Challenge My View on Reality

reply to post by bsbray11


You need to have an understanding of relative and ultimate reality.
And what the clear differences are between the two.

Karma manifests over the course of lifetimes.
Fundamentalist materialists who do not have an understanding of
reincarnation may think that if it doesn't manifest in this life
but according to enlightened masters they are wrong.

Like the Buddhist sutra of the greedy queen who spent all the resources
of the kingdom on herself while most people in the kingdom suffered
and starved. When she died the King went to find an enlightened master
who had the mystical powers to see over the course of lifetimes. The
King had no real understanding of karma and thought that the queen that
he was obsessed with would re-incarnate as a human and he wanted to
find her so that he could take care of her. However according to this
sutra when the King finally found Shakyamuni Buddha and asked him to
help him find the queen's reincarnation, Buddha took him into a forest
and showed him a dung beetle and said, "That is the re-incarnation
of your selfish queen. Due to her lack of compassion she did not
have the merit (positive karmic energy) to be reborn as a human."

Surely the queen never thought the consequences of her selfishness
would result in a lower rebirth. And of course who would choose it.
Most bad karma results from people lacking compassion and lacking
awareness/cognizance to be knowledgeable about the complexities
of karma. Many materialists just go by this life and end up lost.

Originally posted by Davidius

Hi.
I will exchange beliefs and perception with you.

Thought, words, and actions create reality.

Thoughts, words and actions are aspects of reality. Reality is not dependent on thought existing, or words existing or action taking place. Otherwise you as a whole would be dependent on someone thinking you, putting you in words and acting you in order for you to be a reality.
In saying that though, thoughts, words and actions define or construct elements of our reality.
Consciousness is responsible for thought. Thought is responsible for words and actions in my reality.

The saying of "I love you" radiates the same effect if you were to write it down on a piece of paper. Think of Masaru Emoto's work on water.

I don't think it does. Lying next to my lover and whispering "I love you" in the small hours of the morning after we have spent ourselves in that most wonderful of acts, does not resonate the same as when I find a post it note on the kitchen bench that is there to remind me to pick her up at 6pm and she tells me "i love you" in a habit that signs her note off.
No words can resonate the look, or the sound of love as it is expressed to you by another.

We are all connected, one.

Of the whole, yes. But are you and I one? No, we experience the whole by being separate in our own sense, and that sense tells me we are part of a much greater whole.

There is no such thing as good and bad. Everything is relative. Anything can be both good and bad.

There is such things as good and bad. We have created these concepts, they exist. Our consciousness through thoughts, words and actions define the reality of what we know or think of as good and bad. We then apply these relative to our lives. In this way things can be good and somethings could be bad. But anything cannot be good or bad because we have the parameters for such via our conscious thought, words and actions relating to what is specifically good, and what is specifically bad. It is interesting to note that there are "golden rules" that appear throughout the ages relating to good and bad.

The life we are currently experiencing is simply an illusion created by us.

I don't believe that. Relegate everything in your life to an illusion then! Think about every aspect of you life as an illusion.

Because we are all one, we must treat others as we would ourselves.

I agree in part with your sentiments, and they are nice, but people are not simple. We must treat others as we would ourselves is an interesting comment because I see this happening all the time.
I think how imperfect we are! And how imperfectly we treat others.

What happens when people hate themselves?
What happens when people are self-destructive?
What happens when people are greedy?
What happens when people are jealous?
What happens when people feel hopeless?
What happens when people don't feel empathy?
What happens when they are afraid?
What happens when people are full of distrust?
They hate others.
They destroy others.
They don't think of others.
They are envious of others.
They don't care or feel for others.
They are fearful of others.
They are suspicious of others.
They treat others as they would themselves.

Karma takes a primary role in our life. But like I said before, its not just what we do. what we read, write, and say can cause karmic effects.

Karma is a concept. If you believe there is no good and evil, and that anything can be good, and anything can be bad. Then there is no Karma. Karma is then a just concept you use to measure what you consider good and bad. If Good and Bad are real aspects of reality, then karma is the system used in reality that measures our own good and bad and applies its justice accordingly.

Listening to music changes you in accordance to what you listen to.

