what the hell happened to the United States of America's citizens?

this question needs to be asked because our country is becoming seriously divided, over a lot of childish things


what happened to this country, where we can no longer ask questions?

what happened to this country where now, when we do ask questions, we are persecuted, insulted, and personally attacked for doing so?

this used to be the country that was the leader in science, the leader in technology, the leader in human rights


now theres nothing scientific about anything, everything is just here-say, conjecture, and speculation, and people take it as fact to the point they seem willing to fight to the death over it


how can so many people argue over things there is no proof for one way or another?

when did people just start automatically taking every-bodies words as gospel and require no proof to back up or substantiate a single claim? or consider the vaguest pieces of information as gospel and sufficient evidence


how did our country come to this?


how did we go from being so unified that we were able to take on the british and gain our independence, to not even being able to talk to each other without each side resorting to childish name calling and insults to back up their statement?


what has happened to the intellect of our american citizens and what has to be done to re-instill intelligence back to our society?


i bring this up because the "birther" debate has been going on for a very long time, so recently i set about getting involved to try to educate myself and get answers so i could personally know what is going on, but the minute i start asking questions, even i am attacked


attacked without making any claims or assertions, just simply attacked when asking legit questions as someone who is unfamiliar with the subject


it seems no subject requires proof any longer, proof is not even an afterthought as people are too busy arguing over whos a better name caller, or who can argue their version of events better then the other without providing a single piece of irrefutable evidence and looking down upon those who simply ask for nothing else then irrefutable evidence


at one point, this passion was what made america so great, but lately it seems that passion has completely clouded all judgement and reason


how did this epidemic sweep through our country so fast

i mean all this childish bickering over every subject in the book

9/11, the birther thing, just to name a few, you name it though and instead of dealing in science and evidence, its all insults and everything is immediately us verse them


i dont understand what is happening to america, it doesnt make sense, and it looks horrible for our country, we look like a bunch of dumb whiny teenie bopping controlling losers on the international scene, countries truly must look down on us, i look down on us after seeing this complete disregard for knowledge or any type of evidence

people really need to start using their brains more and their hearts less because emotion is extremely clouding judgement and vision


i am not writing this thread to say the pentagon was not hit by a plane, im not writing this thread to say obama was not born in this country, im not writing this thread to make a claim about anything other then the mentality and actions of the citizens of the USA


rather then doing the smart thing, and conducting professional investigations that ask intelligent questions until they have intelligent answers, people just wish to force what they think is right on everyone else even though there isnt a single american with solid proof on ANYTHING anymore


whats next the debate on whether or not dinosaurs really went extinct or not?

are people just finding new subjects solely so they can argue about things and insult each other?

it sure doesnt look like a pursuit of knowledge but it sure as hell does look like the beginning and makings for a real civil war

if we go to civil war while the world is as heated as it is, the USA will fall

it will fall just like rome, from the inside out , and we are all to blame, we should all be ashamed of ourselves as americans

American Idol


and everything like it

The United States is as it always was...a collection of opposing ideas, ideals, races, religions, political outlooks, etc...

There has never been a time in our history that we simply agreed on anything...ever....but we dont need unanimous agreement to get things done, we simply need a majority.

Whats the saying..."Democracy is 3 wolves and 1 sheep, all with equal votes, voting on whats for dinner".

However, it is with this clash of personalities and opinions where a middleground is found and where the interesting parts of our country comes from.

Whats interesting is how many people opposed the initial revolution to begin with, but it was decided by the majority to go ahead, and so they did...once committed however, people get on board for the most part.

It is normal...and arguably critical, that the clash of ideas continue...it makes us continously alert (misguided or not) to important aspects of the country.

The intellect statement you made does hit home though, Education is the most critical part of our national security. Any issue on the hotplate today will be history tomorrow, but what will be long lasting is the collective IQ of the nation, and it is spiraling downward. I dont have an answer to that beyond a general ban of televisions to save the nation...but since that wont happen, then I guess a more creative solution is required.

reply to post by Dramey

"this used to be the country that was the leader in science, the leader in technology, the leader in human rights"

Thanks for making me live longer, laughter works wonders

In short, the short-comings of mankind have been exploited to the benefit of a select group of people. "Divide and conquer" has been around for millenia and a more advanced form, using psychology, sociology and marketing have been employed against common people for nearly 50 years. Make no mistkae, this is by design and completely intentional.

The good news is that more and more and people are becoming "aware" of it and taking steps to minimize the effects upon themselves.

