Yahweh is a storm god

[edit on 21-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pthena


Hello Pthena!

I have only seen part of Avatar...some friends brought over a pirated version of it and I watch the first 30 mins or so. I ended up being the one to corral the children and keep them busy while the others enjoyed the movie. Its hard for me to sit and watch a movie when I dont have stillness around me....so I do look forward to watching it when it comes out on DVD and I can have my TV after kids go to bed. There are very few movies that can keep my attention but I know I will enjoy Avatar in its fullness. I loved the parts I did get to see!

reply to post by illece


Is it also not possible that Jesus never did quote from the OT....and if Jesus did quote some things from the OT does that mean he supported the whole of it? He did call some of those people that followed in ways of the OT 'children of the devil' (which to me interprets, 'children of the flesh').

He doesnt seem to support the ways of the OT...so I am cautious to say he did support it. The blood sacrifices seems to of upset him, the idea of material temples seems to upset him/ Im not saying there is nothing in the OT that Jesus found as a spiritual wisdom...but am cautious to believe also everything written in the NT. I focus on the parables and the nature of Jesus.

I believe Rome had an agenda...and we see the agenda in the life of Jesus being tied to the OT as if Jesus was the final sacrifice....to bring not only Judaism and gentiles together...but also the Pagans to a degree. The OT tried to being the many gods into one god (this was its goodness) and the NT tried to bring many people into one (which was its goodness). But still, both have failures of importance placed on things of Earth without the spirit. The NT not so much...but Earthly things are still there. On one hand it talks about Earthly Temple being built again, on the other hand, it talks about a Temple that will be built without hands that is not of this Earth.

To support what pasttheclouds is trying to say....in the end...its important to see both the NT and OT has much purpose for God and our seeking God. God offers us what Thee is not and offers us what Thee is....the seeker will see....the followers wont. This is not bad or sad....for God made it this way to be so. God made such things so there are markers that show a souls growth and to show what the soul is still in need of. One book offers a god image that is more tied to Earth then spiritual things, the other offers more spiritual wisdom's then Earthly wisdom's. Some people will do what ever they have to do to make their self believe the two books both show Gods nature....what I see is that both books show us mans nature and Gods nature. This is utterly important to learn about mans nature and desires before we can learn things of spirit and heaven. How can we know what is of heaven if we first dont learn what is of Earth?

So both books are very valid....for me. Even though I dont see the OT image of God as 'God' in Thee's true form of what is Holy....I do see that path as necessary for man back then and now...to show us what Holy is not. Think about being in a forest, and learning what the forest has to offer you. You will notice the forest has darkness, times where you can find no direction....but also, through the trees, you will notice light breaking through, offering direction to you....I see the Bible as this....something that offers the darkness and something that offers the light. We must know both to see a difference between the two, we must have both to have comparison.

Not wrong or right....just passing thoughts.
LV

i have a problem with the concept that rome was responsible for manufacturing false information in the bible. that's not to say they didn't, but that i have a problem with that idea. namely:

1) if they created the texts, why didn't they follow the hebrew calendar?

2) if they created the texts, why'd they hide them away from people?

3) if they created the texts, why'd they only teach in latin no matter what nationality or education level was of their parishoners, and usually only from an approved papal text, not even in the bible?

4) what's the point of creating a mammoth text about the life of this guy called yeshua, include laws about how to live and treat each other, then not let anyone see it for over 1000 years?

reply to post by undo


I wouldnt say the created the entire texts...but its not hard to see the mixing of beliefs...even in the NT.

I dont see Rome allowing the people to be taught self enlightenment....for Rome needed the power through the churches to have power over the people. But yet...Jesus taught on the side of the road.

Things just dont add up. I believe there was political agenda's going on when certain gospels were written. Given power to Rome, the Church, the Elite. They might of found what they were doing to be very harmless...for if it beings the people together in the end and away from chaos...then to them, this would be a good thing.

It could also be without political agenda...we could be seeing still again, like in the OT....a many people trying to sort our a teaching and they try to link the new teaching with the old. This is not uncommon for humans to do....look for links with the old.

We cant ignore how many beliefs are interwoven within both books. The reason for this surely cant be known for sure...it may be very innocent, just their way of understanding mabey.

Originally posted by illece
What i do find difficult to understand is that Jesus quoted regularly from the old testament,as if he believed its truthfulness,and did in fact believe in the God of the old testament.