What do you mean changes you?

reply to post by GrandKitaro777


The One Infinite Creator should not be termed "god" for this term entitles the creator to be a seperate shadowy entity who casts judgements on who he/she seems fit.

The bible has it's fallacy's as well and those who believe in it to there heart should understand that it has a core of truth but it's drowning in a sea of perversions.

Example: The entity God has given you free will, yet has predetermined your destiny, so this contradicts the latter.

You are the Creator, as is everything.

This is why I iterate quite often, when asked for specific information, that it pales to insignificance, just as the grass withers and dies while the love and the light of the One Infinite Creator redounds to the very infinite realms of creation forever and ever, creating and creating itself in perpetuity.

Why then be concerned with the grass that blooms, withers and dies in its season only to grow once again due to the infinite love and light of the One Creator? This is the message I bring. Each entity is only superficially that which blooms and dies. In the deeper sense there is no end to being-ness.


I ask you all brothers and sisters to look within yourself for truely you hold all answers that which you need to know. Find the love in the very present moment in every moment.

Humanity worries about this and that, what is right and what is wrong. When really Humanity just needs to stop, and feel that love, that infinite unconditional love. Breath in let the love flow in and breath out let the love flow out. Where is the love?

Namasté Namasté Namasté



[edit on 6-2-2010 by 11118]

Originally posted by DocEmrick

Karma is a foolish concept invented by Satanic religions.

...said the man who has an imaginary friend in the sky who he can talk to telepathically. The man who believes in talking burning bushes, talking snakes, zombies and tons of other fairy tales. Christians really shouldnt throw stones.

--Z

Reply to post by Davidius

I disagree on your stance we are one. Connected yes, one no. This has always seemed to me to be a over simplification that is dismissive of the fact there is a divide between group and individual and tends to encourage groupthink and hivemind mentality.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by DocEmrick
I, also, cannot challenge your view of reality because it is what I do believe. However, to play Devil's Advocate, let me throw a few ideas your way.

Thought, words, and action were defined by God and His Son Jesus Christ. Without the Lord, we would not contain emotions or even exist.

We are each unique snowflakes. God created us individually to explore the world in which He created. Adam & Eve were two of His first experiments. Dinosaurs were put here by Satan to fool is into not believing the Lord's Word.

There is good an evil. God is good, and Satan is evil. God created Satan to counter true love.

The universe was created by the Lord. It is here for us to explore and conquer. There are no such things as aliens, but there are lifeforms that we are meant to destroy with nuclear weapons, and George Bush's grandson as our President.

God did not intend us to treat others as equals. Christians are supreme in every right, because Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Anyone who doesn't believe this will burn in a fiery abyss for the rest of eternity.

Karma is a foolish concept invented by Satanic religions. There is no karma. As long as we serve God and His Son, Jesus Christ, we may ascend into clouds that are just beyond our atmosphere.

While music is an art-form that is definitely powerful, as long as the music supports the true Word of God and his Son, Jesus Christ, it can change us to be all powerful and all knowing.

[edit on 5-2-2010 by DocEmrick]

[edit on 5-2-2010 by DocEmrick]

I love it! Thanks. I needed a good laugh this morning. This is pure gold.

Originally posted by Davidius
We are all connected, one.

What do you mean by this, where exactly are we connected? By one consciousness? The collective consciousness of all living beings would create perfection - there can be nothing more than this. Therefore, is this what you consider God? Since there can be nothing more perfect than this?

There is no such thing as good and bad. Everything is relative. Anything can be both good and bad.

With this I agree, but not only this. Everything is relative in the expanse of our physical plane. Consider for example our size. The universe is infinite, how can anything in the universe, therefore, have a size? Therefore, size is relative. What is living, and what is dead? This is, once again relative. Do we even exist? Our existence is relative. Nothing is concrete, everything is relative in our lives.

The life we are currently experiencing is simply an illusion created by us.

This should be a given, as who says I exist, or that you exist for me, OP? Perhaps everybody and everything is a creation of my subconsciousness to provide the ultimate physical experience. Perhaps this "life" and existence is just a virtual world, a playground or amusement park for our higher conscious self?

Because we are all one, we must treat others as we would ourselves.

