How would you solve the unemployment crisis?, page 9
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reply posted on 9-2-2010 @ 04:36 AM by TheWalkingFox
Wow. Just wow. The question was, "how would you solve the unemployment crisis" and we've got everything from answers to that question... to people talking about disbanding the US, assassinating the Bilderbergs, and fluoride in the water. I didn't know people actually raied against that, I thought it was all tongue in cheek.

Learn something new every day.

At any rate, I'm going to try to confine myself to the OP's question, and solve unemployment.

A lot of people have pointed to welfare as the problem. And you know what? They're almost right. We need to ask ourselves, why are so many people lounging on welfare rather than working. How many of you have, as independent adults worked a job at wages comparable to what your state gives in welfare? I have. It's unsustainable. A person cannot have a home with electricity and steady food on these sort of wages.

Reform needs to start here at the bottom. Most of the employers at these levels - places like Wa-Mart, McDonalds, Target, etc, make so much money that their employee costs are negligible.

- A federal worker bill of rights. The first problem in our country is the attitude that employers are doing their workers a favor just by hiring them on. This is not the case, the workers are the ones making the investment, not the other way around. This needs to be reflected. Workers deserve the right to organize in all industries and meet with employers as equals, not lessers. My manager is not superior person to me.

- mandating a minimum wage pegged to inflation. A gigantic problem in today's economy is that prices go up but wages do not. While it's an irritation for many of us who make a fairly decent wage, for people at the bottom, it's the apocalypse. An inflation-pegged minimum wage prevents this

- Employment guarantees. Low-wage employers tend to wring all they can out of employees, then find some way to toss them out with the trash. This job insecurity is a huge disincentive to working. Rather upon discussing employment, the employer needs to point out "you will get fired for this sort of misconduct" and go over the list of what manner of misconduct that is. So long as the employee stays within the bounds of this code of conduct, they cannot be fired.

- Similarly, there are some places that currently offer a benefits package after a certain amount of time employed. McDonalds comes to mind. Oftentimes when an employee nears eligibility for these benefits, their managers start picking for reasons to terminate the employee. This behavior from the employer needs to be punished by law.

Right now some of you are no doubt clutching your pearls and gasping. Why, these ideas might dip into the profit margin of places like Wal-Mart! Yes, yes they will. However, employee retention will be higher, which will offset the costs. Happy employees also tend to invest their paychecks back into the companies they work at. The decreased pressure o nthe welfare system these changes would bring also reduce the tax costs of these corporations. Given how tiny the employee costs of these sorts of companies are to begin with, I can't see how shortening the gap between cost and profit by a little bit is terribly harmful.

Now of course, we don't have enough wal-mart and McDonalds jobs to go around. Even if we did, weh ave a hell of a lot of skilled people who know their time is worth more than a minimum wage. So what do we do with these folks? Government employment in public works.

Folks, you may all think we're the "greatest country on earth" but a lot of our infrastructure looks like Kazakhstan or something. Many towns and cities in our nation haven't had their roads, sewers, power grid, telephone system, water, bridges, or even environment worked on in sixty years or so. we have enough hands and more than enough skill in this country to solve that problem, the trouble is putting it to work.

Post these jobs in towns and cities across America. Hire individual workers, rather than contract corporations. provide apprentice programs for those who have the drive but not the skill. Identify "problem spots" and work on those first, spreading out from there. Build and repair with an eye towards homes and small businesses, rather than strip malls and highway-side service sector jobs.

Yes, this will cost tax money. But let's be honest here, if we're going to be spending piles of tax dollar, wouldn't you rather see that money go into the pockets of American workers while re-investing in America's infrastructure?

Others have decried the impact of illegal immigrants. I don't. These folks are coming here for work, so I say employ 'em. Put 'em on the work teams with the other Americans. A small deduction from their wages on-site goes towards their citizenship. Let these folks in from all over. As the old saw goes, "If you've got a strong back, we can use ya!"

Next. Protectionism. I have no problem with international trade, until we become an import-only nation, which it seems is very close to being realized. Put tariffs on foreign-manufactured products (not on raw materials, though - there's just some things nature didn't supply us with) and offer tax breaks ONLY to those manufacturing companies who are keeping their operations within the country and employing Americans and Citizen-Immigrants. Reinvigorate the industrial and manufacturing sector, again with tax-paid apprentice programs. The industries themselves remain privately-owned, but with strong regulations to protect the workers.