What else can you expect from a country that has spent the last 9 years chasing ghosts?
Bush was right about one thing, 9/11 did change the world. Our righteous indignation was our downfall. In the name of revenge we let the Neocons have a free hand to do whatever they wanted. In the meantime the media went from being the guardians of freedom and investigators of wrongdoing into cheerleaders for a war and mouthpieces for an administration. After all, it's far cheaper to hire a talking head than to actually pay reporter's salaries and expenses for reports that they wouldn't want to air lest they tick off one of their corporate sponsors.
On the other end of the spectrum we have the hard-left democrats who think we should give money to everyone who might be depressed or drops a baby or whatever.
Those willing to take responsiblity for their own lives and actions are growing increasingly smaller.
Now the TARP bonanza has basically opened the doors to the treasury to private banks to do what they want which is gamble with taxpayer money.
If Americans had a lick of sense and moral fortitude there would be public hangings of these criminals and those who enabled them.
You ask a good question. Who is going to act like a citizen anymore and give their time for civic responisibility instead of trying to line their own pockets? Too few I'm afraid. Americans have grown lazy, irresponsible, greedy and arrogant. Aside from that we're perfect

Originally posted by SaturnFX
The United States is as it always was...a collection of opposing ideas, ideals, races, religions, political outlooks, etc...

There has never been a time in our history that we simply agreed on anything...ever....but we dont need unanimous agreement to get things done, we simply need a majority.

Whats the saying..."Democracy is 3 wolves and 1 sheep, all with equal votes, voting on whats for dinner".

However, it is with this clash of personalities and opinions where a middleground is found and where the interesting parts of our country comes from.

Whats interesting is how many people opposed the initial revolution to begin with, but it was decided by the majority to go ahead, and so they did...once committed however, people get on board for the most part.

It is normal...and arguably critical, that the clash of ideas continue...it makes us continously alert (misguided or not) to important aspects of the country.

The intellect statement you made does hit home though, Education is the most critical part of our national security. Any issue on the hotplate today will be history tomorrow, but what will be long lasting is the collective IQ of the nation, and it is spiraling downward. I dont have an answer to that beyond a general ban of televisions to save the nation...but since that wont happen, then I guess a more creative solution is required.

i fully agree with you on everything you say

but i must point out, in recent times, it appears that those ideas are extremely more passionate, to the point of putting facts, science and physical evidence aside


that is something that is different, before, people used to have an open mind, and they used to let science and fact influence their ultimate opinion, it seems to be that way no longer, now opinions are formed simply on opinion and seem to be fought to the death to assert each persons opinion regardless of facts, or lack of facts

the only way that america and the world in general has been able to evolve is through the fact people kept open minds and struggled to find facts and science in events taking place

no longer does science or fact seem important in any way, the main influence seems to be nothing but passion from pre-conceived notions while ignoring all facts and common sense


we designed our law system to depend on certain things to work, however we have thrown those things out when debating anything

Originally posted by Klavier
reply to post by Dramey

 

"this used to be the country that was the leader in science, the leader in technology, the leader in human rights"

Thanks for making me live longer, laughter works wonders

would you like to make any claim or show anything contrary to that statement that shows another country was a better country as far as human rights go? as far as technology goes? as far as science goes? or would you just like to laugh and fall into the category of the exact type of people im mentioning?

i make no claims we were perfect, but things have been a lot better here then in other countries for a long time until recently

i have to say at least we can have some hope, as there have been some intelligent replies so far, very refreshing to see and read

Originally posted by I.C. Weiner

 

 

you are very correct and ill be the 1st to admit my grammar spelling and punctuation needs a lot of work when it comes to online writings

I'LL BITE.

it boils down to the times of the 21st century, we just went thru a trying and hard decade. Education, is key yet ironically your talking about how fanatics act, beleiving things with no proof. Ahem, during trying times like these many people are quick to beleive without proof. Or choose a side or someone's opinion without looking for truth's. Usually it is the educated who get these people to do this.

Yet I guess the bottumline in my opinion, is the lack of education. I still think we are doing pretty decent with science, I could be wrong but I thnk the flat screen tv was discovered by an American, or invented and then sold to the highest bidder.. As far as intellect as a whole I see, that fading out, intellectualism, seems to be a uncool thing to have nowadays.. It seems people are quick choose sides and bicker and argue nowadays as well, without knowing the history either. Whether it be over religion or whatever.

Best thing I can say is just try to stay outta those things, observe, and if you do participate in such arguements or debates try to learn from the behavior.

I do not think its just an American, thing thou.

Idiocracy in action.

Camacho for President!

reply to post by Dramey


Oh, I disagree...People have always been nutty...logic is reserved for the elite in my opinion, however those with intellect and logic mixed with charisma can win over the simple minds in time...enough to get votes.

This time is no different...the knuckledraggers are always passionate, always want their life to be epic, and will go with whomever makes more sense to them...or cater to their base desires.