I do not agree with this, because most things which happen on this physical plane are minute in comparison to that which could happen on the consciousness plane (I do not say spiritual or soul due to connections to religion or anything else, I'm not a believer). We must seek our own interest, altruism is an unfortunate creation of this planet for reasons of control and authority.

Karma takes a primary role in our life. But like I said before, its not just what we do. what we read, write, and say can cause karmic effects. Listening to music changes you in accordance to what you listen to.

Does this fit in with the fact that DNA may be altered by language? I believe so, OP.

This is a good post, S&F, and thank you for sharing!

Hi Davidius

Originally posted by Davidius
For the sake of developing spiritual wisdom, I ask you to read my views on reality and the universe. If you find something that does "ring" within you, please reply with your reason why and your alternative. (I think the sky is blue but you think its dark blue for example)

Thought, words, and actions create reality. The saying of "I love you" radiates the same effect if you were to write it down on a piece of paper. Think of Masaru Emoto's work on water.

everything carries energy, like attracts like and so kind thoughts, words and actions will bring harmonious results. Intent is important, so writing the words "I love you" with hurtful intent carries negative energy. (I love Masaru Emoto's work, it has proved very important for me)

We are all connected, one.

this is a big question. Yes, I believe that we are all connected, In a sense we are all one in that we all reside in the universe and as such, we are all constituent components of the universe. What's more though, is that we are all of this planet (in this life) and we must consider that we are hurling through the galaxy together as well. In a less materialistic sense, yes, I believe that the spirit, or soul beyond this life is connected, though not as ONE, but rather as ALL

There is no such thing as good and bad. Everything is relative. Anything can be both good and bad.

everything just is, you place qualifiers such as good or bad on circumstance based upon your own judgement.

The life we are currently experiencing is simply an illusion created by us.

I think that this life is real though only one life of very many. We did not create it, perhaps we chose it though.

Because we are all one, we must treat others as we would ourselves.

good advice, not very practical though. I have my own mission in this life, you have yours, If I treated you like I treated myself I may infringe on your free will. We should treat each other with kindness, this means allowing everyone to stumble and falter if they have a lesson to learn.

Karma takes a primary role in our life. But like I said before, its not just what we do. what we read, write, and say can cause karmic effects.

you reap what you sow and intent is everything

Listening to music changes you in accordance to what you listen to.

just think how much energy is in all of the different frequencies of music! Not to mention the intent that goes into creating it, so, yes.

The above is not truth. I say what I say based on experience.

Thanks Davidious, this is an interesting excercise



Those are just some points for now. If you would like for me to elaborate please ask. If you want my opinion on something, I will be more than glad to give it.

[edit on 6-2-2010 by Tamale_214]

[edit on 6-2-2010 by Tamale_214]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Davidius

There is no such thing as good and bad. Everything is relative. Anything can be both good and bad.

This is the only thing that I can really say I disagree with. Actually,I think relativism is part of what is wrong with the world today. For example, you say that everything is relative. In other words you can get good or bad out of anything. Ok, tell me one good thing about something like this: Turkish girl is buried alive for talking to boys

Tell, me one good thing about that. Just one.

Here is the best challenge to the OP. I also agreed with everything he wrote. It's a very good point you make and I'm not sure I have it in me to tackle this, but I'll try. I hope the OP and others tackle it as well. Good to see you Speaker! It's been a while.

Why do bad things happen to good people? Ultimately bad and good are labels we put on a situation. From a dualistic perspective, that is definetly a bad thing that happened there. But ultimately good and bad are just labels, words made up.

We have to be careful not to get caught up in the horrific nature of what happened. You bring it up because there is not one good thing about it. I think the best we can do on these difficult issues and topics is discuss, bring awareness into them, it's our only hope.

Most bad things are things we survive and can learn from, but obviously that girl will not. Spiritually perhaps she will, afterlife, or merely conciousness rejoining God, expanding with no longer a mind or body to hold it in and keep it in one place.

Do all we can to make the world safer and better, or at least try not to cause more problems, but we are not to blame for it's problems.

We are only aware of the good because we know the bad. Only aware of what's bad because we know what's good. It really is a sideshow, good and bad. It's not the point. You will be a lot closer to that person who was buried alive without attaching good and bad to the situation. And we have learned from it I suppose. What have we learned? Why put it into words this time?