And finally, diversification. This is where i'm comfortable with government stepping up and breaking things over its knees - megacorps need to go, get broken down into minicorps (all of which need to lose their "personhood" status). This is especially true in agriculture. Big Farma needs to be put though the wood chipper. Chop their holdings (pay fair land value, of course) distribute to American workers. Add i nthe stipulation that these farm plots cannot be sold to a merging company, to prevent the reemergence of big farma. The same concepts apply to automotive, medical, all sorts of industries.

Capitalism's main force - competition - only works in a market where there is actual competition, after all, and where "biggest fish" syndrome is regulated out of the picture with strong anti-monopoly laws.

Throw all this together, and you've got yourself a great recipe for managing unemployment. There will NEVER be a 0% unemployment rate, but it can still drop pretty low.

The big damn thing is that economics needs to "trickle up". The power and bulk of the wealth needs to be in the hands of the working class, so that it can be exercised and spent. Spending money increases motion i nthe market, which creates jobs nd increases wealth. The wealthy are notoriously thrifty spenders, and tend to guy only from a very narrow band of hte market. The working classes have a far greater impact on the market, so changes need to favor them at all times.


reply posted on 9-2-2010 @ 08:00 AM by I Hate Trolls 2
I apologize and was clearly wrong for having criticizing the teachings of William Edwards Deming.

Its clear that his 'bottom to top' management theories in Japan greatly attributed to its dominant position in several markets.

As post by TheWalkingFox mentions,
Reform needs to start here at the bottom. Most of the employers at these levels - places like Wa-Mart, McDonalds, Target, etc, make so much money that their employee costs are negligible.

- A federal worker bill of rights. The first problem in our country is the attitude that employers are doing their workers a favor just by hiring them on. This is not the case, the workers are the ones making the investment, not the other way around. This needs to be reflected. Workers deserve the right to organize in all industries and meet with employers as equals, not lessers. My manager is not superior person to me.


And, this is exactly the opposite of what corporate management wants to hear. Very good point, star for you.

But, I'm left with the question of 'how do you post more than 4000' characters? It always annoyingly cuts me off when I try to do that.


[edit on 9-2-2010 by I Hate Trolls 2]



reply posted on 9-2-2010 @ 10:24 AM by m khan
We are in a job crisis because the government put us into one. Our government policies are the opposite of what we need to get out. The government is "going the wrong way" Keynesian economics don't work, they are smoke and mirrors and have a different agenda. Keynesian economics are aimed at destruction, on purpose, the wolf-in-sheep's-clothing approach to economics.

Ron Paul has been pointing us in the other direction for a long time, but the wolves are in control and lie and cheat (and murder)

Free market Austrian economists on the other hand know that times are bad because of the size and scope of government. The economy is fragile because of the overwhelming stranglehold of bureaucracy and taxation of Washington. Any jobs Washington might create through these endless spending programs are paid for through more taxation and debt put on the productive sectors of the economy. Just as insidious is the hidden tax of inflation caused by the Fed and its ever-expanding credit bubble. When the Fed steps in with its solutions, it only devalues the dollars in everyone's pocket while encouraging more reckless waste on Wall Street. All of this leads to a worsening economy, not an improved one. And so the downward spiral continues. The worse things get, the more politicians want to spend. The more they spend, the heavier the debt load becomes and the more we have to spend just to maintain our interest payments. As our debt load becomes unsustainable, the alarm of our creditors increases. It is becoming so serious that our credit rating, as a nation, could be downgraded. If this happens, interest on the national debt will increase even more, leading to even higher taxes on Americans and inevitably, price inflation.
to stay there.

www.campaignforliberty.com...


