'Birther' Movement Rears Head in Nashville, page 3

reply to post by rnaa

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And the Obama supporters attempt to focus attention solely on the much-debated birth-certificate issue

rather than admit that ALL of Obama's life, beginning with his circumstances of birth is a mystery

It's NOT just the birth certificate, as Obama supporters are so sadly aware


It's ALL OF IT


So let's not confine this to the birth certificate

and let's see the paper trail of Obama's life


Oh ? We can't ? He sealed his records the moment he was able to do so ?


Unusual step to take, isn't it ?

Wonder why he went to such extreme lengths to ensure he would remain a mystery ?


Almost as intriguing as the strident wails and attitudes of his 'supporters'

reply to post by Dock9

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So let's not confine this to the birth certificate

and let's see the paper trail of Obama's life


Oh ? We can't ? He sealed his records the moment he was able to do so ?

Once again a lie repeated for the sole purpose of disseminating FUD.

He has sealed nothing of his life "the moment he was able to do so". Any records are protected in exactly the same way as the equivalent record of every other citizen in the USA - according to the State and Federal Laws.

Unusual step to take, isn't it ?

No it isn't. It is mundanely, trivially, commonplace.

The only records that are protected by his PO relating to Presidential papers are the same records that have been protected by every President in the past and will be protected by every President in the future: his Presidential papers. He didn't put any special seal on his SAT exams, nor his immigration papers if any. He protected the papers that he deals with as PRESIDENT Obama, not his former position as Senator Obama or Private Citizen Obama.

Richard Nixon did it. You may recall studying about Watergate and the attempt to get him to release the tapes of his Oval Office discussions with his co-conspirators in your American History class last year, but maybe you haven't gotten that far yet. I encourage you to look it up.

Jimmy Carter did it.

Ronald Reagan did it.

George Bush did it.

Bill Clinton did it.

George W. Bush did it.

And Barrack Obama has done it.

Nothing unusual about it at all.



[edit on 8/2/2010 by rnaa]

reply to post by YourPopRock

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Those past presidents didn't have people in foreign countrys claiming that they were born there.

And that has to do with the PO to protect his Presidential Papers how? This is the order you are talking about isn't it?

You are merely repeating the tactic of ignoring the facts. The PO has nothing to do with anything that happened before the day he took office. NOTHING. ZERO. NADA. ZIP. And in this way it is identical to the PO's that every other President since at least Nixon has put in place.

Get that through your head!

Those past presidents didn't have a grandmother (who then suddenly died) claiming that they weren't born in the US.

Again, this is NOTHING to do with a PO sealing his Presidential papers that in turn had nothing to do with anything before the day he took office.

And anyway, I wasn't aware that someone was claiming that Obama's grandmother wasn't born in the US? We know that his paternal grandmother was born in Africa. Is this what you are talking about? What relevance does this have?

And what is sudden about dieing after a long battle with cancer? Furthermore it was his maternal Grandmother, Madelyn Lee Payne Dunham, that died. I can find no information about his 'Granny Sarah' dieing. Do you have such a link from a reliable source?

OK, I know you are talking about 'Granny Sarah's' interview (by the way - not his 'real' grandmother) and her alleged assertion that he was born in Kenya. That assertion is a lie, a cut and paste hack job on the interview. And your continuing to press it makes my point completely and fully.

Have you listened to the full interview or read the transcript? Not the edited for Faux version, the full version. The one where the savvy Western reporter is pressing this dirt poor but intensely proud woman to incriminate herself and Obama with leading questions, and she refuses to be intimidated, and repeats several times, that her grandson was born in Hawaii and his father was born in Kenya. Several times. And you can hear her getting irritated by the jerk interviewer, and the interpreter trying to convey that irritation without insulting the guy (as a good interpreter should).

Obviously not, because if you had, you wouldn't continue to propagate the lie, unless of course it is your specific purpose to ignore the facts in order to fuel the FUD, not clear it away.

