Why Are There So Many Posts About muslims Murdering People?

Now before the muslim apologists begin their rant, I have only quoted the quran, and at the end of my OP, render my opinion of when this will all stop.
The Koran says that non-Muslims are against Allah (25:55). Non-Muslims, according to the Koran, are not considered innocent civilians. They are "guilty" of disbelief (45:31, 83:29) - the worst crime. The Kafir (non-believers), are on the side of the Satan and are fighting for him (4:76-77); hypocrites (4:61); "unclean" (9:28), evil" (16:27, 2:91, 2:99); the "wrong-doers" (2:254, 5:45); the "enemy", "perverted" (63:4); and "wicked" (80:42, 9:125). The quran may not even consider kafirs to be completely human. It claims that the non-believers are "miscreants" (2:99, 24:55); "the worst beasts in Allah's sight" (8:55), "apes" and/or "pigs" (2:65-66, 5:58-60, 7:166), and are the "worst of created beings" (98:6). Koran verse 60:4 states that followers of Allah will hate the disbelievers forever, unless the disbelievers come to believe in Allah only.
Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
Qur'an (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
Qur'an (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Qur'an (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Qur'an (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".
Qur'an (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."
Qur'an (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"
Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
Qur'an (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

The people who believe in the quran have been at war with the kafir since the beginning.
They will NEVER stop.
Violater1 out.

What? Some may say these are the only "Hate Crime Verses?"
OK, here are more.
Qur'an (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."
Qur'an (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them
Qur'an (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."
Qur'an (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"
Qur'an (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."
Qur'an (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."
Qur'an (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
Qur'an (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."
Qur'an (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."
Qur'an (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"
Whew, that's a lot hate going on there.

[edit on 7-2-2010 by Violater1]

[edit on 7-2-2010 by Violater1]

Now make it objective , do the bible.

Unless you just want to promote hate.

Originally posted by Sean48


Now make it objective , do the bible.

Unless you just want to promote hate.

No promoting hate here sir, just quoting the koran.
Why do you think the muslims have been attacking people for thousands of years.
Please state your references.
Violater1 out.

Because they commit so many? Yup, you opened a can of worms....the apologists will be here for you shortly.
However , the more I look at it, the more it seems like organized crime, rather than a religion. Lets see, a few nutjobs in power, who control through fear of violent reprisals, cowardly attacks on those who think differently or oppose them....yup all stuff that could be prosecuted under the RICO act.
I keep hearing about the religion of peace, yet the actions of their leaders, the inaction of the moderate members, as well as their "religious" texts, all point to the falseness of this claim. If the moderate muslims are to afraid to retake their "religion", that speaks volumes, and maybe they should investigate another religion. Until they can join this century and act as civilized citizens of the world, why shouldn't others be at the least wary of them.
Before the Christian bashing starts........I'm not Christian so think of another avenue to flame me with. Yes people from all religions commit terrible acts........just not in the name of their religion with the frequency that muslims do. Cowardly acts such as honor killings, blowing up children, you know, the ones the brave muslims commit, are in a far different league, than say shooting an abortion doctor.......
I guess i've reached the same conclusion as you.......it's not gonna end, until they clean up their own mess.

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)


You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)


Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
and finally this verse gives reason for the crusades.

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

These are from the Bible.


Only when we realize that all organized religions are equally insane will we be able to move on as a species. Until then, divisiveness will corrupt the minds of the weak, as evidenced by the creation of this thread.

[edit on 7-2-2010 by drwizardphd]

reply to post by drwizardphd


How many Christians follow these texts vs. the number of muslims? Apples to oranges. When muslims are afraid to take back their own religion that has been taken over by radicals.......you have a problem. If it truely is the religion of peace, why do it's more moderate members not stand up? Because they fear the very real threat of physical violence or death from it's own peoples. The same can't be said for Christians.

[edit on 7-2-2010 by adifferentbreed]

Gee, I don't know, maybe it has to do with what they are teaching their children.



"Bombs are more precious than children"
..as this video points out.




..and look at these little bastards that preparing to come after your children.

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
reply to post by drwizardphd

 

HYow many Christians follow these texts vs. the number of muslims? Apples to oranges.

Christian Terrorism

Apples to apples, my friend.

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)


You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)


Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
and finally this verse gives reason for the crusades.

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

These are from the Christian Bible.