Our leaders are the only real ones that need to be logical, and they must logically take their advice from the scientists...the ones that need to be intellectual. the rest of the unwashed masses are simply barely able to scream at the colorbox that is in front of their faces hours a day...they are simply talking point parrots of whomever programs them the best.

Its a sad...and normal...state of human affairs...not even a American model, this is simply how society works.

I wish things were different. I wish that in order to be a citizen of the US, you had to pass a minimal IQ test followed by some...any higher education accredited degree...I would value the input of a citizen then far more than just the curren "gotta be born here" nonsense. Oh well.

Personally I believe our differences have been magnified and then broadcast 24/7 thanks to the corporate media. Big companies finally learned how to use the internet and cable news to shape policy and drive public opinion when we entered the 21st century.

Now thanks to such shinning examples of American journalism like Fox and MSNBC, anything and anyone that goes against the corporate hegemony in the US is quickly destroyed before it can be a threat.

Oh, and American Idol.

The melting pot is full and it is boiling over.

Because people should not fear their govt. A govt. should fear it's people.

Great country's always die from with'in before the are defeated from the
outside.

Surly you don't expect things to be the same when we have given freedom
away. Swaped like an old baseball card for a safety that should have already been the case.
A people that will trade their liberty for safety are soon not to have either.
Jefferson,
Where the hell have you been? Hiding in a cave? There is no U.S. of A.
anymore.
She has gone the way of sacrifice.

Everytime you hear that word come from a politicians lips.
You should listen very hard to what they're saying.
Listen everyway it is possible to listen.
Listen to the code they're speaking.
Because this is what they mean.


Are you sure you havn't been to worried about the bickering to notice?



[edit on 3-2-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by Bicent76
I still think we are doing pretty decent with science, I could be wrong but I thnk the flat screen tv was discovered by an American, or invented and then sold to the highest bidder.. As far as intellect as a whole I see, that fading out, intellectualism, seems to be a uncool thing to have nowadays.. .

I think this post (no disrespect Bicent) proves my post quite nicely.

our science is great because we have better colorboxes to look at...and being smart is lame.

this is the same mindset of the 90s, 80s, 70s, etc...and before colorboxes...well, people were more aware of course...they had to put effort in getting information and since there was very little information to begin with and no distractions, people chewed on it alot more.

This person (again, no disrespect Bicent) will never be a leader or a scientist...his opinion matters not...his purpose in the grand scheme of things is to simply pay taxes and be programmed by whomever leads him on his colorbox to vote a specific way...a minor part in a machine run by only the logical and intellectual. The only issue is that the colorbox programming machine is not controlled by the scientists (intellectuals)...so his voting will be a variable instead of predetermined, which makes things more interesting, and potentially disasterous.

*luckily* should things flop and the morons elect Lil Jon as president or something equally dumb, we have in place overseers (shadow government, illuminati, whatever you want to call them) to reign in such nonsense and keep damage to a minimum.

incidently, I am not part of the elite...I am a knuckledragger also with my neat colorbox and programmed mindset. I am no better than the rest of the tools and parts of this machine...just wanted to get that out before someone starts calling me elitist or whatnot. I am a realist.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Well said SaturnFX,

I think that should answer the the Op's question, and conclude with a better sense of understanding the WHY.. Yet I think its a bit more abroad. Yet this view I have is not important, and is unrelated to the actual question.

Originally posted by Dramey
are people just finding new subjects solely so they can argue about things and insult each other?

Yes.

But don't be mistaken: this is worldwide and has been going on for centuries until the present intolerable level.

But the good and the truth have been obstacled and banned in the last dozen of centuries.

Just because people like it this way. It's a child's game, no more no less, so please don't spend too much time thinking about it. We're in utter mess, a very serious situation. Enjoy what is good because evil is undestructable at the moment, it is too powerful. At the MOMENT.

And please mistrust even people in this board. They don't own the truth, most are just very confused and scared, and many are plain stupid. Look at me for example.

I hope you and me find the real companions of life. Right now, I feel Lao Tze and Gandhi are much more friends of mine than my own family or "friends".

They can sincerely # off opposite to Gandhi, my real source of inspiration.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by purpleduck]

reply to post by Dramey


well I would be reminded of the old addage "divide and conquer" this is the government's agenda, they want to gain control of us and if we're sidetracked with all this other BS, we won't notice when they do get us under control, are you ready to be slaves again? Are you ready for our freedoms to be snatched from us? I'm NOT! We need to see the whole picture, sadly the most of the public can't see the forest for the trees and will have no right to B**** when all this goes down cause they let the petty S*** keep them from the truth!