Are you really awake or just comfortable with believing that you are?

Perhaps our nature does not allow us to grasp this knowledge. We have the gnawing, intuitive feeling of there being something after death, something above this world, but we cannot put our finger onto it, and the vast possibilities cause us not to narrow it down to anything specific.

What religion does is put our mind at ease, and gives us an excuse to not question our existence and any other realities which may be overlaid into ours. This is why there are so many people who choose to believe a religion. If only Christianity were right, why are there so many other religions? And if they are right why are there so many others? Although at the heart of every religion there is an afterlife, and there is an authority figure - a God or Gods.

It displays our vulnerability to the true harsh nature of the world, and those who choose to believe in one religion and bash others, I'd like to redirect you to this recent thread.

We need an authority figure to judge our lives and tell us where to go, and what to do. This shows our weakness in the face of existence.

How I'd like to reply to the OP? Perhaps this is all true - but what if we enter this physical world to experience a physical body and to gain enlightenment concerning the feeling of possessing inside an imminent and inescapable death. The search for a meaning. Physical pain. Helplessness before a vast and infinite universe, which is just an image. When you play a game, there are boundaries you cannot cross. This is precisely what the universe(s) is (or are - if believing in the multiverse theory).

When outside of a physical body, the details of which I will not go into, this vastness is nothing to you, there is another vastness you begin to face, which is the infinity of consciousness and knowledge. We all have a craving for knowledge, and this physical life is just another little piece of enlightenment.

There are restrictions, of course. We are not allowed to know of our infiniteness, because this would cause us to not value this life, to not learn anything from it, and to not feel this empty, lost feeling. We would commit suicide, and relieve our suffering. In a way, this information would kill you. Ignorance is bliss.

It is very likely that the rabbit hole doesn't end. It isn't about knowing how it all works. Morpheus is explaining to Neo how the matrix works. It doesn't matter which section of the rabbit hole we find ourselves in, as long as we know we are in one. As long as we know that we do not know the truth, as we are seeking it, then we do in fact have one over the masses who never question - who incedentally happen to be very obsessed with social esteem and material needs. For men it's being "important" for women it's being "worth it" creating the proud and the depressed.

Socrates said it, I know that I do not know. He went around telling people that to their face, and for most it would never sink in. Why is that concept so hard to understand/accept for some? Why do the masses settle for an obvious, enclosed, tunnel-vision sort of game? Why is it such a problem for a man to admit that he doesn't know? They killed him over that, they would kill us too on a bad day I'm afraid, if they knew they could get away with it. This game is insanely important to them, this ride, and it is obvious at times.

I'm not proud of this reality, I can't imagine anyone defending theirs, but people do it every day with fervor. There is something very big missing in all that. It's called introspection, self inquiry. Some people can't even grasp Eckhart Tolle and continue to believe that they are their thoughts. Why is it so hard for the masses to understand simple truths that don't attack them? Nobody is attacking them but they will fight tooth and nail to keep their ride going, stepping on others, and just being nasty towards the world they couldn't live without.

Edit: In referring to the ride, I am talking about Bill Hicks and the statement he made.

[edit on 6-2-2010 by Novise]

Then you get the people acquainting "real life and reality" to hollywood movies such as the Matrix and Avatar.

Yeah...people are waking up!

The media is an alarm clock!

reply to post by Mr Mask


I wish you had expounded a little more. I thought I saw both good and bad in what you meant by that. I think those movies appealed to a very specific demographic. The sort of people who were already thoughtful. The matrix is very philosophical, a lot of thought went into those 3 movies. Any producer could have made money on the concept, but those authors really poured their souls into the specifics. I found this very enjoyable and thought provoking:



Like Genpo Roshi says, like him or not, "All we have to do is get the wheel turning." Slow or fast at first, doesn't matter, It starts with an inch. I like him btw.

