All to many people want nothing more than cradle to grave care and protection.... they are content to accept the nonsense belief that the government is there for them and will take care of them...

example... remember the idiot that said she was not going to worry about her car gas or payments or mortgage because obama was going to take care of it...


this is or has become so typical of the apathy that people have now... There is almost no sense of self reliance nor a type of will to prepare for the long term.... everything is me and my or what is in it for me...

As long as there is nothing to step into their little comfort zones... they worry about nothing...and that applies also to the people that are the whiners.... they are all so quick to blame others for their own personal issues and all to often the onset of spmething like the loss of a job... It does not matter whether it is their fault or not... it will become someone elses fault.

Americans have lost a great deal of their intestinal fortitude (guts) and many have become so disheartened with everything they will grasp at straws for anything that makes the "comfort zone" more secure.

Gone are the days when americans would go out of their way to assist a fellow farmer get his crops in... Not totally gone, but close to it. How often do men open the door for a woman without thinking about it? Not to often.

Our personal and national morals have slipped to lows never seen before in the history of this nation. Our legal system has gotten to the point where the criminal element has more rights than that of the victims/ The lawyers no longer have the innocent until proven guilty attitude... it has reversed. We have corruption on all levels in this nation... People of this nation are scared to speak up and many do not because they know they are going to be cast out, laughed at, harrassed, and in many cases things happen that are far worse...

Example: To speak out against many or any of obama's policies is now considered racist. Even if it is not...you are called a racist. However if you speak out against Bush you are considered a patriot.... The tides have turned to the point where Political correctness is the issue of the day.

We have created our own knightmares by the credit card industry.... debt has skyrocketed and bankruptcies of the personal level are off the charts... personal discipline has fell to the point of a near no return.

There are so many things wrong that the list can go on for a good while... but there is also so much that is right about this nation... we all know these things, as well as we know the bad things..

where else in the world can you attend a church of your choice, walk in relative safety in many cities and not fear criminals. We have some of the highest standards of medicine in the world, highest and best of so many things others would kill for...

I have been around the world several times in my years and in many countries...and I have seen it at the best and the worst...

However, perhaps it is time that the nation take a good beating in the form of the present economical boodoggle... and collapse. From those remains would come a more appreciative people and an entirely new society filled with people of good common sense and purpose would stand up and take back what was lost by the village idiots in the district of criminals...and we as americans could take our rightful place on the stage of the world and sya we are the best and actually know it...


perhaps it is time to knock the little tin soldiers down and all the grand office buildings and start anew.... perhaps it is time

There was an old Jewish idea for the forgiveness of debts after a cycle of so many years. Forgiveness of economic debt- and social debts.

America has been destroying millions of citizen's lives by never forgiving and forgetting. Without a fresh start- a second chance- who can continue on and increase their family's economic and social well being?

With so many citizens disenfranchised permanently, the economy can not grow.

Citizens are passive in the face of overwhelming power. We are weak because their is no more freedom to improve our situation in the face of draconian regulations.

The Christians also teach forgiveness.

We need freedom and a fresh start to carry on.

Pretty complex questions your posing. I think much of your post touched on the issues that plague the nation.

I think there has been a trend of selfishness and self servience that has blinded the Western world. Consumerism and technology has made it possible to never have to know your neighbor or even meet them.

I think consumerism is a disease and can seriously distract someone from the real things that matter in life. Materialism, consumerism, and advertising have joined together to create very high expectations for the good life and a belief that all are entitled to these expectations (Roberts, 2000).

If people feel they are entitled to consume, they see consuming as an expected reward for behaving in a certain way. Entitlement preaches that people deserve good things because they have been good, smart, diligent, or born in the right place (Risher, 2003). Worse, if something is seen as an entitlement (in this case, the right to consume), people will place a high priority on that activity to the exclusion of others (McGinnis, Chun, & McQuillan, 2003).