That's just what that does though, I for one don't think it's truly necessary, all the suffering and pain and tragedy... But I see what it does for us in terms of experience, learning, and conciousness... We are out of control, free will, huge consequences and heavy prices to pay for it.

Originally posted by DocEmrick
Karma is a foolish concept invented by Satanic religions.
[edit on 5-2-2010 by DocEmrick]

So, you don't believe that "You reap what you sow?" Wow....That is all karma is. If you're going to disregard something, at least know what it is you are disregarding. You obviously do not.

[edit on 6-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by Novise


Hello.... Well, all of that may be true. However, what I see happening, as far as trend are concerned, is rather disturbing to me.

I mean, it seems to me that people are moving further from any sense of responsibility, to a "It wasn't me," mentality. I don't grasp that concept at all.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by Novise

 

Hello.... Well, all of that may be true. However, what I see happening, as far as trend are concerned, is rather disturbing to me.

I mean, it seems to me that people are moving further from any sense of responsibility, to a "It wasn't me," mentality. I don't grasp that concept at all.

Then be sure to not confuse the what with the how. There are selfish and thoughtless reasons people say "It wasn't me!" It's not my fault. But there are very philosophical and deep understandings that reach the same conclusion.

The people that you have a problem with are the first example, the ignorant who would bury a child alive... I don't really like them either. You care, that's what this all means. As much as people might try to say you don't, or anyone doesn't, you do.

reply to post by Novise


The bad teaches you.

There is no right or wrong, good or bad. There only is. All is forgiven and all is beautiful no matter how evil/morbid/malicious something may be, it is only here to teach you. Everything has a purpose, all is how it should be.

Do not look outward to a supreme entity for forgiveness or judgements, instead look inwards for answers. You are but creators in a classroom, this incarnation was chosen by each of you.


I ask you my friends, where is the love in this present moment, and the next and the next. Be a beacon of love/light and light/love let it channel through you, inwards and outwards. Ever heard of an angel in disguise? You are all in disguise, are you angels?

Next time you see something disturbing on T.V. instead of thinking, "They need to pay!" or "How could things like this exist?", ask yourself "Do I wish for me to be that way?" Each bit of evil only is to teach what is good and nothing else.

Forgiveness is key, forgive and love other selves just as you'd love yourself.

[edit on 6-2-2010 by 11118]

reply to post by 11118


I'm with you on that as far as what it teaches us and shows us. It's just that oftentimes people say, "I think I'm smart enough to figureit out." And those people are most often more successful than those who want you to show them everything. Maybe with a few examples, a rudimentary understanding of history. Why does it have to be hammered in so?

As a creator I think I am smart enough to figure this out and I don't need to see earthquakes and peoples house burn down, people die of cancer at 21, etc. to understand the yin and the yang.

It is a very simple concept and no matter how true or how much this way of being, or this state of life teaches me, it is unnecessary. Fruitful yes, powerful yes, compelling yes, but necessary? No!

Time is an illusion, there is no need for cramming, or taking a crash course.

[edit on 6-2-2010 by Novise]

reply to post by Novise


Novise, look inwards, for there are lessons to be learned.

What do you find yourself coming across over and over again?

Do you find patience an issue? Do you find getting angry an issue? Etc.. these are just examples not something that I believe you need to work on or anything like that. These type of issues will continue over and over again until you learn then lesson then they will appear less and be less difficult each time.

This incarnation was planned but it's a very very flexible plan based on the most important thing of all creation, Free Will.

Maybe you have learned the yin and the yang, but the lessons you have learned will still appear to you, but because you have learned them they will not seem as difficult as to someone who has not. Does this make sense?

If you are standing in a store all alone, nobody around, and you see something you want but do not have the money do you steal it or do you know it's wrong? It may seem difficult to refuse to steal it for it could be the first time learning such lesson, or you may not even think it for you have already learned the lesson in this or a previous incarnational experience.

Your unconcious mind knows why you are here, so why not ask yourself?

