I want Immortality

Since I have been involved in radical life-extension for the last 10 years, I would like to ask why do you want to become immortal? Why not shoot for 500 years instead? I ask this because I'm also in a quest for an extended life, but you have to be realistic. It is possible to reach a VERY long life if you follow the teachings of ancient Chinese philosophy, the Indian Ayurvedic methodologies and current Western medical methods.
Also you may want to join forums and contribute to:

www.imminst.org...

Also the imminent Singularity Event is upon us. Either as Artificial Intelligence or as downloading our Human self into 1's and 0's into a robotic form. But what about of our 21 grams of soul? Will that get that transferred and how about our memories? Another site you might find interesting is this:

www.accelerationwatch.com...

I would rather see a human become the Singularity Event than an A.I. program from M.I.T. but this is a whole other thread.
First of all read books by Richard Dawkins such as the "Selfish Gene" and then "Unweaving the Rainbow".
Then I would suggest reading some of Ray Kurzweil's books such as "The Singularity is Here" and "Transcend".
But in addition to taking care of your biological body you must take care of your mind. I would suggest you read a book titled "Healthy Pleasures" by Robert Ornstein PhD and David Sobel M.D.
In terms of our body, we are bound by a biological clock, or timebomb, and it is called the Telomere. But there is hope. We produce an enzyme called Telomerase but not in sufficient quantities to repair the daily damage that cells receive. But here is an interesting article from two years ago that may give you some insight into this:

www.newscientist.com...

If you have altruistic means in becoming an immortal, I would like you spell these out in an outline here in this thread. It is dangerous to give you anymore information if you do not explain yourself and elucidate your future plans. You are not the only one you know. And there are many who are way ahead of you in this arena.....including myself.

reply to post by KyoZero


Kyo, I haven't seen immortality happen with my own eyes. Neither have I seen any sign of that God exist. I don't believe in God anyway, but, the fact that there are no certain proof that God exist, does that mean he does NOT exist?

For me, immortality is just as real as God or Santa Clause is.


Anyhow, back to topic. What strikes me is that no-one really defines what immortality is. Is it physical or on a mindstate? I do not believe that you can accomplish physical immortality, except with the means of technical equipment and medical ways. But that for me isn't really immortality, it's just cheating age.

Immortality for me is that of the mind and soul (?). I believe that one of the first posters in this thread spoke about it; centering and balancing mind and body through meditation and breathing exercises. Through disciplined training I believe that you can become immortal on a mind level, not anywhere else.

Originally posted by _damon
There are major flaws in your theory. Here is why i would largely prefer to extent my lifespan than bet everything on the hypothetical reincarnation:

I prefer rebirth rather than extending life. In some far away future when science is evolved I would rather extend the physical life but as it is currently the best science can offer are good practices (eating healthy, excercise) and botox.

-you don't know how it works and if we even have any freewill after death

That's why I chose to study as much philosophy/religion as I can while living. You can learn how it works without the need of expensive sophisticated computers other than your brain, which is still more sophisticated and complex than anything man can make. We might not understand our body fully but if we don't try we never will.

-suppose reincarnation happens, can you choose where you will fall on earth (or elsewhere who knows)? If not, then there could be high probablity to be born at the wrong place.

This is the same point as made above, you have free will and understand how conception works ultimately being able to choose your parents. You still would not know wether that particular family will be succesful in life, that is up to chance.

-you could have an accident or a genetic disease. Being again a child without any knowledge and memory, you would be vulnerable.

The perfect rebirth would be with complete memory of your history up to the point you first understood what memory is in a previous life.

-how long would it take to regain your memories of past life? Think about this: i reincarnate without memory, so i will do the same errors again, conditionning, brainwashing, and will have another personality and goals, what if i remember one day but am not interested anymore in my previous goals? Or rejecting that reality?

I think of it like having a brand new modem but with only the basic software to make it work. In the case of rebirth you already have a lot of software to make it do complicated things.

-and what if the world ends while reincarnating? i would loose all
chances.

You would have lost anyway.

There are two paths generally tread by those who wish for Immortality; for the sake of convenience and of the human tendency to understand best through analogy, they are referred to as the Right-hand and Left-hand paths.

The former seeks eternal and perfect union with the greater Universe. The latter seeks to distinguish the Individual utterly from the greater Universe.

This is the first choice you must make, whether you make it consciously or otherwise.

