Christians Desecrate Wiccan Religious Site at Air Force Academy

As a veteran and a Asatruar I find what has been done to the Sacred area that was set aside for the Wiccans offensive. Once that area was set aside it should have been treated with the respect of any other religious building at the Air Force Academy and it should have been afforded the same protections as far as security patrols that the rest of the Academy buildings enjoys.
I was in the military before Wiccans and Neopagans were even recognized as a faith as such I served for 13 plus years with no religious prefernce on my dog tags, which means had I died I would most likely have been buried with a Christain ceremony.
One of the reasons I find this so offensive is that thru the history of the early Christian/Catholic Church in Europe it was common practice to destroy the sacred places of the Pagans of whatever stripe and then build Christian/Catholic Churches on these sites.
Not all worship performed by Pagans/Neopagans is preformed out of doors and some of these faiths do maintain Temple, Groves and Sacred spaces in the civilian world. This set aside area at the Air Force Academy is no different from those areas.
We dont know for sure who placed the Christian style cross at the Wiccan site, might have been Christians although then again it could be just a bunch of hooligans trying to cause a windup, its wrong to do in either case.
Being an Army brat and a veteran I have lived on alot of bases and if the base is large enough you will have Churches build for many different denominations Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, sometimes these faiths will share a building with services taking place a different times.
I think for the Wiccans or Neopagans having an area set aside that is free from tresspass and vandalism is not to much to ask.

Originally posted by Aeons
I am afraid that you are incorrect about your classifications. Most Wiccans would classified as animist. Astatru are often animist - this is implied in the basics of the old religion. Where literally the World is a God surrounded by time, which is also an aspect of a God.

Pantheism, polytheism, and the practice of singling out a particular God/s to worship are way to limited a set of terminology. The problem exists in explaining Hindusim often as well.

I'm not afraid I'm mistaken. I'm aware of what the terms mean and how they're applied and where the religions fit. granted it IS somewhat arbitrary, but when speaking in generalities, it works.

And Hinduism is Polytheist monotheism. It's like the Christian Trinity, except instead of three gods that are one, it has... lots and lots and lots of gods that are one.

Think that's confusing? Try asking a Hindu what time it is

reply to post by Spirit Warrior 11:11


I found that to be true when I was in basic training in the Army. My drill seargeants in the Army were like: "Wicca? What the hell is that?" When they found out, they were pretty unrelenting with laughter about it.

As a Christian who is of a more open minded than the majority of the flock . I personally feel closer to God in the outdoors looking at the beauty God created . I feel closer to God there than I do in any man made building . The buildings to me with all the stained glass and gold and crystal are a testament to mans political power and the power structure of the church not a testament to Gods Love and power .

I have had Wiccan friends over the years and we had one thing in common the closeness to our Crater in the woods rather than in a church built by man .

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
And Hinduism is Polytheist monotheism. It's like the Christian Trinity, except instead of three gods that are one, it has... lots and lots and lots of gods that are one.

This is the same with pagans. At least the ones I know.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox



Yes you are mistaken. Your classifications require a crowbar to fit the religions you are speaking of into them at all.

I even gave you an example of why Asatru is animist. If you knew any of the stories of the Nordic Gods that would be apparent.

reply to post by brainwrek

Religion is a private matter, why cant morons like those who put the cross up comprehend that?

The word "Religion" came from Latin "Religari" that means "Re-connection with the consciousness behind the intelligent pattern of cosmos. Since the "gods" of mankind were ancient extraterrestrial humanoids, the current definition of "Religion", taking base in the 3 main faiths of the world: Christian, Budist and Muslim, is totally related to the worshiping of ancient civilizations for those astronaut aliens. No doubts they taught and left us a legacy of occult wisdom and metaphysic practices, that have been twisted by religious authorities for thousands of years, mainly in the Cristian and Muslim cases. Unnecessary to say that religion, politic and military power are the keys to control civilizations. The budist faith is the only one that kept this wisdom open to masses, despite of the castes social structure of India use the karma doctrine to keep masses stocked into poverty. But is all there, nothing was ripped off as happened with Christian doctrine, due to sinister interests of Catholic Church. I don't know much (or almost nothing) about Muslim faith, except that Mohamed manipulated this faith entirely to military purposes.
However that's a delicate issue behind the claims of Christian fundamentalists. The so called "pagan worshiping" practiced by groups as wiccans, druidas, "spiritualists" and many others, are remnants of the the most decadent and perverted days of ancient Mesopotamian civilizations. And these groups use to do blood sacrifices to ancient deities and not so rarely, in rituals of sexual depravity. And when I say "blood sacrifices" I don't dismiss "human sacrifices".
It seems if USAF is providing space to black magic rituals, speaking CLEARLY, shouldn't be any surprise since USA is ruled by Freemasonry... I don't dare to realize what is the level of involviment of US government and military with occultism, but since the Washington layout is a huge upside down pentagram with the White House settled in the lower section and the building of military intelligence is a Pentagon, I assume that North American Christians will have a LOT of work to do...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bff261873281.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Well, in regards to David Koresh, here we are almost seventeen years to the day that the fiasco started, and we still don't know anything conclusive. Yet, you speak of it as if it is a universally accepted FACT.

reply to post by jerico65

Then why did the Wiccans need a special built (with government funds) outdoor worship area if religion is a private matter?