You speak of the desire to have the confusion cleared away, yet you cling to the confusion as if you life depended on it, as if it is all that defines you as a person. If you would listen to the answers when you ask a question instead of just parroting the question over and over and over, you might possibly find the understanding you profess to seek.

There is already plenty of FUD about Obama. It would be easy as heck to put it to rest. But, like most other things he does, he is also ineffective at doing that!

Nothing Obama could do would put it to rest, he has already done more than any other President to meet these peoples demands. It isn't his issue, his issue is to get on with the job he was elected to do. It is the "anti-Obama movement's" (whatever that may be taken to mean) issue to cause maximum disruption at whatever level they can. It is they that insist on using lies and ignorance to draw attention away from his agenda. Whatever that message is and whether it is good or bad for America, they don't care, they just don't want it heard, because they have no viable, alternative message with which to debate.

reply to post by YourPopRock

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How is that any different than the "anti-bush movement" in the activities you claim?

It is very different. The "anti-bush movement" brought up things Bush actually did. They didn't invent things and lie about things. And if their charges were demonstrated to be wrong, they didn't keep harping on it trying to make it true through repetition.

If the "anti-obama movement" used the same tactics as the "anti-bush movement" did, they would spend all day every day claiming things like "Obama Lied, people died!" and "Obama stole the election" and all kinds of other silly nonsense.

The only reason they don't, is because it is so obviously untrue in Obama's case that even their most gullible audience members would see through it. The "anti-Bush movement" could legitimately use those slogans because they were TRUE.

The "anti-Bush movement" didn't invent the WMD lies. The Bush White House did. The "anti-Bush movement" didn't refuse to consider a recount until it was too late to produce a result within the Florida constitutional time frame. The Bush Campaign did (via the Governor, Jeb Bush and the Secretary of State).

People want proof. You like Obama, good for you. But, people still want simple proof.

And the proof has been provided. And ignored and denied. And the goal-posts moved and satisfied again. And ignored and denied.

There is no proof that can possibly satisfy you, just like there is no answer that can possibly satisfy the 3yo kid who asks why to every answer. It just keeps going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on... For no reason other than to irritate.

And the lies repeated endlessly in such a tight loop that I'm surprised you guys can see anything past the backsides of the operatives in front of you.

Oh, that's right. You can't. Your nose is buried to deep.

I think you protest a LITTLE too much!

I grew up in the 60's. I don't protest too much; I protest exactly the right amount to make the point.

reply to post by oneclickaway

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Because at this point that is all that really can be said about this theory. Despite the factual evidence that shows that Obama was born in Hawaii birthers have made up a lot of evidence to the contrary.

On the point of the SS number theory. Well I don't have a lot to say about that because frankly the supposed private investigator hasn't come forward to say that he indeed has tracked those numbers down to Obama. Honestly, I could make up a ton of SS numbers too and list them with addresses and say they were Obama's and that he used them. Doesn't make it true.

The name change scandal, is another one that doesn't make any sense. So what if he changed his name, still doesn't make him any less of a natural born citizen. I can legally change my name to John Jacob Jingleheimershmitz and still run for POTUS.

Birthers also feel that Obama has hidden his past too. Well judging by the amount of pure HATE just from the boards here as any indication, if it were me, I would seal my records as well. I say smart man, because the only reason that Birthers want that information is to use it against Obama in an election.

Originally posted by bowlbyville
he was registered as an Indonesian Muslim (it's in his school records).

Care to show us those "school records"

Does that situation disqualify him?

If true, why would it?

There are no records as to him becoming a U.S. citizen again when he returned to live with his grandparents

Where is the record showing he lost his US citizenship?

His college records are sealed and there's gossip that he received grants or scholarships by stating that he was a "foreign student." If that’s true, then he’s a cheat and/or a liar.

Another birther falling for a April fools joke www.snopes.com...

And the short-form of the birth certificate that he produced doesn't contain the same amount of information as the long-form...so why not release it?