reply posted on 9-2-2010 @ 10:41 AM by m khan
reply to post by TheWalkingFox


We want jobs but we don't want communism. You want to put people in public workshops to create goods that there is no demand for. There won't be any competition only Communism. You can have either communism or capitalism but you can't have both. Make-work does not make the economy healthy. You are against welfare. That is welfare. When the government has finished destroying the economy ON PURPOSE they will stick us with socialism and TOTAL loss of freedom.
If the government weren't bent on pushing us into socialism, they would be making decisions to save our economy and not destroy it. If they were not deliberate traitors we would not be in this mess.
But if the government makes us over into a communist system, it would not be convenient for them to keep so many of us alive. I wouldn't trust them with a communist system.
The government destroying the economy. The question is why. They intend to throw out our system of government. You don't think Obama is a socialist. He is a Fabian Socialist, so is the whole CFR, their symbol is a wolf-in-sheep's-clothing. They are destoying our economy on purpose. Why do you think the national debt is so high. They have grown it on purpose to destory America. Example, everyone is crying for the "banks" to "forgive" Haiti's debt. The money to do that will come from the American taxpayers (ie will be added to the national debt). The IMF and the FED have been bleeding money from the US for the last 97 years.

[edit on 9-2-2010 by m khan]



reply posted on 9-2-2010 @ 02:01 PM by trueforger
reply to post by Doc Holiday

My philosophy has been to make items that were so cool people WANTED them,then be able to hit the market with enough product you would be ahead a good while before the inevitable 'chunk' came.No prohibition required.


reply posted on 9-2-2010 @ 11:02 PM by TheWalkingFox
Originally posted by m khan
reply to post by TheWalkingFox


We want jobs but we don't want communism.


You obviously don't understand either communism, nor what I am proposing. Allow me to address your points.

You want to put people in public workshops to create goods that there is no demand for.


I do? No. I said that there should be a government work program, to bring our country's infrastructure up to date, repair the damage dealt by time and nature, and to restart industry. You like buying things, don't you? There's the demand. There's no reason that iWhatevers, flat TV's, and hideous plastic cars can't be made in America

Second, work would not be compulsory. However I imagine that given the opportunity, most Americans would jump at the chance to contribute towards making sure overpasses don't collapse and that storm drains can actually handle storms.

There won't be any competition only Communism. You can have either communism or capitalism but you can't have both.


Actually, quite the opposite. Strong regulation on business is the only thing that can keep a market competitive, otherwise the end result is monopoly. I'm not sure where you get communism out of my ideas, but i suggest you read Marx. he and i are working on different things here

Make-work does not make the economy healthy.


Unnecessary work does not make the economy healthy. However there is necessary work to be done regarding our nation's municipal infrastructures. I'm not talking about doing like the Inka empire did, making people build three parallel roads to the same place just to keep them busy; i'm talking about repairing and improving hte roads that are already there, and kickstarting the attendant industries.

You are against welfare. That is welfare.


I'm not against welfare at all. I'm against the conditions that make welfare necessary. I don't think you read my post; my apologies for making it longer than most of the "Shoot the poor and end taxes!" posts on this thread.

When the government has finished destroying the economy ON PURPOSE they will stick us with socialism and TOTAL loss of freedom.
If the government weren't bent on pushing us into socialism, they would be making decisions to save our economy and not destroy it.


You also seem to have no idea of what socialism is. if we were socialist, I seriously doubt you'd be finding much to complain about. American opposition to socialism is 100% the product of fearmonger cold war propaganda, and 0% related to anything having to do about Socialism.

If they were not deliberate traitors we would not be in this mess.
But if the government makes us over into a communist system, it would not be convenient for them to keep so many of us alive. I wouldn't trust them with a communist system.


Nor would I. Communism does not work at a national level.

The government destroying the economy. The question is why.


Read up on chicago school economics. I assure you, my friend, socialism is the last thing the US government and those in power want to see, because it runs directly counter to their wealthy elitist plans and hopes.

They intend to throw out our system of government.


And they are doing so with the full consent of Americans like yourself, who repeatedly vote and rail against your own interests, because you believe that shooting yourself in the foot is "patriotic". More cold war leftovers.

You don't think Obama is a socialist.


Obama is so NOT a socialist that I doubt he could spell the word. He's a moderate miltonian capitalist.

He is a Fabian Socialist, so is the whole CFR, their symbol is a wolf-in-sheep's-clothing.


It would be awesome if this were remotely true.

They are destoying our economy on purpose.


A more proper term would be "liquidating" - that way it's easier for them to slurp it throug ha straw.

Why do you think the national debt is so high. They have grown it on purpose to destory America.


