New Earthquake 'Swarm' Hits North of San Francisco, page 1
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Topic started on 5-2-2010 @ 04:25 AM by berkeleygal
Hi all. I wanted to start my very first thread here on ATS :-)
I have been watching this swarm at The Geysers for over a week now and here is an article I just found.
www.fourwinds10.com...
Dunno what's gonna happen next - as long as the cats are calm I am OK :-)
Peace out from early morning berzerkeley!
I have been watching this swarm at The Geysers for over a week now and here is an article I just found.
www.fourwinds10.com...
The Geysers is a geothermal area in many ways like Yellowstone. As long as seismic and magma flow events remain nominal, it can be a great source of energy. However, if there is an escalation of earthquake activity, two possible hazards could occur. 1) Larger seismic events could 'trigger' surrounding tectonic fault lines creating the possibility of serious events. No place in the North American continent is more vulnerable to this scenario than California. 2) Magma reaches the surface destroying equipment and terrain, and no doubt other unexpected consequences.
Dunno what's gonna happen next - as long as the cats are calm I am OK :-)
Peace out from early morning berzerkeley!
reply posted on 5-2-2010 @ 04:59 AM by ANNED
This swarm at the Geysers like the activity at Coso geothermals and at the geothermals at the salton sea are all man made by the geothermal power
plants at each place.
en.wikipedia.org...
scienceblogs.com...
alternative-energy-news.us...
So much for safe green alternative energy.
www.treehugger.com...
keep it up and Calif will fall into the sea from there geothermal power plants.
[edit on 5-2-2010 by ANNED]
[edit on 5-2-2010 by ANNED]
en.wikipedia.org...
scienceblogs.com...
alternative-energy-news.us...
So much for safe green alternative energy.
www.treehugger.com...
keep it up and Calif will fall into the sea from there geothermal power plants.
[edit on 5-2-2010 by ANNED]
[edit on 5-2-2010 by ANNED]
reply posted on 5-2-2010 @ 05:07 AM by JustMike
Hi berkeleygal, I saw your reply on the Yellowstone thread so thought I'd drop by.
Over on the thread entitled An Experiment in Alternative Methods of Earthquake Prediction, we've been keeping an eye on California and surrounding areas like Oregon, Washington, Nevada and even over to YS and Utah for some time. I've linked in to the latest page but if you'd like to get a lot of info and good data without too much hype, then it's well worth going through the whole thing. It's not a "gloom and doom" thread (as there are enough of those here already!), rather it's a place where we make predictions and record results, keep tabs on what's happening and also look at the data in more detail and analyze what it may mean.
In short, the Geysers area is quite active and has been for a long time and is prone to swarms, some of which we felt may have been volcanic in nature. (You doubtless know that but some readers might not.) However, it's not really possible to establish any quantitative link between what happens there and events in Yellowstone. They could be connected but I think it's more likely that movements in the Cascadia fault provide some impetus for increasing activity around the Geyers. Certainly there are possible causative links there with the fault systems that are in place.
Personally I have my doubts that this new swarm indicates anything too ominous is coming up soon, but the trouble is we have no way of knowing for sure. It would be great if we did.
Major seismic activity in Cal is a real puzzle to work out. Even the San Andreas fault is not just one fault at all; it's a whole series of them and sometimes it's the seemingly minor ones that suddenly become active. The same goes for the offshore quakes. The "San Andreas" actually runs out under the sea and effectively links into the troublesome Cascadia zone, leading me to think that when the subduction fault along the eastern side of the Juan de Fuca plate finally lets go, it could trigger a sequence of events in other places within that region.
Notice I said could. It's by no means a given, but all the same we have to try and consider the various possibilities in a reasoned way. For now, keeping an eye of the behaviour of animals is as good an idea as any. For example, I'm curious about those giant squid, and even more curious about the sea lions that decided to vacant the SF region -- with some of the tagged ones being found down around Monterey. Why'd they leave? I suspect it could be important, but we just don't know yet.