Ask Hillary Clinton, she's wiccan.

Originally posted by metamagic
reply to post by superrat

 

It's posts like yours that give people the impression that all Christians are intolerant or bigoted -- I'm sure this is not the impression you would want to give.

Perhaps it might be useful to actually find out about paganism and how it and Christianity have co-existed and even influenced each other over the centuries before assuming that the two are mutually antagonistic.

I may not be a Christian, but there are many in that faith who I respect as honest people of faith and compassion who strive to live higher lives in every way they can. I'm sure that any of them would be appalled at this act of desecration and would see it as contrary to the teachings of their own faith.

I agree with you on this. I may not be fully versed on paganism, but I am not of the mind to preach intolerance. I am a Roman Catholic but have dabbled in other faiths (mildly practicing catholic). I still keep an open mind to other people's faith.

It's people like superrat that make the decent people of any religion seem ignorant.

Just my dos centavos.

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by brainwrek
Religion is a private matter, why cant morons like those who put the cross up comprehend that?

Then why did the Wiccans need a special built (with government funds) outdoor worship area if religion is a private matter?

Yes it is a private manner. But have you ever seen the Air Force Academy church? Very beautifull, very expensive. If one or two cadets were Wican, and demanded a building for their services I'd tell them to go pitch a tent. At somepoint the system has to deal in a proper way with alternate religions. I don't know what that point is.

But from what I understand, their "worship area" was a bunch of stones arranged in a circle. Were not talking a lot, or even any money here. So will all the Christians, and those of any other religion who have a problem with other religions doing what comes naturally, expressing themselves, just knock off the condemnation. If you must try humming as you pass the circle. I hear your less likely to be contaminated by Pagan views. Such as a deep love and respect for nature, equality between men and women, and the belief we are all just soals in transit.

I love that people think that an outdoor area in a spot that won't be run through by troops or accidentally fired on is too much money.

People who have a story about golden calves, and build buildings with implements of gold paid for my tax-payers....and a circle of rocks that aren't in they way and won't led to an accidental friendly fire incident is WAY too much for them.

Then the people who think that no one should be allowed money for a religious space complain about ROCKS being set aside.

The hypocrisy burns.

[edit on 2010/2/4 by Aeons]

Originally posted by ratqueen
Wiccans should feel happy that Christians put a cross up; it's not like the cross was stolen from pagans in the first place or anything.

Thank you someone with a brain! Sheesh, deny ignorance? Indeed. That's what I am saying. We would laugh at that the only people who saw it as an attack was probably the owners of the establishment and you can bet tehy put it there as well, to 'stir the pot' so to speak.

reply to post by ldyserenity


Yeah,it kind of seems sort of like a Psy-OP thing to me as well. You know the rule, "divide and conquer." I think that is all this boils down to,in all honesty.

[edit on 4-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

An adolescent prank being blown entirely out of proportion is what I get from this.

Punish the kid's who did it and move on. Using a prank as an excuse to defame all the members of any religion says volumes about the people doing the defaming.

I had a higher opinion in general about Wicans and Pagans before reading this thread. Luckily though, I'm not the type to judge you all based on a prank. It's sad how many people are that petty. In fact I doubt those doing it are even real believers in their own faiths. They just use it as an excuse for their bad behavior.

reply to post by Blaine91555



Yep, but they are already trying to make this a "hate crime".

www.krdo.com...

reply to post by jerico65


Do you also think it's stupid to have government-paid Christian churches on a military base?

Just curious.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I had a higher opinion in general about Wicans and Pagans before reading this thread.

I don't know what you are referring to. I don't see pagans raising hell about it. If anything, they are trying to calm the tension on this thread. Maybe they should be. Hell, I'm not even pagan and I'm condemning WHOEVER did this. Why would you think less of pagans over this?

reply to post by jerico65


Ahem,ahem

Now some religious freedom advocates say the Air Force Academy is not taking the right approach in dealing with what they consider a hate crime..

Not the pagans

From your article it clearly states it's not the pagans pushing this issue. Look at BOLD words in quote. Thank ya

[edit on 4-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

I would consider it to be a bad managment decision for them to not make clear that threatening or bullying behaviour towards a religious group is unacceptable and will be dealt with.

That an organizational matter. One if left undealt with in an appropriate manner can cause organizational problems and an atmosphere that fosters inappropriate behaviour.

The military should not look away from the potential of an implied threat. However I would not consider this a hate crime.

If you think gangs in the military are causing problems (and they are), imagine what allowing religious bullying will do.......it'll make the gang problem look like a nice pleasant problem to deal with.

[edit on 2010/2/4 by Aeons]