a groundless point that didn't take long to eliminate. It was a deflection scheme to protect his boy Photon.

You got a star from me for sure.

reply to post by arizonascott


Just stick to evidence. Oh, wait, you don't have any. Just guesswork.

reply to post by arizonascott

Yep...much of that information can be found, or at least noted, from Project Paperclip. Project Paperclip is no longer conjecture, it is a widely known and accepted point of history during which the United States obtained several members of the S.S. and Nazi Scientists, to help develop and improve several programs including NASA.

Ironically, right after we obtained these "scientists," we developed the National Security Act of 1947 to protect much of the information that we outright STOLE from the Nazis.

So, it would not surprise me at all if we obtained torsion weapons, electromagnetic weaponry and all sorts of other little toys from the work that the Nazi regime was experimenting with.

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


All of that has nothing to do with anything we are discussing here. Torsion weapons? You've not even demonstrated they exist, and yet you are talking as if they do.

You give conspiracy theorists a bad name, as you seem to think evidence gets in your way of a good story.

Pah-thetic.

reply to post by davesidious


Then what is the answer?

"They" give the appearance that our space program is still in the stone age and that a shuttle can barely make it off the launch pad, yet in WWII Germany was already messing with Tortion physics technology and was on anti-gravity process (Nazi Bell).

But since then, no, nothing has been discovered - and the idea tortion physics was scrapped - and lost just like Tesla's main work! Please

They were way ahead of everything we knew back then - what is so hard to believe?

We will never advance and evolve if we continue to bury our heads in the sands over obvious technology that the "DoD" has gone way way out of their way to protect, hide and create piles of dis-information over.

Project Paperclip - ever heard of it - how about MJ12

Its not that far out there - some just choose to refuse the proof, even when they trip over it.


[edit on 10-2-2010 by arizonascott]

reply to post by tauristercus


Tauresticus, I must say I'm a bit dissapointed that you didn't reply to my post were I made this point:

Are you aware that, in your previous thread you calculated the altitude of the whole spiral event to never surpass 453 kms, with the center, were the missile would be, at max 296.5 kms. The whole event takes place below the third stage level of a Bulava missile, according to your own post.

To me, this seems like a pretty important piece of evidence, why is this ignored?

I expected this to be of interest to you, maybe i was wrong.

Or did you just miss that post?

reply to post by arizonascott
Hi Ariz,


"The development of which has been well-documented in Dark Mission ... and by another Enterprise Associate -- Oxford's Dr. Joseph Farrell."

Dr Farrell has a Dr.phil from Oxford, he doesn't work there. He works for California Graduate School of Theology, a Christian based centre.

Originally posted by Point of No Return
reply to post by tauristercus

 

Tauresticus, I must say I'm a bit dissapointed that you didn't reply to my post were I made this point:

Are you aware that, in your previous thread you calculated the altitude of the whole spiral event to never surpass 453 kms, with the center, were the missile would be, at max 296.5 kms. The whole event takes place below the third stage level of a Bulava missile, according to your own post.

To me, this seems like a pretty important piece of evidence, why is this ignored?

I expected this to be of interest to you, maybe i was wrong.

Or did you just miss that post?

My guess is that it will probably continued to be ignored. As a matter of fact, that was something that I didn't see before you pointed it out. You've got good eyes and a great mind for analysis.

Not only will it go ignored by the OP (lets hope this isn't the case), but it will probably also be ignored by the "others," if you know what I mean. Its very similar to the way Photon Effect keeps ignoring my question and bypassing it with insults. If there's no answer for it, they will pretend as if it was never asked. Plus, it will destroy the entire theory of which this thread is based. Ouch.


[edit on 10-2-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


Thanks.

It's amazing that noone else even wants to acknowledge this finding.

I guess one can try to ignore something and hope it will go away.

It just starts to look bad when people keep ignoring valid points.

Originally posted by Point of No Return
reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

 

Thanks.

It's amazing that noone else even wants to acknowledge this finding.

I guess one can try to ignore something and hope it will go away.

It just starts to look bad when people keep ignoring valid points.

Yep...that's what I've been saying all along. That's the reason why its hard to take any of these posters who argue with no relevance seriously. They constantly ignore facts, they argue with opinion, and nothing gets accomplished.

You've personally witnessed how many times I have addressed the missile issue to Photon, Phage and the others only to be insulted, berated, and ultimately ignored. Facts are facts and everyone wants to argue an opinion, but, no one has any research to back them up. And, when they are presented facts, its almost like an insult to them. So, I just keep presenting my facts with hopes that someone either benefits from them, or can prove them wrong.