Best regards,
Mike
Over on the thread entitled An Experiment in Alternative Methods of Earthquake Prediction, we've been keeping an eye on California and surrounding areas like Oregon, Washington, Nevada and even over to YS and Utah for some time. I've linked in to the latest page but if you'd like to get a lot of info and good data without too much hype, then it's well worth going through the whole thing. It's not a "gloom and doom" thread (as there are enough of those here already!), rather it's a place where we make predictions and record results, keep tabs on what's happening and also look at the data in more detail and analyze what it may mean.
In short, the Geysers area is quite active and has been for a long time and is prone to swarms, some of which we felt may have been volcanic in nature. (You doubtless know that but some readers might not.) However, it's not really possible to establish any quantitative link between what happens there and events in Yellowstone. They could be connected but I think it's more likely that movements in the Cascadia fault provide some impetus for increasing activity around the Geyers. Certainly there are possible causative links there with the fault systems that are in place.
Personally I have my doubts that this new swarm indicates anything too ominous is coming up soon, but the trouble is we have no way of knowing for sure. It would be great if we did.
Major seismic activity in Cal is a real puzzle to work out. Even the San Andreas fault is not just one fault at all; it's a whole series of them and sometimes it's the seemingly minor ones that suddenly become active. The same goes for the offshore quakes. The "San Andreas" actually runs out under the sea and effectively links into the troublesome Cascadia zone, leading me to think that when the subduction fault along the eastern side of the Juan de Fuca plate finally lets go, it could trigger a sequence of events in other places within that region.
Notice I said could. It's by no means a given, but all the same we have to try and consider the various possibilities in a reasoned way. For now, keeping an eye of the behaviour of animals is as good an idea as any. For example, I'm curious about those giant squid, and even more curious about the sea lions that decided to vacant the SF region -- with some of the tagged ones being found down around Monterey. Why'd they leave? I suspect it could be important, but we just don't know yet.
Best regards,
Mike
reply posted on 5-2-2010 @ 05:16 AM by JustMike
reply to post by ANNED
You've posted some interesting information, which is worthy of further study to determine its veracity. It could be that those plants have a measurable effect on the area's seismicity. Hard to understand why or how they would produce erratic and unpredictable swarms, but all the same it's worth considering.
However, while you apparently see this as a laughing matter I doubt that our OP does, and neither do I. In the event of any major quake, people's lives and property will be endangered. It's a matter of serious concern and I don't see anything funny about it.
Mike
You've posted some interesting information, which is worthy of further study to determine its veracity. It could be that those plants have a measurable effect on the area's seismicity. Hard to understand why or how they would produce erratic and unpredictable swarms, but all the same it's worth considering.
However, while you apparently see this as a laughing matter I doubt that our OP does, and neither do I. In the event of any major quake, people's lives and property will be endangered. It's a matter of serious concern and I don't see anything funny about it.
Mike
reply posted on 5-2-2010 @ 05:29 AM by berkeleygal
reply to post by JustMike
Welcome to my thread ;-) Yeah, when the sea lions left I thought to myself, something is up with that! I saw the giant squidly thing today. Wierd!
I will check out that thread.
Welcome to my thread ;-) Yeah, when the sea lions left I thought to myself, something is up with that! I saw the giant squidly thing today. Wierd!
I will check out that thread.
reply posted on 5-2-2010 @ 05:29 AM by ANNED
Originally posted by JustMike
reply to post by ANNED
However, while you apparently see this as a laughing matter I doubt that our OP does, and neither do I. In the event of any major quake, people's lives and property will be endangered. It's a matter of serious concern and I don't see anything funny about it.
Mike
I have to laugh about the Coso Geothermal power plants as i live only 25 miles away and i helped build them only to find out what problems they are causing.
This was after the environmentalist told everyone how green and earth friendly they were.
Its another case of never trust a environmentalist and there brilliant ideas.
First it was ban the nukes so now we burn coal only to find out that the nuke would have been better.
Then it was wind and solar only to find out there is no way that will work without building 100s of sq miles of wind and solar that still will not power the US.