This reality is even more alarming considering that, with a sense of entitlement comes a lack of connection (Surdyk & Diddams, 2001). This disconnectedness leads to enormous social, economic, and personal suffering inflicted by a few people whose antisocial attitudes and behaviour result, less from social forces than, from an inherent sense of entitlement and an incapacity for emotional connection to the rest of humanity.

For these individuals, social rules have no constraining force, and the idea of a common good is merely a puzzling and inconvenient abstraction (Hare, 1995). A paradox emerges in that their sense of entitlement gives them the perceived moral high ground (O'Neill, 2000) at the same time that they experience a declining sense of personal responsibility, leading to immoral consumption (Strauss, 2000). A negative consequence of this perspective is that many consumers do not feel any sense of noblesse oblige to support their nation or to spread charity among the general public (Surdyk & Diddams, 2001).

We are all to busy getting our own to give a crap or so it seems.

sparrow

While I agree with alot of the OP somethings were left out.

1. Children need to be taught the idea of personal responsibility, by their parents. Mommy and daddy aren't always gonna be there, learn to be self sufficient.
2. Political correctness has got to go. Call a spade a spade and act accordingly.
3. Fix the school system, the only reason lil Johnnie can't read can't just be the parents fault, although they have a big stake in it too. Dumbing down our schools to help the underachievers was just plain stupid.
4. Bring back common decency..........it left about the time MTV made the scene. Acting like a moron and treating people badly just to try and be funny should not be tolerated, instead it's the norm.
5. End entitlements to bums who have never had, nor intend to get a job. Fat, dumb, happy and living on welfare is no way to go through life.
6. Speak english...........not todays utterly overused gangsta talk. Why in the hell would a newspaper use the phrase "baby mamma" instead of mother? How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you talk like an uneducated boob.
7. Enforce the immigration laws we have and do away with the anchor baby clause. We don't need new laws, enforce the ones we have and those breaking them.....punish them to the full extent of the law. The elected officials setting up sanctuary cities.....punish them, as harshly as possible, try them for treason......put an end to this plague.
8. Stop giving to other countries. It makes no sense to give money to others that we have to borrow. Call in the debts owed now.
9. Get the hell out of the UN. We need not be anyones lackies.......nor pay for the priveledge of being a member.
10. Vote every encumbant out of office..........who said you have to be a politician to run for office? The ones in office now, owe somebody....get rid of them.
11. Term limits. There is no reason for some fat lazy bastard like Ted Kennedy to live at the government trough for his entire life. The longer they are in office the more corrupt they become.
12. Affirmative action has outlived it's usefullness. If you can't make it on your merits, well, go flip burgers.
13. Do away with organizations such as the ACLU......an organization that makes big bucks sueing for alot of nonsense. Not every case, but it does seem lately the more screwed up you are, the more willing they are to take your case.

I could keep going, but lets see what others come up with.

Well lets start with social promotion in schools and go from there.

Then we'll go on to the unentiled living here and receiving hand out and actually in many cases being given things that if you are an American you cannot get.

The issue is a complex and mutifacited one, and there is more than one answer. I agree with most of what's been said in this thread so far.


Another big factor -- media consolidation. 30 years ago there were hundreds of different local TV and radio stations as well as newspapers, etc. This meant lots of jockying and competition, and it made it harder to hide the truth in some ways. Now all of the mainstream media is controlled by a tiny handful of massive corporations who are all so terrified of their shares losing value that they won't print anything critical or rock the boat. They won't challenge readers to think, either, and deliver up pap about celebrities, etc.

Fortunately, to counter that, we have the Interent and other forms of new media. People are increasingly turning to new sources of information, which is good. But how long before the Interent gets streamlined, over-regulated, and corporified? It's already happening. Its up to us to keep the Internet free.

One other point of hope: While there are millions of Americans who toe the line and bleat like sheep without thinking, there are also millions who are highly critical of the government and status quo. Look at all the criticism of America on this site and others made by...Americans. I would say that although there is a great deal of the much-maligned "American arrogance" out there, America also has a robust and still-living tradition of spontaneous self-criticism and indignation. The flame may be guttering, but it isn't dead yet. It is this lively self-criticism and willingess to question autority that has made America strong since the 1700s and will save it in the future.