Only when we realize that all organized religions are equally insane will we be able to move on as a species. Until then, divisiveness will corrupt the minds of the weak, as evidenced by the creation of this thread.

These are all quotes from the OLD Testament.
Our G_D Jesus Christ died for our sins and a NEW Covenant was proclaimed by G_D. Read the New Testament and you might understand.
Yes, The New Testament does spell out what will happen TO You, but it does not promote slaughtering innocent people, chopping of arms and legs.

reply to post by drwizardphd


And are they following the bible, or twisting it to fit their agenda......I said evil happens in all religions........however, muslims take it to new heights, not just fringe groups like mentioned from your wiki article(not much stock in wiki, sorry).

reply to post by Violater1

Yes the Koran seems awful in parts and that was the Jesuit intent. To incite.

Why don't you now do a report on what is in the Talmud? Pretty sick stuff in there. This is what the ones who rule the world study. The false Jews the AshkeNAZIs. Like the Koran written well after the time of true messiah , Christ

Why are there so many posts about Muslims murdering people?

Because there ARE so many Muslims murdering people!

reply to post by Alxandro

Agreed.
Here are more venom quotes from the quran the brainwash their children into becoming Soldiers or Alah.

Qur'an (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."
Qur'an (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them"
Qur'an (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination."
Qur'an (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."
Qur'an (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."
Qur'an (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
Qur'an (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"
Qur'an (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Qur'an)."
Qur'an (47:4) - "So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,"
Qur'an (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"
Qur'an (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom."
Qur'an (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"

They will NEVER stop!

To counter negative aspects of one religion is to bring up the flaws of another? "but Christians this and that" counter arguments get boring after a while you know. Sounds like a convenient cop-out.

reply to post by Violater1


So I dare ask;
Q: How do we fight an enemy that is always ready and willing to die for their cause?

A: Accommodate them!

I find it fairly suspicious and (after I checked them up for myself,) hugely hilarious how you are picking and choosing your verses, and in some cases quoting one verse, skipping the next, then quoting the one after that.

I'd fill you in, but it is getting late here. I'll post my post tomorrow. Meantime, you might want to check up on all those quotes .

Violater 1, adifferenthbreed


You are both a cut of the same cloth. You share the same hatred
and spew the same poison. Its called fundamentalist extremeism.
Ever heard of the Crusades? You both corrupt your religion to fit
your own agenda. You cherry pick from the Koran and the Bible
whatever might fit your personal grudge and ignore the rest.

Why is citing the differences prefered to citing what is held
in common? I guess it gets better press.

I'm wide awake now, so I decided to tackle this thread.

Hey, Violater! I'll go through your quotes bit by bit, to explain what I meant earlier, but first I just wanted to set something clear.

In the verses referenced, it appears that "kafir" is repeatedly translated as "unbeliever" or "non-muslim", when this isn't really true. While in some verses the Quran DOES refer to some group of non-muslims at that time as kafir, and gives examples of some non-muslims who would be kafir, it also refers to some muslims as kafir. The basic meaning (with regards to islam) is someone who covers up the truth, or hides the truth, or rejects the truth. Even with regards to Islam, it isn't specific to any religion or lack of religion.

Examples of words used for non-muslims in the quran would be "mushrikeen" (idolaters) or "ahl al-kitab" (people of the book), etc. It is made fairly clear that just because a person is a non-muslim, it doesn't mean they are a kafir (verse 2:105 for example clearly differentiates between them).

Also, just for the sake of knowledge, "kufr", or even not believing in Allah isn't the biggest sin. The biggest sin is "shirk", to knowingly bring up something to the level of God, in that it would become something in partnership to God.

Okay, so it is claim that non-muslims are not innocent civilians, based on verses 45:31 and 83:29. The problem is, verses 45:31 and 83:29 are talking about the Day of Judgement, talking about those who rejected the Signs of God (yes, in this case they are referred to as "kafir"). It is something of a stretch to say then that these people were or were not innocent civilians- it is like saying "According to this book, this vegetable tastes bad", when the book is actually just saying "This vegetable is green".

Since terminology like "innocent civilians" is being used, I'll assume referring to a time of war. Yes, in a time of war, muslims are allowed to fight to defend themselves. Now in that case, verse 60:8 would come in handy, where it says:

God forbids you not, with regard to those who do not fight/kill you for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and equitably with them: for Allah loves those who are just.