Well, there are some confounding things about the OT god. At times, it is almost like the prophets were talking to two different entities. Like one poster stated earlier, there is a verse where God asks "Am I the God you prayed to when you were in captivity in Babylon?" To me, that alone imples that there is something strange going on in the OT....

[edit on 21-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by pasttheclouds

jesus did that because he did believe in the old testament god,
in the same way as i personally do it, that god is (reflected by) based on
the law, and it's that law that only speaks love, before
the prophets could see it themselves.

Is that the only argument traditionalists have? "Oh, well, the OT are the laws." That just doesn't wash with me. Sorry.

LOVE!!!???LOVE!!!??? Are you serious? The OT god knew nothing thereof. You cannot be serious.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


did you ever read my posts if you react like that ?

go to my post, you will notice something strange,
i talk about "witnesses"

the law states:
love god with all your heart, all ...
it states, that accusitions are to be made
only when there are witnesses.
This is the curse side of the law,
the blessing side is,
god is one, oneness DOES NOT HAVE witnesses.
Oneness gives us a law where we can choose,
thats why the angel didnt fight the devil over the body of moses,
the angel avoided to accuse.

to simple no ?
thats the whole point of the law.
god is simple.

the symbolic law has the secrets of logic in it,
ofcourse you can act it out literally,
but to accuse you need witnesses,
and you divide god.
the symbolic law is made to FAIL.
because every human (lie) will fail to that law,
the symbolic law as literal is impossible to keep in its total,
all are cursed, and by that curse
god is set free. because god does not need
the symbolic law, or he is not god.
YEs, God trapped us, to fullfill his paradox.

HE GAVE US THE TRUTH, but not the interpretation,
so history could make a u-turn.

Israel is a mirror of the whole history of mankind,
and of the times to come now.
A mirror.

god can not judge himself in his oneness,
he forgives himself, he is not guilty.

the law is about oneness or division, god or baal,
to put names on it.

yes, love, the whole law is love.




[edit on 21-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by illece
What i do find difficult to understand is that Jesus quoted regularly from the old testament,as if he believed its truthfulness,and did in fact believe in the God of the old testament.

Well, there are some confounding things about the OT god. At times, it is almost like the prophets were talking to two different entities. Like one poster stated earlier, there is a verse where God asks "Am I the God you prayed to when you were in captivity in Babylon?" To me, that alone imples that there is something strange going on in the OT....

[edit on 21-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

I say that hoping it was a rhetorical question.

Like hay remember me?

reply to post by Logarock


I don't take it to be that at all....

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by Logarock

 

I don't take it to be that at all....

Yep, something strange going on in the OT.

Have noticed this problem from youth.

Its like what Jesus told John and his brother, perfectly good OT question by the way, Hay why not just call down fire from heaven. Lets go OT! And Jesus said you know not what spirit you are of.

What I think is that The Lord God of Israel, the guy with the sword, "the sword", Elijahs fire God was the angel Michale. Gidions helper ect. Samsons burst into flame guy.

The "Sword of the Lord"...His, Gods "terrible swift sword". What Jesus was telling John was that you are dealing with Me right now. Its interesting that John was the one given the visions of when angels dump wrath on the earth.

The OT has been of late cut up by the ELohist and YaHwist schools of thought on it's Authorship for this very reason, as there's an apparent dual-nature to the "godhead" in Bible, almost (it is suggested) as though the one was the beginning whilst the other the ending and from there were worked together!

[edit on 2010/2/21 by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU]

reply to post by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU


It seems that way. It has been an issue with me for quite sometime. Of course, it has been a theological and philosophical since the 3rd century. I mean, I am certainly not the first and won't be the last to bring this OT-NT dichotomy to the attention of others.

The NT is all about the OT being the Scriptures like the Qur'an was also about "The Book" before any NT was brought into inclusion.

It's popular to think of progress and advancement or development as though the recent "new"
supersedes to obsolete the venerable of "old", but rather even He said it; "If you know not
Moses speaking Earthly things then how shall you know of me the Heavenly?" and "Think not
that I came to dis-annul the Torah (direction) or the Prophets for I did come to fully-fill them!"

Truly those really knowing the scriptures (not their handlement) have no problem with any other part,
but those who are partisan have problems with any other participants validity by their not knowing IT!