[edit on 2/7/10 by silent thunder]

the only way people are going to listen, and change, is if their comforts are taken away. as long as people have uninterrupted lives, they're going to continue doing what they're doing. say for example something happened where all technology just crashed and we had no tv, internet or phones...people would freak out and be forced to acknowledge whats going on. until something major happens to get right in the faces of the vast majority of the public, nothing will happen.

Originally posted by devilishlyangelic23
the only way people are going to listen, and change, is if their comforts are taken away. as long as people have uninterrupted lives, they're going to continue doing what they're doing. say for example something happened where all technology just crashed and we had no tv, internet or phones...people would freak out and be forced to acknowledge whats going on. until something major happens to get right in the faces of the vast majority of the public, nothing will happen.

we could handle that... and be quite comfortable, but most would not know what to do with out all their little gadgets.... those are the ones I would feel sorry for.... for about 1 minute

Originally posted by devilishlyangelic23
the only way people are going to listen, and change, is if their comforts are taken away. as long as people have uninterrupted lives, they're going to continue doing what they're doing. say for example something happened where all technology just crashed and we had no tv, internet or phones...people would freak out and be forced to acknowledge whats going on. until something major happens to get right in the faces of the vast majority of the public, nothing will happen.

True.

Remember, however, that millions are already suffering. One in four American children is on foodstamps. The unemployment rate is much higher than stats lead on. Millions have lost their homes and another big wave of foreclosures is on the horizon.

These people already are hurting. They already are desperate. And they already are angry. But their voices are not being heard because the mainstream media has its fingers stuck in its ears and is singing, "la la la I can't hear yoooooo."

We rely on "the system" (or "society") to look out for us, and limit our thinking to changing options within it as if it were a software configuration or machine control panel. When we see problems, we attempt to fix them within the methods of our society or write it off as an unchanging and unchangeable mess to which we adapt. As neither works, our cycle of helplessness and alienation deepens.

In turn this lulls us into docility. Those who resist face long lives of living in the margins, and those who are not bothered by dysfunction succeed easily. Are there any tasks in society which test us particularly? Not really. We go through the education, get the certification, make the contacts and then have our jobs waiting for us. Within the remaining narrow space of time any actions we choose are seen as "hobbies" and inconsequential. Nothing will change, get in line and wait, our friends counsel.

Of course we watch and read the MSM, a form of entertainment which profit by presenting us with the most vivid information possible. So we see the procession of murders, disasters, horrors and comedic corruption and start to view it as background noise because it is always there. We descend into nullity thinking that it has always been this way and never will change, and we turn inward. Soon we think about nothing other than ourselves because the rest is a constant scream of depletion.

Yet we worry when our "noble" leaders fail to notice the bigger problems, and these problems increase like a cancer or a slow leak, soon inundating us in a negative and parasitic environment. Isolated in ourselves, we try to explain them away or ignore them, or fall back on some pathetic statement that we are waiting for our species to wake up and figure it out. And our doubt grows, because we know that each daily activity we undertake is contributing to this mess. Each disposable product, more landfill. Each purchase, more staying power to the disaster. Each interaction, another lost chance to vote no faith in this mess.

It's a great question. One that should be asked to a much larger audience.

I don't have the full answer, but I've got some ideas. Some you hit in your original post...