So far, no good.

Keep trying though, because if you're able to consistently bring your point up without a response, it only looks better on your end and worse on theirs.

[edit on 10-2-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

Tauristicus was probably in error when talking about the flight profile of the missile. The entire boost phase of a ballistic missile lasts from 3-5 minutes and occurs at altitudes up to a few hundred kilometers. After that (the mid-course phase) the warhead coasts to its apogee.

As a comparison, the third stage of the LGM-118A Peacekeeper (medium range) ignites at an altitude of about 60km.

The 28-foot first-stage solid-fuel rocket motor weighed approximately 108,000 pounds and is capable of boosting the missile to about 75,000 feet. The 18-foot long second-stage motor propelled the missile to an altitude of about 190,000 feet and weighed 60,000 pounds. The rocket motor in the eight-foot third stage weighed 17,000 pounds and supplied the thrust to boost the missile to about 700,000 feet. The 2,300 pound post-boost fourth stage vehicle was designed to maneuver the missile into position for the multiple reentry vehicles to deploy in their respective ballistic trajectories.

www.fas.org...

Here's a description of a Minuteman III launch.

The ICBM gained speed. Within a minute, the rocket had accelerated to nearly 5,000 mph and reached an altitude of 100,000 feet.

Another flash of light marked the sky as the rocket’s second stage ignited and the first was jettisoned. The spent first stage fell earthward, its red-hot tail tumbling end over end.

Two minutes into the flight, GT-198 was traveling more than 10,000 mph. It had reached an altitude of 350,000 feet and was 120 miles downrange, but was still clearly visible in the night sky.

As the third stage ignited and the second fell toward Earth, the rocket roared toward its top speed of nearly 15,000 mph. At 750,000 feet, a platform holding the dummy warhead was in low orbit.

www.airforcetimes.com...

[edit on 2/10/2010 by Phage]

Originally posted by Point of No Return
reply to post by tauristercus

 

Tauresticus, I must say I'm a bit dissapointed that you didn't reply to my post were I made this point:

Are you aware that, in your previous thread you calculated the altitude of the whole spiral event to never surpass 453 kms, with the center, were the missile would be, at max 296.5 kms. The whole event takes place below the third stage level of a Bulava missile, according to your own post.

To me, this seems like a pretty important piece of evidence, why is this ignored?

I expected this to be of interest to you, maybe i was wrong.

Or did you just miss that post?

You have asked a valid question, Point of No Return and the only reason I didn't answer it when you 1st asked is purely and simply because I didn't see your post ... I try to keep up but occasionally one slips by ... so my apologies.

Yes, you're right that as far as the altitude that the 3rd stage of a Bulava kicks in, I have published apparently contradictory values. That wasn't done intentionally but based on the evidence that I had in my possession AT THE TIME that I made those posts.

You see, in my very 1st thread that I posted within days of the Norway event, there was yet very little by way of evidence available ... basically some eye-witness testimony and a couple of photos allegedly taken at Tromso which later on were discovered to have actually been taken instead at Skjervoy, approximately 88 kms north of Tromso.

When I created that 1st thread, I had to search around to try and locate some info on just how high a Bulava could go and the only instance I found stated that a Bulava has an apogee (max altitude) of 1000 kms.
Now because that was all we were told, and because there were 3 stages involved, I decided to use an approximation that the combined first 2 stages pushed the Bulava up to around 2/3rds of the apogee (500 to 600 kms) and the final stage pushed it the remaining distance ... hence my initial estimate that the 3rd stage would fire up somewhere above the 500 km mark.

But when much more photographic evidence began to be made publically available, it didn't take long for me to realise that my analysis and conclusions in that original thread linking Norway and EISCAT to the event were completely and totally innacurate ... and as mentioned, primarily because the source location attributed to the original photos that I used had turned out to be incorrect ... again, through no fault of my own ... I simply used what was THEN available.
So that original thread and my deductions linking Norway and EISCAT to the event was just plain wrong ... wrong ... wrong ... and I acknowledged clearly and openly as much in the opening post of my new thread "Norway Spiral : Case reopened - an analysis of an event".
With the wealth of much more photographic evidence having been made available since that original thread, I basically decided that the best policy from my point of view would be to literally throw away and discard all the previous potentially inaccurate data that I had used and go back to the drawing board and re-analyze the event completely anew using these newly available data sources.