[edit on 2010/2/22 by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU]

reply to post by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU


It's easy to say that. However, if you have no understanding of how the bible was canonized and for what reasons that only certain parts were allowed to be placed in it, then you have no real knowledge of it at all.

To say that the bible was not canonized for political purposes, purposes to suit a worldly empire, is arguing out of ignorance. That is just the long and the short of it.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


Your hangup on the "Canonized" Bible excluding mostly books outside the generally accepted (mostly New Testament and Apocrypha) can have validity only concerning the venerable Scripture (as Old Testament), and of that only 5 books were rejected because of obvious embellishment in the existing copies (as readily distinguishable being a break in the cadence). When we catch this today they are translated anyway but parenthetically (as brought in from a marginal statement by some "Pius copyist"), and inserted words for smooth readability or sense in translation are italicized.

Since then we're so far past their inability to choose the volume (missing the Biblical Calendar requiring Jubilees and Enoch for example but including Esther) that there is actually too much extant scripture to the degree of redundancy and besides all was preserved anyway, there isn't a book they spurned that we don't still have today!

We can put it all together easier than holding to this banter, what do you want? The missing books from within Kings are the only mentioned that're lacking! We have so much Scripture (Daniel is comparable to the Psalms, the full collection of the Psalms are nearly as large as the entire TeNaCh, and the complete Volume is fully doubly greater than common)!

I told you before that it's (almost) all in the DSS corpus, and then there's the Sinai monastic library collection! Did you think you needed more? What is lacking (besides a peoples lack of comprehension of Hebrew!), did you not know that you aren't ever pointed anywhere outside the TeNaCh and it is to that you were referred by "JESUS"?




[edit on 2010/2/24 by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU]

reply to post by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU


Well, even if what you say is true, and I don't say that I agree whole heartedly, there are still issues.

What of the missing years of Christ?

What about the fact that Adam and Eve were supposedly the first people on earth and they had two sons and the next thing you know, they are taking wives!!!???

I could bring up a list of other things. Where are the books that explain these anomalies?

[edit on 2-3-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

There is no perfect book via 'man'.

God had Thee's book here before man took his first breath....the gift of life, the to and the fro....Gods word is within perfection, life itself, the spirit of life.

Place yourself way back in time before books were passed around. Gods word was there.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Place yourself way back in time before books were passed around. Gods word was there.

Well,even the bible states that "In the beginning was the word." Few really understand what this means.Words have energy, yet, people use them frivously.

Speaking comes to most people as naturally as breathing. On many occasions our words are uttered without conscious thought; in fact we rarely stop and think about what we are saying. Thousands of words pour out of our mouths each day as our thoughts, opinions, judgements and beliefs are freely expressed. Often, however, we are oblivious to the positive or negative effect these words have on ourselves and the people around us.

Words have tremendous power. Words give out energy and a message which creates a reaction in others. Everything you say produces an effect in the world. Whatever you say to someone else will produce some kind of an effect in that person. We are constantly creating something, either positive or negative with our words.

Words have power

To take it a step farther...people take the book of life to be a literal book.

What if its not...what if the book of life is the understanding one intakes during 'life'....what if the 'word' and 'book' is not literal 'words and books' as men know them today.

What if they are really understanding and wisdom, something that life offers us. The word could be the essence of life itself. Therefor the word is in me, in you, in everyone, as well as the tree, the plants we eat, the animals, nature itself....all things that are not man made.

This is where I think language cripples us to limits that we cant see beyond the 'literal' meaning of 'words'.

Without all the delusions of mans interpretations...before books were written...the 'word' was here. Life was here. The offering of wisdom and understating was here.

The breath of life itself...is the word? Life itself, offers us the wisdom's and understandings we need.

Does anyone else see how they could find God before the days of written books? Course this would then bring up the idea that we dont need to know about the history of the Jews or Jesus to 'know' God. Some have issues with thinking they have to know these things to know God.

Sometimes my deepest understandings comes from me trying to perceive life before man wrote any beliefs in a book. Sometimes the understanding I receive by doing this is much more pure and perfect then what I get from the books. How could God make a perfect 'book' to be read for understanding? Hide it within the blueprint of the world, within the blueprint of life itself, the fact that we experience 'life' is the offering to us the 'word' of God. A place where it cant be destroyed or changed, remaining perfect.

Just rambling as always
LV