If you want to talk more, u2u me.

A life of immortality would be a living hell, watching your loved ones and everyone that you felt special about wither and die, knowing that you would never die, all those memories of special moments you had disappearing in the blink of the eye, wanting to hold on them but unable to, after a while stories are forgotten and the life you thought you wanted becomes a living nightmare.

Give me 80 years that would do me.

reply to post by bsbray11


Hmm i am not initiated if thats what you ask. There are few reasons, the most importants were to avoid to fall in madness, close mind, blindly beliefs and lies. I want to get closer and closer to an Objective reality, i really don't need to fall in collective beliefs.

I have my own belief which makes more sense to me than the others, i can't proove it because it is just another unprovable speculation. What i think in short about meaning of life and after life:
-we arent more blessed than any others creatures
-we are dust without any prepurposes in an infinite universe among an infinity of worlds
-the only Objective purpose we could all share would be survival
-there is no meaning to life, exept of course to live (survival) AND that we would need to acquire a certain mind experience to survive after flesh death
-survival is the Unique rule that all worlds have in common, the after death world too
-when we die, we are not helped by anyone or anything, we are alone
-the flesh body is a container, more like an armor needed by the soul to survive. The soul cannot, without a strong willpower and mind, survive without a body. Why? Because all is energy and tend to disorganize to neutral energy. Without a body, the soul melt in the infinite ocean of energy that is everywhere, like a drop of water in an ocean. That is what happen to almost all people and others creatures.
-the only way to survive would be to have a strong willpower to maintain your soul in one

That is mainly my belief. Survive after death is part of my goal but not the goal itself.

reply to post by oozyism


Sorry for being late, i had to think carefully about it.

I do believe our soul is permanently in our body, some can see what they call "aura", i think its the energy from our soul.

Protocols? Probably. But i doubt our science can apply on another world. And i think our soul is in another world. If there are things we could do, they would be quite limited because we could only interact with the brain that is merely the link that allow the soul to control the body.

The idea that soul needs this body to survive is mute due to the fact that this body isn't special, it isn't different from its surrounding. If Human body was extremely special and was created from rare material with rare characteristics then surely I would agree with you on that one.

I disagree. The body isnt special? And how do you know that? You cant. What do we know about chi-ki-prana? About auras? About the rules of the soul's world? Nothing. And we still don't know everything about the physical world, we are far from it in fact. The body has to be special or else the soul wouldn't struggle so much when close to death. And if the body wasnt special then why would we have to be conscious of it all the time? We could "disconnect" time to time and go elsewhere no?

About our soul, see my post above.

reply to post by LordBucket

What if you succeed in extending your lifespan, and the world ends? ...on the other hand...if you're able to maintain continuity of consciousness even without a body, the end of the world becomes less of an issue, yes?

There is a major difference. If you are still alive, you can still manage to survive. But if the world already ended, and supposing your soul have managed to survive after death, where would you find your container?

Nothing tell you that when you are a soul alone, you still can come in the physical world and even if you could, you would need to know it and to learn it but if you are alone with no knowledge at all? You are lost.

reply to post by indigothefish


There was another post about monoatomic gold and mstate. I really don't know what to think about it. I tried it some years ago and nothing happened at all, that cost me 120$ and i think it was a scam, maybe water with colouring... But that david icke promote it, i really think its a scam. Proove me wrong.

reply to post by Kratos40


You are right, 500-2000 years would probably be enough. I asked about total Immortality because there is a possibility it is achievable, even the slighest.

Also the imminent Singularity Event is upon us. Either as Artificial Intelligence or as downloading our Human self into 1's and 0's into a robotic form. But what about of our 21 grams of soul? Will that get that transferred and how about our memories? Another site you might find interesting is this

See my previous post

I doubt we will be able to download oursleves in a machine. Because the soul is not governed by the physical rules. Your memory are in your soul (previous lives or not), even if they manage to transfer one's memory in a machine that wouldnt be you but a copy of you. The real you would be the soul that left your dead flesh body. Even if the machine would get your memories, i doubt it would has any personnality, emotions or goals.