Those two movies did in fact get the wheel turning for some I'm sure. All they need is time and experience under their new worldview-perspective. Something to compare the old self to the new one, and good things can happen. Those movies are not powerful enough to keep anyone eternally brainwashed.

I think you are all examining this from too broad a view? Acquiring knowledge that awakens you to truth has many levels. My most significant level was discovering the deception. Learning that the trust held in others you once considered so reliable it needed no questioning was anything but trustful? Growing up you believed everything you learned in school, media and other sources was unquestionably true. These politicians, journalists and teachers were sharing with you the knowledge they held to guide you. As if we were all part of the same team and motivated by only the best intentions.

Discovering this source of information to be calculated programming of what they wanted you to think, most of which was half true and even false was shocking. Going from considering this undoubtedly true info as a child to finally concluding it total BS was saddening. The people I thought of as teammates are actually my enemies? They said I was free, but they were enslaving me? Wars were not fought for freedom and history was not factual?

Although this reality was depressing it was making more sense. Eventually the lies became effortless to see and the more truth I found the more truth I lost, but I was finally acquiring real knowledge.

This I consider awakening!

Bottom line is- There is no real or false or any other type of reality. There is only the reality that you accept. That is all.
Just my opinion.

Compare the belief "I am looking at what appears to be an apple" and the belief "I am looking at what appears to be an apple, but is in fact a simulated reality created by agents beyond my control."

All you actually see is what appears to be an apple. On that evidence alone, the latter belief is less probable, since for it to be true all of its components (simulated reality, etc) must be true at once. Unless you come up with some feature of the world that the simulated reality theory explains better, it is less likely on its face so you have reason to reject it in favor of the simple explanation without any frills.

Anyway, on with your example. Believing Morpheus doesn't take away reasons to believe him, since he is only referring to the simulation he took you out of. He gives you no reason to believe in further simulations, thus the argument above can be used to reject this idea.

On top of all that I think that it becomes exponentially more difficult to simulate world within world within worlds, especially with high accuracy. The "worlds within worlds" quickly becomes a computing cluster#, as the number of possible states for the lowest level of simulation explodes and you run out of computing power in the universe running all the simulations.

Originally posted by bob135
Anyway, on with your example. Believing Morpheus doesn't take away reasons to believe him, since he is only referring to the simulation he took you out of. He gives you no reason to believe in further simulations, thus the argument above can be used to reject this idea.

See, I don't agree. He has given you a reason to believe in further simulations because he convinced you that what you believe to be "real" is not always the case. If you believe that you were taken out of a simulation that you were convinced was real, then how could you not consider that there was a possibility that Morpheus' reality is not real too? To not even consider it would involve having blind faith in what Morpheus was telling you when you would have had to already demonstrate that you were not capable of having blind faith in what people tell you because if you were capable of having blind faith then you would not have believed Morpheus in the first place.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Reply to post by Derised Emanresu

 

Too bad it wasn't.

Good attempt at a deflection.

But understand you have decided what you believe is the truth of the matter so I won't argue except to say good attempt at deflection.

I find your statement moronic.
I don't need YOU to tell me that I need to understand that I have decided what the truth of the matter is. Of course I decide what I believe!

For goodness sake, say something with substance.




[edit on 7-2-2010 by Derised Emanresu]

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


I already knew that it's often the case that what I think is real actually isn't. You can come up with far more mundane examples. In poor lighting conditions you might mistake a blue shirt for a black shirt, but this doesn't really have any bearing on your other beliefs in the rest of the world. Similarly, Morpheus' statement doesn't really tell you much about your beliefs about world going forward, beyond that the one you used to be in was fake. You might consider that maybe things aren't as they seem, but where's the evidence?

I'm assuming of course that the person telling you the world is an illusion isn't just some crackpot on the street but can actually provide evidence that it is, for example by removing you from the illusory world as Morpheus did. However in the absence of further evidence why believe in a secondary illusory world>?