"They" are the Americans who keep falling for the Republican party's "fiscal conservative" line and electing these warmongering, slash-and-spend miltonian idiots to office. Wanna blame someone? I suggest you look in the mirror.

Example, everyone is crying for the "banks" to "forgive" Haiti's debt. The money to do that will come from the American taxpayers (ie will be added to the national debt). The IMF and the FED have been bleeding money from the US for the last 97 years.
[edit on 9-2-2010 by m khan]


Considering that Haiti's debt is the result of the exact IMF policies you are railing against, i'm not sure why you have a problem with canceling it. I suspect you wouldn't have a problem if the US were to tell the IMF to toss off.

[edit on 9-2-2010 by TheWalkingFox]

[edit on 9-2-2010 by TheWalkingFox]


reply posted on 10-2-2010 @ 08:29 AM by m khan
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

Wow. Just wow. The question was, "how would you solve the unemployment crisis" and we've got everything from answers to that question... to people talking about disbanding the US, assassinating the Bilderbergs, and fluoride in the water.

First of all, you dont seem to understand that this thread is an opened discussion, and there really are no wrong answers. I appreciate hearing everyones contributions, no matter how radical you may think they might be. And, government is definitely one of the problems effecting and perpetuating the unemployment crisis. Actually the Bilderbergs and fluoride have a lot to do with it.Although I don't condone assassinating anyone. That is not the kind of people we should be.

there should be a government work program, to bring our country's infrastructure up to date, repair the damage dealt by time and nature, and to restart industry.

I hold to the belief that people are more important than bridges and roads. Rebuilding roads that are in the middle of nowhere or houses that no one will (or can) live in is not the answer.
What you are proposing are the WPA like projects created under the Roosevelt administration, that essentially placated the masses for a while preventing them from revolting, but do nothing to heal the economy, or the people, and certainly do not restart industry. Yes, You want to put people in public workshops to create goods that there is no demand for; there are far too many laborers under the model that you propose than there are goods and services demanded.

Strong regulation on business is the only thing that can keep a market competitive

and guess who is doing the regulating? who else! big business! And this is unpreventable since they hold all the power in this system, because they essentially are our government. Welcome to the Corporation of the United States. I do not know the answer to this but I know that we need change! Its not working! (for the people, it's working great for the corporations)

I'm against the conditions that make welfare necessary.

There will always exist poor and impoverished people. There is no condition that can prevent this, except for the governments current active policy of genocide, as employed in Haiti, which I condemn with all my heart.

You also seem to have no idea of what socialism is. if we were socialist, I seriously doubt you'd be finding much to complain about.

And as far as communism or socialism go they are just tricks by the elites to enslave the people. But what our leaders are aiming at is a fascist system that just looks socialist, ie good for the people and therefore appealing to the democrats, but is a trick that only benefits the elite and puts the people at risk for losing their properties, pursuit of happiness and their lives.

(socialism) runs directly counter to their wealthy elitist plans and hopes.

You are wrong, the socialism that they will push as a cure-all, when they have us starving like they are now starving the Haitians, will be fascism.

Why do you think the national debt is so high. They have grown it on purpose to destory America.

"They" are the Americans who keep falling for the Republican party's "fiscal conservative" line and electing these warmongering, slash-and-spend miltonian idiots to office. Wanna blame someone? I suggest you look in the mirror.

I would recommend that you read a book by G Edward Griffin The Creature From Jekyll Island which explains why you are deceived. It is the Federal Reserve and their elite class of world bankers that has caused this problem and intend to fix it by destroying our economy and making a world fascist government styled after Nazi Germany.

[edit on 10-2-2010 by m khan]



reply posted on 11-2-2010 @ 06:03 AM by m khan
reply to post by Basilides_The_Gnostic

IMOH giving money to banks won't work because the money will end up with the big banks and they are the enemy. I think that as long as our government is controlled by forces that want our country to be destroyed, we will not get out of this mess. This is not only an economic problem, but a political one. Our government is dedicated to the principles of Fabian Socialism, which is the basis behind the CFR, therefore it is gradually going to push us into not just socialism but fascist totalitarianism no matter what we do as long as it is in power. The only thing we can do to change their thinking is to convince them that they will not get away with it.

[edit on 11-2-2010 by m khan]
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