Consequently, the recent conclusions that I have published regarding the location and trajectory of the event are to the best of my knowledge and research, about as accurate as I can make them.
Having shown to my satisfaction that the physical dimensions/properties of the various spiral phases seem to have been located around the 120 to 450 km altitude band, I have to accept the fact that until someone can post accurate performance specs on the Bulava, that I simply have to say that I no longer can state with any certainty at what altitude the 3rd stage kicks in.

reply to post by tauristercus


OK Yes, I see now what you did, Thanks tauristercus.

Well my friend, the result of your research is not new.My interpretation of Crop Circles 2009 is that ETs activated from July to August 2009 an Earth Protective Shield to help prevent a major disasters on Earth when Nibiru approaches to inner Solar System Planets.This approach is going to increase Sun activity producing many CMEs and many asteroids out of its orbit are going to crash against inner planets. This is already happened: up to day, 18 asteroid had crash against the EPS avoiding collision with Earth: Ontario,Canada sept 25, Mendoza,Argentina 27 sept, Ireland Oct 1, Indonesia oct 8, Netherlands oct 15 2009, Salt Lake city,utah nov 18, Johannesburgh,south africa nov 21, South of England Dec 3, North of Germany Dec 8, Auburn,Nebraska Dec 16, Beijing,China Dec 16, Mojave Desert,California Dec 17, Middleton,CT Dec 19, UK (Daylight), Dec 20 (!:15 pm), Uk, Dec 31 2009/Jan 2010, Montreal,Canada Jan/07 2010, Mentone, California Jan 13 /10, Baltimore,Maryland Jan 18/2010. There hasn't been any big CME yet but this part of the project goes with the hand of the activation of the Solar Filter Effect, actually under activation (you can check the pictures at STEREO Behind from Jan 18 to date).And returning to the norwegian spyral light, this was a test against the EPS but not the first one. I still dont know how to insert my youtube videos, but you can see my explanation here:
www.youtube.com...
And about the first of this test, was here in USA on 11/09/09 over Syracuse,Utah. Nobody notice this event because was at daylight but the remains of it were capture on video by my friend Mark and you can see the explanation here:
www.youtube.com...
You are guessing the speed of the object:" To cover a distance of 108 kms in 10 seconds gives us an equivalent speed of 38,800 kms per hour !! "
That is true. Any of the meteorite that crashed against the EPS had that speed and more.

By the way, maybe any of you can explain me how to insert youtube videos because I tried everything and can not do.
Tks

reply to post by tauristercus


Thanks for replying.

So that original thread and my deductions linking Norway and EISCAT to the event was just plain wrong ... wrong ... wrong ... and I acknowledged clearly and openly as much in the opening post of my new thread "Norway Spiral : Case reopened - an analysis of an event". With the wealth of much more photographic evidence having been made available since that original thread, I basically decided that the best policy from my point of view would be to literally throw away and discard all the previous potentially inaccurate data that I had used and go back to the drawing board and re-analyze the event completely anew using these newly available data sources.

Yes I know, but the info in the qoute below, seems independant info, not effected by any mistakes made in that thread.

When I created that 1st thread, I had to search around to try and locate some info on just how high a Bulava could go and the only instance I found stated that a Bulava has an apogee (max altitude) of 1000 kms. Now because that was all we were told, and because there were 3 stages involved, I decided to use an approximation that the combined first 2 stages pushed the Bulava up to around 2/3rds of the apogee (500 to 600 kms) and the final stage pushed it the remaining distance ... hence my initial estimate that the 3rd stage would fire up somewhere above the 500 km mark.

So does the 1000 km max altitude still stand?

Where did you get that info if I may ask, and do you still have a source?

After a google search I found this:

www.astronautix.com...

Submarine-launched ballistic missile area known to have been used for 27 launches from 1955 to 2007, reaching up to 1000 kilometers altitude.

2007 June 28 - Launch Vehicle: Bulava. Bulava SLBM test Agency: VMF. Apogee: 1,000 km (600 mi). The warhead impacted on target in the Kamchatka Peninsula. This was the first successful launch after two consecutive failures.

So 1,000 km apogee it seems.

Your calculations put the lowest part of the event at 119 kms, with the center at 211 kms.

So the Bulava goes into third stage, possibly as low as 119 kms, leaving the 2m long third stage to fly the remaining 800 kms?

I understand more fuel is needed for the first stages, but this seems a bit out of proportion to me.

Yet another norway spiral topic... and all of it based on assumptions.
There already has been posted the single most likely explanation for the, apparently, unfathomable event.

Let me point you towards the search button then, TEQUILASunrise.