Then they bring up wave power yet they will block any project to build wave power plants along the coast.
I now believe the environmentalist must be Schizophrenic because they now claim to have so many great ideas but at the same time block any projects using those ideas.
[edit on 5-2-2010 by ANNED]
reply posted on 5-2-2010 @ 05:41 AM by berkeleygal
reply to post by calstorm
Well, quake activity in my immediate area has been real quiet lately. Had a small one the other day, didn't feel a thing. I missed out on the Loma Prieta (was in Denver) and so I have not felt a really big quake yet. I have felt mild ones, shook house and all that, and several times have even heard sub harmonics mere seconds before I felt the quakes. My family back in West Virginia think I am nuts to be living here LOL!
Anyway, I know there will be a big one sooner or later, the later the better because this house is full of glass objects and breakable crap and i am not ready.. Also need to get my survival gear together and extra supplies for cats. If house is uninhabitable, I have a 10x10 foot rubber maid shed I can live in hehe.
I am rambling, good gravy its almost 4 am - can you say insomniac?
[edit on 5-2-2010 by berkeleygal]
Well, quake activity in my immediate area has been real quiet lately. Had a small one the other day, didn't feel a thing. I missed out on the Loma Prieta (was in Denver) and so I have not felt a really big quake yet. I have felt mild ones, shook house and all that, and several times have even heard sub harmonics mere seconds before I felt the quakes. My family back in West Virginia think I am nuts to be living here LOL!
Anyway, I know there will be a big one sooner or later, the later the better because this house is full of glass objects and breakable crap and i am not ready.. Also need to get my survival gear together and extra supplies for cats. If house is uninhabitable, I have a 10x10 foot rubber maid shed I can live in hehe.
I am rambling, good gravy its almost 4 am - can you say insomniac?
[edit on 5-2-2010 by berkeleygal]
reply posted on 5-2-2010 @ 05:45 AM by JustMike
reply to post by calstorm
I follow what you are saying, but at the same time I think the possibility of large quakes is something that many people have a right get worked up about. I don't see any hysteria in this thread, just discussion about possibilities. The fact also remains that major earthquakes have been responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths just in the past decade alone and overall, have been far more deadly than tornadoes or even hurricanes in the same period. Also, as large quakes can often cause more infrastructural damage than tornadoes/hurricanes, because besides collapsing large buildings and even overpasses, they can damage what is below ground as well, such as water mains, gas mains, undergrounded power lines, tunnels and subway systems, it is well worth considering their potential effects in any given region.
To cite an example of the potential for destruction in the PNW, the stuck region of the Juan de Fuca plate (along its eastern side) is a cause of concern, not only for "ordinary" people but for scientists as well. It is one of the few regions in the world that are capable of producing magnitude 9-plus quakes, and the last one (at an estimated mag 9.3) was 310 years ago. This area along the PNW is a very complex region, due to the interactions of the Pacific Plate, the Juan de Fuca Plate, and the North American Plate. It is acknowledged by experts that it will let go again eventually and when it does, the effects could be far more catastrophic for coastal regions that the so-called "big one" that will doubtless happen again on the San Andreas one of these days.
How you can be so flippant and facetious about such serious and important matters is utterly beyond my comprehension. Would you prefer that we behave like sheep and pretend that nothing will ever happen? Are you against us even discussing what are scientifically known to be serious threats to human life?
I disagree with your statement that most quakes are caused by volcanoes. From all that I've read, most of the seismic activity in the PNW is resultant from these major plates' relative movements and the resultant stresses they produce, not from volcanic effects. The vast majority of the seismograph traces clearly show normal quake movement, not volcanic activity. At least, that is the prevailing expert opinion which is supported by sites such as the one operated by USGS, and also the NEIC. If you have data that indicates the opposite point of view and which therefore backs up your statement, please post some references so we can improve our knowledge.