How can he release it? That is the only birth certificate that Hawaii releases.

and that's just hypocritical.

No, it is all just birther lies. Remember, this is not about any bit of paper Obama releases!

reply to post by bowlbyville

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There's a lot more to the situation as to whether he was born in HA.


No, there really isn't.

There are contentions that he automatically had dual-citizenship (British) because of his Father was Kenyan. Does that situation disqualify him?

No. It has no impact on his status as a Natural Born Citizen. There is absolutely nothing about his parents citizenship status that can have any bearing whatsoever on his citizenship status unless they were foreign dignitaries on official assignment - and that is one argument I haven't heard.

Furthermore, there is no Constitutional or Legal prohibition against dual nationals in the Presidency. And he isn't a dual national anyway. Not of Kenya, not of Britain, not of Indonesia.

We know that when his mother remarried, he was registered as an Indonesian Muslim (it's in his school records).

Does that situation disqualify him?

That is not true. His stepfather was Indonesian and a Muslim and that is the data that is 'customarily' put on the school records, but Obama was not an Indonesian. The first school he went to was a Catholic run school, he then entered a State school that caters to both Christians and Muslims.

There are no records as to him becoming a U.S. citizen again when he returned to live with his grandparents…although to my knowledge, his Mother didn't surrender their citizenship either.

Because he never lost his citizenship.

US Law does not allow for minors to lose their citizenship due to actions by the parents, a mother marrying an Indonesian does not cost a child American citizenship, even if the father adopts the child.

Obama was at least 5, maybe 6 years old when she married Soetero. Indonesian law only allows children UNDER 5 years old take Indonesian citizenship when adopted. And even then, only when there is no possibility of a dual citizenship state as a result.

Since there is no way for him to have lost his citizenship, there is no reason for him to have do anything to get it back. His mother's citizenship status is irrelevant.

His college records are sealed

His college records are private and none of your business. As are mine. As are George Bush's. As are Glen Beck's.

They are not 'specially' sealed, or locked up because he is President. They are sealed because that is the privacy law in the various states, and the rule at the various Universities.

and there's gossip that he received grants or scholarships by stating that he was a "foreign student." If that’s true, then he’s a cheat and/or a liar.

It isn't true though. It was an April Fools joke.

How can he release information that doesn't exist? How can he possibly defend himself against people who continue to further on infantile April Fool's jokes?

And the short-form of the birth certificate that he produced doesn't contain the same amount of information as the long-form...so why not release it?

Because the only information that can possibly have any bearing on his eligibility is location and date of birth. Anything else is that may be there is not only irrelevant, but none of your business.

The official Hawai'ian State certificate has been published and it contains everything that is relevant.

For a guy who ran on "transparency" he's not very transparent - and that's just hypocritical.

He is more transparent than any previous President. Remember that PO that protected his Presidential records discussed above? It is the most transparent version in history.

reply to post by YourPopRock

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I think if OBAMA actually wanted this to be put to rest, a simple disclosure of the ss#'s, the long-form birth certificate and the school records wouldn't be much to ask.

He really doesn't have a right to privacy... he is the most public figure in the country.

Yes, in fact, he has exactly the same right to privacy as you or I. And as voters, the public must also have the right to know more about the prospective President than we do our next door neighbor.

Notice that neither is an explicit Constitutional right. Right to privacy is a 'found right' based on the 9th amendment. Right to know is implied from democratic principles that require an informed electorate to work properly.

A balance between these two 'rights' must be maintained. It is every President's duty to protect the rights, not only of himself, but of future Presidents.

Medical record privacy is a prime example where Presidents have slowly given up some of their rights to total privacy. Note emphasis on 'some'. The public is served by knowing about the general health of the President and his physical ability to discharge the duties of his office.

What could the detail of his school records possibly tell the public of his abilities to discharge the duties of his office? He has released all the 'standard' information about his University career, grades and honors and what not, and the schools confirm it.