1) The powers that be have put together a shockingly brilliant system to "keep us in our place", and we've bought into it For the "commoner", the working person, the person who lives under a six-figure, single income, it's one step forward and two steps back. Just look at the prices...on everything! We finance our cars and houses. That means we don't have the money to really buy it. (So why are we trying buy it in the first place?) Look at our medical bills; doctors, hospitals, dentists, etc. Even if I have insurance, say I need to have dental work done. I'm going to have to pay $1000, minimum for a bridge, caps, crowns, what have you. If I don't have good insurance, and I need to stay at the hospital for a night or two, forget it. Look at our groceries, a gallon of milk, $3+ now? Gas, $3.50+. A bachelors degree? $25k+? Are you serious?
Take all of these things into account, and also take into account that as cost of living goes up, unemployment goes up as well. While the market is flooded with workers, employers take wages down knowing that people are just desperate for work. All the while, we're swimming in our own debt from things mentioned above. One step forward, two steps back.
They've created a culture of consumerism and overpriced, underdelivered services (and we haven't helped the matter). We're just happy to wear a pair of designer jeans, drive a fancy car and live in a 5 bedroom, 3000+ sq ft house. We have so many expenses and "wants" (not "needs") that we're not going to speak up. That would affect our way of life. If we were to revolt, we may lose our jobs or get thrown in jail, or worse. If we don't have a job, we can't pay our bills and we can't consume.

2) The "average" american isn't that intelligent. Maybe evidenced by my point above, but really, we're just not that smart. Common sense isn't so common anymore. Have you tried to have a conversation with a regular subrbanite lately? It's rough. There isn't a lot of depth there.
We're not leaders anymore. We don't seem to be any good at it. Our "leaders" are running us into the ground, and most of us seem to be pretty OK with it. Most people are followers. Go watch an Obama press conference or Town Hall about the economy, then ask people how they feel about what was said afterwards. You'll get a mix, but you'll get quite a few that "like what he said about jobs", or "like what he said..." about this or that, and believe we're headed in the right direction. Meanwhile, Barry gave no road map on how to created "600,000 new jobs". He just said he's gonna do it (just like everything else) . Meanwhile, Joe-Kool-Aid-Drinker thinks we're headed in the right direction while he heads to the store to buy groceries with food stamps.
Go out into a large gathering. Better yet, go to the grocery store or hardware store under the threat of a storm or some emergency. Regardless of the scenario, it's mass hysteria.
Independant thinking is indicative of intelligence. It takes independant thinking to see through the BS. On the average, we're just not intelligent enough to see through the BS, get organized and take a stand.

3) We're only in it for ourselves. We're content, complacent. We don't think globally, or even locally. We don't think outside of our own little sphere. Those of us who do have the power (money) to make a difference are so content with their own life they wouldn't dare make a change. We don't look out for our fellow man. If we have no sense of brother or sisterhood, we're not going to be able to band together for a common good.

Basically, we're weak because we're all just too caught up in our own little "american dream" to wake up and realize how badly things need to change.

Sorry about replying so late. I havent been on much.

But I think you hit all of the points that I didnt. We are complacent.

Most people think life is what is in your little box. It's like the bank commercials on TV.

"I didnt know I could have a REAL pony!!"

It's true. Most people dont know. But whats worse...well...most people dont care.

[edit on 11-2-2010 by InertiaZero]

Americans, generally speaking, are generous, hospitable, gregarious, optimistic, positive, confident

Bad qualities ?

The forefathers of Americans of 100 years ago were predominantly Christian. They preached and practiced mercy and forgiveness

Bad qualities ?


Americans have always had to be forced into war. They don't like bloodshed for their own or others

Bad quality ?


Americans are suffering a condition not unlike shock

They absorbed shock during and after WW1, WW2, Korea, Viet Nam, Gulf War, 'Wars on Terra' in the last 100 years alone

Americans invest their energies in family, community, nation

Bad investment ?

Because of their innate politeness, Americans were easily conned into 'politically correct speech' and the destructive 'multiculturalism' --- both of which neutered and hamstrung Americans and stole their voice, made them feel 'guilty'

Americans feel guilty about everything --- all according to plan

Americans don't need to be 'silenced'. They silence themselves. They berate themselves. They blame themselves. They are depressed. And their confidence and beliefs have been largely destroyed. All according to the plan

Americans ... AMERICANS themselves ... are not weak

Americans have been ruthlessly sold out and betrayed. Over and over again

Look to Israel and to a series of presidents who have been secret jews


Americans are strong. They just need to realise it. Then they need to quit being self-effacing and accepting and get back up on their hind legs

Can Americans unite now their land has been weakened by millions of UN-Americans. That's the question