Many thanks,
Mike
[edit on 5/2/10 by JustMike]
I follow what you are saying, but at the same time I think the possibility of large quakes is something that many people have a right get worked up about. I don't see any hysteria in this thread, just discussion about possibilities. The fact also remains that major earthquakes have been responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths just in the past decade alone and overall, have been far more deadly than tornadoes or even hurricanes in the same period. Also, as large quakes can often cause more infrastructural damage than tornadoes/hurricanes, because besides collapsing large buildings and even overpasses, they can damage what is below ground as well, such as water mains, gas mains, undergrounded power lines, tunnels and subway systems, it is well worth considering their potential effects in any given region.
To cite an example of the potential for destruction in the PNW, the stuck region of the Juan de Fuca plate (along its eastern side) is a cause of concern, not only for "ordinary" people but for scientists as well. It is one of the few regions in the world that are capable of producing magnitude 9-plus quakes, and the last one (at an estimated mag 9.3) was 310 years ago. This area along the PNW is a very complex region, due to the interactions of the Pacific Plate, the Juan de Fuca Plate, and the North American Plate. It is acknowledged by experts that it will let go again eventually and when it does, the effects could be far more catastrophic for coastal regions that the so-called "big one" that will doubtless happen again on the San Andreas one of these days.
How you can be so flippant and facetious about such serious and important matters is utterly beyond my comprehension. Would you prefer that we behave like sheep and pretend that nothing will ever happen? Are you against us even discussing what are scientifically known to be serious threats to human life?
I disagree with your statement that most quakes are caused by volcanoes. From all that I've read, most of the seismic activity in the PNW is resultant from these major plates' relative movements and the resultant stresses they produce, not from volcanic effects. The vast majority of the seismograph traces clearly show normal quake movement, not volcanic activity. At least, that is the prevailing expert opinion which is supported by sites such as the one operated by USGS, and also the NEIC. If you have data that indicates the opposite point of view and which therefore backs up your statement, please post some references so we can improve our knowledge.
Many thanks,
Mike
[edit on 5/2/10 by JustMike]
reply posted on 5-2-2010 @ 05:49 AM by JustMike
reply to post by ANNED
Ah, thanks for the clarification. In that case I must offer my sincere apologies to you. I didn't realize that your laughter was not of the jesting kind, but rather the "OMG they've screwed up again" kind.
Now, a serious query, which I suspect you might be able to help out with. Is there any reason that you know of why the swarms are so erratic? Do they always tie in to some new activity such as drilling or flushing (right term?) in or around those plants, or are they anomalous and not therefore not fully explained?
Many thanks,
Mike
EDIT to add:
Forgive my asking but I've never heard of a "rubber maid" shed. Is this an Americanism? I'm in Europe and it's a new one to me so I'd love to know what it means.
There've been more nights than I can count when I've been on ATS in the wee hours... Time well spent, for the most part.
Mike
[edit on 5/2/10 by JustMike]
Ah, thanks for the clarification. In that case I must offer my sincere apologies to you. I didn't realize that your laughter was not of the jesting kind, but rather the "OMG they've screwed up again" kind.
Now, a serious query, which I suspect you might be able to help out with. Is there any reason that you know of why the swarms are so erratic? Do they always tie in to some new activity such as drilling or flushing (right term?) in or around those plants, or are they anomalous and not therefore not fully explained?
Many thanks,
Mike
EDIT to add:
Originally posted by berkeleygal
If house is uninhabitable, I have a 10x10 foot rubber maid shed I can live in hehe.
I am rambling, good gravy its almost 4 am - can you say insomniac?
[edit on 5-2-2010 by berkeleygal]
Forgive my asking but I've never heard of a "rubber maid" shed. Is this an Americanism? I'm in Europe and it's a new one to me so I'd love to know what it means.
There've been more nights than I can count when I've been on ATS in the wee hours... Time well spent, for the most part.
Mike
[edit on 5/2/10 by JustMike]
reply posted on 5-2-2010 @ 06:12 AM by calstorm
reply to post by JustMike
First of all I didn't say most, I said many. Please do not distort my words.