What else would be there that would more fully inform the public? That he got reprimanded for participating in a "panty raid" (I just made that up)? That he got caught smoking pot in his dorm room? (he has admitted smoking pot in University). How would any of that kind of stuff further inform the public?

The BC has been done to death. There is nothing that could be on a birth certificate of any detail that would have any bearing on anything other than his location and date of his birth. Nothing else has any bearing what-so-ever on his eligibility. The official Hawai'ian Birth Certificate that has been published contains this information. End of story.

The Social Security number controversy baffles me. The lists I've seen are filled with so many obvious errors that they are rendered totally useless, and frankly I have no doubt they are made up from somebody's fantasy world.

The lists, supposedly listing various SSN's used by Barrack Obama, seem to concentrate on his mother for no apparent reason. She is invariably listed as Male, I suspect because the compiler of the list didn't realize that his mother's name was Stanley. Again that strikes me as the result of someone inventing the data.

Some of the entries list his address as "White House" or "123 White House" and don't have a SSN listed in the record. This kind of stuff strikes me as pure invention.

In fact, my background as a Computer Systems Programmer/Analyst/Project Manager gives it a very familiar look. It looks a lot like dummy data for testing data conversion or reports or data entry screens, etc. On my projects we usually made up data and use pop stars names, like Elvis Presley or Brigit Bardot. Our test databases would end up with those names all over the place, on invoices, as employees, as service providers, etc. It certainly wasn't real.

Futhermore, what does it mean to have a Social Security number 'associated' with an address? Was he using it as ID on the rental agreement? SSN's are not allowed to be used that way, so maybe the number is really a driver's license number. I know I used to refuse to give my SSN to people as ID, but they could have my driver's license number. I have watched people write my DL number on a form in a space labeled SSN. This means that there are probably records on databases somewhere that have me with several different SSN's, but I only have one.

Does it mean that he received SS benefits at the address using false SSN's? If that is the case then 'WE' have to charge him with SS fraud if we want to get anywhere. There is nothing we can do to force him to incriminate himself. And more importantly, if he choses to remain silent on the matter, we cannot use the silence to condemn him.

(I am not big into having someone who carries the nuclear football being someone I have questions about).

Its fine having questions. I had a lot of doubts about every President starting with Johnson having the keys to that briefcase (except oddly, Carter and Bush Sr.) I mean really, Reagan was completely demented the last 3 years at least. He was just about as likely to bomb St. Petersburg Florida as he was St. Petersburg Russia (Lenningrad at the time).

But having questions and doubts is one thing, demanding to cancel Constitutional and legal procedures is quite another, wholy unacceptable thing altogether.

Originally posted by bowlbyville
There are contentions that he automatically had dual-citizenship (British) because of his Father was Kenyan. Does that situation disqualify him?

Not at all

he was registered as an Indonesian Muslim (it's in his school records).

www.obamaconspiracy.org...

Does that situation disqualify him?

Not at all

There are no records as to him becoming a U.S. citizen again

Why would there? he never lost his US citizenship

His college records are sealed and there's gossip that he received grants or scholarships by stating that he was a "foreign student." If that’s true, then he’s a cheat and/or a liar.

That was a April's fool joke! www.snopes.com...

And the short-form of the birth certificate that he produced doesn't contain the same amount of information as the long-form...so why not release it?

As has been explained many times here before, Hawaii does not release long form certificates - so how can Obama get one?

For a guy who ran on "transparency" he's not very transparent - and that's just hypocritical.

No, it is just birther lies - this has all been explained many times here and many other places before!

reply to post by YourPopRock

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I don't think they are "birther lies"...

I think that these are inconsistencies that have yet to be fully addressed.

I do believe that once they are honestly and satisfactorily addressed, everyone should stand by the result... no matter which side of the issue they are on.

Admirable sentiment.

So, since all the inconsistencies have been fully and honestly and satisfactorily addressed over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

... will you please act on your sentiment and stand by that result?

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