So if someone is not going about actively warring/killing muslims, or preventing them from practising their faith, they're "innocent civilians".

Okay, now it goes through various labels that the Quran apparently places on non-muslims. Problem is, they've been a bit mixed up. For example, (and I re-iterate it here), not all mentions of "kafir" are referring to non-muslims. The meaning is generally pretty easy to pick up from the text itself.

If one reads that particular segment of Surah An-Nisa (number 4) from which the line is quoted, another example presents itself, and you'll notice that it is talking about the occasion of a battle. Verse 4:61, for example, refers to those who were only pretended to be with the muslims, and ran for it the first sign of trouble. Verse 4:76-77, however, which was quoted BEFORE 4:61, refers to those who they were fighting against. Just to explain who these were, let me quote 4:75 to explain WHY they were being fought in the first place:

And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"

Now as for the label of "unclean" this was referring to the idolators (the word used is mushrikoon). The whole verse explains that the hearts of the idolators are impure (they associate idols of stone and wood with God), thus giving the reason why they were no longer allowed in the Ka'aba.

As for "evil", if one actually reads it (I'd recommend starting at least from 16:24 to 27), they'll realise that the verse isn't saying that they ARE evil (as an adjective), it is using evil as a noun (which in this case is synonymous with "trouble" or "misery", which are the words that some of the translators have used).

And then comes the label of "wrong-doers". While Islam certainly DOES consider kafir "wrong-doers" (as would Christianity consider someone who rejects the tenets of Christianity as "wrong-doers"), the examples given aren't even referring to non-muslims!

As for the "perverted" or "enemy" label, it isn't even talking about non-muslims (definitely not as a blanket statement), it is referring to those who pretend to be muslims, then use their positions to cover up for their actions. Quoted from 64:2:

"They make their faith a pretext (for their misdeeds): thus they obstruct (men) from the Path of God: Miserable indeed is what they do."

I'd say that counts for being 'perverted'.

bleh...you know, this is getting tiresome.
It seems the entire post, with all the verses examples, hinge on two things: the assumption that every time the word "kafir" is used, it is used as a blanket term for all non-muslims, and that in every occasion some group of people were reprimanded, it is to be used as an example of how the Quran explicitly is against all non-muslims (even if it wasn't even talking about non-muslims in that verse!).


And then we come to the "fighting" verses.

-Verses 2:191-193 are quoted, but verse 192 is skipped, and verse 190 isn't mentioned at all, which when read properly flip the entire meaning.

-Verses 2:216 and 2:244 are quoted, which talk about fighting when fighting is ordained.

-Verse 3:151 is quoted, which is narrating the events of a specific battle (pretty easy to realise that while reading the text).

-Verses 4:74 and 4:89, 4:95, 4:104 are quoted, which are all part of the same narrative that was brought up before (when verse 4:61 and then 4:76-77 were quoted earlier). It again skips the entire narrative in between, which isn't really a normal way to read a story. Even a cursory glance at 4:75, 4:90 and 4:94 again flips the whole meaning to the opposite.

-Verses 8:12 and 8:15 are quoted, but if they're read in the actual text, it will become clear that it is talking about a battle that had already occurred. 8:39, 8:57, 8:59-60 are then quoted, again with skipping all the substance in between, such as the COMPLETE 8:39 (the one quoted seems to be mysteriously missing the end of the sentence) and 8:61, which again, if read fully, completely flip the insinuation of the quotes as they have been posted now.

-And the same thing AGAIN with the verses in chapter 9? Why not read them fully, instead of skipping all the lines in between?

It boggles the mind! Like...here is an example:
If someone told you that Charles said about you:
"You're a ... product ... of steel and iron. The animal's instincts, ... strength and skill."

You might be quite pleased. But then when you actually read what was said about you, it was:
"You're a failure, Zero, a failure. A waste product. A slave to a contraption of steel and iron. The animal's instincts, but not his strength and skill."

It means something completely different! (also, a cookie point for whoever guesses where that is from ).

[edit on 8-2-2010 by babloyi]

reply to post by babloyi


quote; "You're a failure, Zero, a failure. A waste product. A slave to a contraption of steel and iron. The animal's instincts, but not his strength and skill."

It means something completely different! (also, a cookie point for whoever guesses where that is from ).

Clever

"The Adding Machine"