Yes I believe people are over reacting. Perhaps being a california native and having experienced 5 pointers and higher my opinion on what a large quake is tends to differ from people who have never experienced an earthquake. A 5-6 point earthquake in my opinion can be quit enjoyable. A little exciting but nothing to fear if you have taken the precautions that everyone in an earthquake zone should take.
Yes I think people are over reacting but then I kinda get the same way when I hear about tornadoes. I have never experienced one and view them as way more serious than an earthquake.
First of all I didn't say most, I said many. Please do not distort my words.
Yes I believe people are over reacting. Perhaps being a california native and having experienced 5 pointers and higher my opinion on what a large quake is tends to differ from people who have never experienced an earthquake. A 5-6 point earthquake in my opinion can be quit enjoyable. A little exciting but nothing to fear if you have taken the precautions that everyone in an earthquake zone should take.
Yes I think people are over reacting but then I kinda get the same way when I hear about tornadoes. I have never experienced one and view them as way more serious than an earthquake.
reply posted on 5-2-2010 @ 06:48 AM by JustMike
reply to post by calstorm
Very well, then... so you said "many" and not "most", in reference to "these quakes". I take it that "many" means a fairly large number. Am I right in assuming you mean quakes in California?
Could you then provide some data or references that say many of these quakes are related to volcanic activity rather than fault activity?
I still feel that their potential seriousness is a matter worthy of consideration. But of course, you are entitled to your opinion, and as you state that "people" (us on this thread, I suppose?) are over-reacting then perhaps it is a waste of your energies to participate in the discussion. You could just leave us to our over-reactions.
You mention that you live in California. So does the OP... So apparently you have different perspectives on the relative importance of earthquakes.
Regarding tornadoes, people in Haiti and other survivors of major quakes might suggest that while circular storms and such weather systems are obviously dangerous and can be deadly, quakes are often more so. The Haitians were hit by several hurricanes in the year before the quake and those didn't cause tens of thousands of deaths. Even so, I certainly wouldn't wish either of them on your or anyone else.
In my own responses on this thread that deal with the current situation I have tried to adopt a reasoned approach based upon what is known. That's why I challenged your statements. If you have data and references to back up what you say then by all means present it.
Regards,
Mike
[edit on 5/2/10 by JustMike]
Very well, then... so you said "many" and not "most", in reference to "these quakes". I take it that "many" means a fairly large number. Am I right in assuming you mean quakes in California?
Could you then provide some data or references that say many of these quakes are related to volcanic activity rather than fault activity?
I still feel that their potential seriousness is a matter worthy of consideration. But of course, you are entitled to your opinion, and as you state that "people" (us on this thread, I suppose?) are over-reacting then perhaps it is a waste of your energies to participate in the discussion. You could just leave us to our over-reactions.
You mention that you live in California. So does the OP... So apparently you have different perspectives on the relative importance of earthquakes.
Regarding tornadoes, people in Haiti and other survivors of major quakes might suggest that while circular storms and such weather systems are obviously dangerous and can be deadly, quakes are often more so. The Haitians were hit by several hurricanes in the year before the quake and those didn't cause tens of thousands of deaths. Even so, I certainly wouldn't wish either of them on your or anyone else.
In my own responses on this thread that deal with the current situation I have tried to adopt a reasoned approach based upon what is known. That's why I challenged your statements. If you have data and references to back up what you say then by all means present it.
Regards,
Mike
[edit on 5/2/10 by JustMike]
reply posted on 5-2-2010 @ 07:36 AM by berkeleygal
why is this blank?
quake.usgs.gov...
sun is coming up soon, must hide from sun *grin*
Happy Friday!
quake.usgs.gov...
this one is off the chart - seismic station near eureka
[edit on 5-2-2010 by berkeleygal]
quake.usgs.gov...
sun is coming up soon, must hide from sun *grin*
Happy Friday!
quake.usgs.gov...
this one is off the chart - seismic station near eureka
[edit on 5-2-2010 by berkeleygal]
reply posted on 5-2-2010 @ 08:36 AM by JustMike
reply to post by berkeleygal
Hi berkeleygal and Happy Friday! (It's after 3 pm here...