Truely though my brother/sister, love is the answer. It may be hard when you are grumpy or mad or maybe you don't like someone, but just for one day be joyous and loving to all no matter what, you will see that love that you express outwards reflects inwards.

reply to post by 11118


Yes it makes sense, because the more you know the more angles you have to answer a discussion question. If you are only taught one thing, "stealing is wrong" perhaps... Then the question is very easy to answer, you don't steal. However with life experience you find that it depends on the situation. Eventually you can approach the discussion questions from multiple perspectives, able to give an A answer from most all of them...

I continue to learn, I continue to live, it truly is an act of faith and perhaps duty at this point but that should be much easier to count on than purpose. And it is.

The One Infinite Creator should not be termed "god" for this term entitles the creator to be a seperate shadowy entity who casts judgements on who he/she seems fit.

I endeavor to always avoid using the term "God" because of flawed implication that proceed it. Nevertheless, this is a powerful term that has and will continue to fool many.

The bible has it's fallacy's as well and those who believe in it to there heart should understand that it has a core of truth but it's drowning in a sea of perversions.

The best way to confuse a mass is to mix truth with lies.

Example: The entity God has given you free will, yet has predetermined your destiny, so this contradicts the latter.

Freewill is a profound concept, I was contemplating a day ago on the potential impossibility of seeing in the future even on God standards. But I contemplated longer and never came to a concrete conclusion. I always wonder if there's a place where the past/future/present exist simultaneously, but alas I'm completely undecided on that subject.

Freewill has shown to be a unpredictable concept, you can think of an orange and immediately proceed to think of something off the wall, such as a dancing spaghetti monster under the bed waiting to scare charlie. Freewill can generate any thought or action randomly and randomness on freewill level can't be predicted, thus I hold the belief seeing into the future is a fictitious concept within the physical universe even for God.

(Note: I don't think randomness is a good term to label freewill, but it's a close term to relate to freewill.)

The future isn't written in stone, it's pure potentiality waiting to become. Tapping this potentiality requires a conscious freewill. There are infinite versions reality can play out.

Example: Charlie is coming home from school, his mother with her subjective freewill decided to sit a orange, apple, and a banana on the counter. Charlie therefore has the potential to choose 1 of the three. The fate of the fruits is pure potentiality, they could be eaten or they could be stored for later. It's up to the freewill choice of charlie. Luckily for the fruits, charlie decided to not look both ways before crossing the street and a reckless driver hit him. Charlie is in the hospital and the version reality of charlie choosing one or storing the fruits at that time ceases to exist because of a reckless driver freewill to act reckless.

There was never a definite future, always potentiality. In order to see into the future the future has to be definite, which is clearly not the case.







[edit on 7-2-2010 by GrandKitaro777]

[edit on 7-2-2010 by GrandKitaro777]

[edit on 7-2-2010 by GrandKitaro777]

Originally posted by Novise
reply to post by 11118

 

I continue to learn, I continue to live, it truly is an act of faith and perhaps duty

isn't it wonderful when you learn a lesson from a few words from a stranger?

reply to post by Tamale_214


Oh it is much better to learn from a stranger than from a friend or family member. Much less embarrassing, it's less personal, easier. You aren't too attached either, nor is there a reason for competition, especially if you will never see that stranger again. But, either way it is nice.

What do you mean by this, where exactly are we connected? By one consciousness? The collective consciousness of all living beings would create perfection - there can be nothing more than this. Therefore, is this what you consider God? Since there can be nothing more perfect than this?

Yep.

This should be a given, as who says I exist, or that you exist for me, OP? Perhaps everybody and everything is a creation of my subconsciousness to provide the ultimate physical experience. Perhaps this "life" and existence is just a virtual world, a playground or amusement park for our higher conscious self?

Ah, the who is REALLY observing paradox. Are we ALL plugged into the same Matrix? Or do we experience a reality that is our very own? A network of computers (consciousnesses) or one super computer (you). Or none at all?

Here is the best challenge to the OP.

I am not trying to challenge or debate anything, just want a different perspective on things.

As for the argument on the existence of Good and Bad, what exactly is GOOD and BAD? I think it would be easier to understand if we call our experiences Positive and Negative.

Positive and Negative is neither good or bad. Nothing more than a way to explain two opposite forces.

But honestly, the more I question and seek answers, the farther I feel from the truth. Something tells me that perhaps it is not meant for us to understand those nagging questions we all have. Or perhaps we are asking the wrong questions?