In terms of our body, we are bound by a biological clock, or timebomb, and it is called the Telomere. But there is hope. We produce an enzyme called Telomerase but not in sufficient quantities to repair the daily damage that cells receive. But here is an interesting article from two years ago that may give you some insight into this:

This is a very interesting find. But how would you make more telomerase? You would be dependant and of the technological research and machines, and of the people (mostly untrustworthy, laboratories...) that make the enzyme. Rather inconvenient. If there was a way to learn to make it yourself, but how? Learning to mutate your body by will? Im still looking forward to it... Thanks for the clue, that could be helpful.

If you have altruistic means in becoming an immortal, I would like you spell these out in an outline here in this thread. It is dangerous to give you anymore information if you do not explain yourself and elucidate your future plans. You are not the only one you know. And there are many who are way ahead of you in this arena.....including myself.

To do greater things, you don't only need Power, you need time too. I intend to try to find a way to change the world, to bring back a balance and avoid what i see now as inevitable: the destruction of the Earth. Think about it, normal people wouldn't bother about what could happen to this Planet as long as they have an escape route (like another planet to "conquer"). Well I bother. A planet is a pearl, the ultimate ecosystem that can allow life and diversity. Life can come back as long as this world exists. I call it a greater treasure that must be preserved at all cost. My goal in short is to avoid destruction of this world. That may be childish, naive and mad? Well im not naive and in today's world you need to be mad to think by yourself or else you are nothing more than an ignorant living in illusions. And i need more than one lifespan to achieve such a goal.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by _damon]

Op, it's all about balance. Mortality is part of our design and as a result, neither the good traits or bad traits can be allowed to last forever.

I really hate to disappoint you but immortality is not even granted to the most perfect specimen of any species.

Please forgive me for my bluntness because I really don't know how to state this nicely, but the human race cannot afford to have your arrogance and selfishness last for all eternity.

reply to post by Alxandro


There is always a way to put people in their own universe all by themselves and let them see either copies of themselves or figure out someday they live among just computers.

Some of us try to keep everybody alive with some sense of sanity.

Immortality is almost a reality through Science/tech.. check regenerating stem cell treatments, the reprogramming of Mitochondrial dna, and strong doses of resveritrol.

Your sincere wish is respected. But you have been had.

You fell for the lie that you are a body. "I" is not a body. You are a soul. You can't help being immortal!
So the problem is actually "why do I keep forgetting my lives?".

If it comes to your body, I support the idea that you could become spiritually so advanced that you could keep your body alive forever. Mind over matter.

Personally I feel death is a handy way to politely escape from boring games. I wouldn't want to miss it. But I definitely want to become better at remembering past lives. Gives you a better picture of who you really are.

A little late to join the party, but...

Since I'm Chinese, this is my understanding of Immortality, straight from Wiki.

The Shenxian zhuan (神仙傳 Biographies of Spirit Immortals") is a hagiography of xian. Although it was traditionally attributed to Ge Hong (283–343 CE), Komjathy (2004:43) says, "The received versions of the text contain some 100-odd hagiographies, most of which date from 6th-8th centuries at the earliest."

According to the Shenxian zhuan, there are four schools of immortality:

Qì (气—“Pneumas”): Breath control and meditation. Those who belong to this school can

"...blow on water and it will flow against its own current for several paces; blow on fire, and it will be extinguished; blow at tigers or wolves, and they will crouch down and not be able to move; blow at serpents, and they will coil up and be unable to flee. If someone is wounded by a weapon, blow on the wound, and the bleeding will stop. If you hear of someone who has suffered a poisonous insect bite, even if you are not in his presence, you can, from a distance, blow and say in incantation over your own hand (males on the left hand, females on the right), and the person will at once be healed even if more than a hundred li away. And if you yourself are struck by a sudden illness, you have merely to swallow pneumas in three series of nine, and you will immediately recover.
But the most essential thing [among such arts] is fetal breathing. Those who obtain [the technique of] fetal breathing become able to breathe without using their nose or mouth, as if in the womb, and this is the culmination of the way [of pneumatic cultivation]." (Campany 2002:21)

Fàn (饭—“Diet”): Ingestion of herbal compounds and abstention from the Sān Shī Fàn (三尸饭—“Three-Corpses food”)—Meats (raw fish, pork, dog, leeks, and scallions) and grains. According to the book To Live As Long As Heaven and Earth: Ge Hong’s Traditions of Divine Transcendents, the importance of 'grain avoidance' was told in a story by Ge Hong:

"During the reign of Emperor Cheng of the Han, hunters in the Zhongnan Mountains saw a person who wore no clothes, his body covered with black hair. Upon seeing this person, the hunters wanted to pursue and capture him, but the person leapt over gullies and valleys as if in flight, and so could not be overtaken. [But after being surrounded and captured, it was discovered this person was a 200 plus year old woman, who had once been a concubine of Qin Emperor Ziying. When he had surrendered to the 'invaders of the east', she fled into the mountains where she learned to subside on 'the resin and nuts of pines' from an old man. Afterwards, this diet 'enabled [her] to feel neither hunger nor thirst; in winter [she] was not cold, in summer [she] was not hot.']
The hunters took the woman back in. They offered her grain to eat. When she first smelled the stink of grain, she vomited, and only after several days could she tolerate it. After little more than two years of this [diet], her body hair fell out; she turned old and died. Had she not been caught by men, she would have become a transcendent." (Campany 2002:22–23)

Continued...

Continued...

Fángzhōng Zhī Shù (房中之术—“Arts of the Bedchamber”): Sexual yoga. (Campany 2002:30–31) According to a discourse between the Yellow Emperor and the immortaless Sùnǚ (素女—“Plain Girl”), one of the three daughters of Hsi Wang Mu,

“The sexual behaviors between a man and woman are identical to how the universe itself came into creation. Like Heaven and Earth, the male and female share a parallel relationship in attaining an immortal existence. They both must learn how to engage and develop their natural sexual instincts and behaviors; otherwise the only result is decay and traumatic discord of their physical lives. However, if they engage in the utmost joys of sensuality and apply the principles of yin and yang to their sexual activity, their health, vigor, and joy of love will bear them the fruits of longevity and immortality. (Hsi 2002:99–100)

The White Tigress Manual, a treatise on female sexual yoga, states,

“A female can completely restore her youthfulness and attain immortality if she refrains from allowing just one or two men in her life from stealing and destroying her [sexual] essence, which will only serve in aging her at a rapid rate and bring about an early death. However, if she can acquire the sexual essence of a thousand males through absorption, she will acquire the great benefits of youthfulness and immortality.” (Hsi 2001:48)

Dān (丹—"Alchemy", literally "Cinnabar"): Elixir of Immortality.(Campany 2002:31)

So when you achieve the things mentioned above, let me know how it turned out. If you become an Immortal, I'll surely follow this practice.

The Lord Jesus Christ talks a lot about living forever. Did you ever read the Bible for your answer? Start in Romans chapter 10 verses 9-13. And continue on, the secret of eternal life is easily laid out in the Bible for all who will search it out. 1 John 5:13 as well.

deep...DEEP hypnosis may be of some help.

Originally posted by _damon
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I wouldn't entrust my body and life to anyone, especially some experimental technology. It is really too risky.

Im not "wishing" or believing, im invistigating. I think there is a possibility that Immortality or longer lifespan is possible. There is no a simple known case, which doesnt mean it doesnt exist. Why would an Immortal reveal himself to the world? He wouldnt benefit in any way from it. Why do i think someone here could have any info? Im trying. My expectations are not high but i have nothing to loose. Plus from what i read, the results are positive.

There are reasons to believe it may be possible to extend life via genetic alteration. (Caveat: "there are reasons to believe it may be possible" doesn't equal "it will happen."!) The argument goes like this: the variations in life span between even very similar species seems a little bit random, as if it were under some kind of genetic control. That putative control is sometimes referred to as "the aging clock." A prime example puts together Japanese quail and common pigeons. Given ideal living conditions, these two species grow, age and die over, respectively, four years and twenty years. That's a half an order of magnitude difference! And they're otherwise very similar. So, are Japanese quail (and other birds of similar life span) "programmed" to age and die quickly? If so, can the programming be altered? There is active genetic sequencing research into this, as well as into subpopulations of humans with unusually long lifespans. If a particular genetic difference can be identified, it could, potentially, be altered. Deliberate genetic alteration is not wildly theoretical, but rather quite doable, and, in fact, done (though not on humans.)

reply to post by _damon


Wow, to see what your spirit seeks. Your are blessed damon and do not see it. I am going to live forever and I know this without a doubt and when I go into that immortal state I will no longer be as a man, but one who is tempted no more. Then, true peace will come. I look forward to death but wait patient for it. You are seeking Jesus Christ. He is the only one who will give you freely, eternal life.