)
Those two stations... The first one (GCVB -- Cloverdale) is not just blank (but yeah, it is blank), it looks like it's simply not running at all. You see this sometimes. Could be it got knocked out of whack back on Jan 10 and they haven't had a techie out there to fix it yet. Or it could be just a failure in the data feed. We see this sort of thing quite a lot with the Yellowstone webicorders. They go off line, they come back on line, go off line again...
EDIT: Actually if you check out the TAKO, TOLO and HEBO webi stations, they all went offline after that big jolt yesterday. These machines are delicate and a fair-sized quake can knock them out. (Link further below in this post for anyone who wants to take a look at them.) [End of edit.]
As for the other one (KCT -- CapeTown), if it's a bit windy round there, that could be enough to mess it up. (Again, we see these "Jackson Pollock" type pages on some webicorders in Yellowstone when the wind is up. Strong winds can cause minor amounts of ground movement and the machines pick it up.) Trouble is, the wind can disguise any actual seismic traces and make them hard to pick out.
That KCT is right on the coast, according to their map. What's the wind direction there at this time of day as a rule? If it's blowing on-shore then that could be the main factor. If the wind drops off and the trace quietens down then you can be fairly certain that wind was the culprit and it wasn't that the region went wild with seismic activity. Several of the other webis show a similarly messy trace, especially KBO, KEB and KMPB, and those three are all near-coastal. However, KHBB (for example), which a bit further inland from them, shows a cleaner trace.
Actually, if you look at KHBB right now, the trace is a bit creepy as they look like harmonics. So do some of the others, actually. That doesn't mean they are harmonics, though. But it's suggestive of them.
For anyone who's interested, here's a link to the NTHMP drum recorder main page. You can select the various webicorders from there and see what they're picking up. To choose different dates, go to this page to select a date and a station that you're interested in.
Mike
[edit on 5/2/10 by JustMike]
Hi berkeleygal and Happy Friday! (It's after 3 pm here...
) Those two stations... The first one (GCVB -- Cloverdale) is not just blank (but yeah, it is blank), it looks like it's simply not running at all. You see this sometimes. Could be it got knocked out of whack back on Jan 10 and they haven't had a techie out there to fix it yet. Or it could be just a failure in the data feed. We see this sort of thing quite a lot with the Yellowstone webicorders. They go off line, they come back on line, go off line again...
EDIT: Actually if you check out the TAKO, TOLO and HEBO webi stations, they all went offline after that big jolt yesterday. These machines are delicate and a fair-sized quake can knock them out. (Link further below in this post for anyone who wants to take a look at them.) [End of edit.]
As for the other one (KCT -- CapeTown), if it's a bit windy round there, that could be enough to mess it up. (Again, we see these "Jackson Pollock" type pages on some webicorders in Yellowstone when the wind is up. Strong winds can cause minor amounts of ground movement and the machines pick it up.) Trouble is, the wind can disguise any actual seismic traces and make them hard to pick out.
That KCT is right on the coast, according to their map. What's the wind direction there at this time of day as a rule? If it's blowing on-shore then that could be the main factor. If the wind drops off and the trace quietens down then you can be fairly certain that wind was the culprit and it wasn't that the region went wild with seismic activity. Several of the other webis show a similarly messy trace, especially KBO, KEB and KMPB, and those three are all near-coastal. However, KHBB (for example), which a bit further inland from them, shows a cleaner trace.
Actually, if you look at KHBB right now, the trace is a bit creepy as they look like harmonics. So do some of the others, actually. That doesn't mean they are harmonics, though. But it's suggestive of them.
For anyone who's interested, here's a link to the NTHMP drum recorder main page. You can select the various webicorders from there and see what they're picking up. To choose different dates, go to this page to select a date and a station that you're interested in.
Mike
[edit on 5/2/10 by JustMike]
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