Disappearing off the grid, page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 6 times


reply posted on 2-2-2010 @ 12:42 AM by Pajjikor
reply to post by In nothing we trust



hell no i dont and have had same thoughts that you have, was thinking bout getting some guns, food and making a base in the underground of new york or some other city. Only problem is i dont have lot of good contacts to help me get started.

[edit on 2-2-2010 by Pajjikor]


reply posted on 2-2-2010 @ 01:22 AM by On the Edge
2012poleshift.wetpaint.com...

I saw this a while back. It might be of some help to you.

(Scroll down a bit on the page...)


reply posted on 2-2-2010 @ 09:29 AM by Doc Holiday
reply to post by Asktheanimals



If you did all that you would live like I do.

My other ID is not false so to say but I was adopted and have two birth certs and two SS #'s

Property deed...no proof of ID required...
Auto...farm tags...again no registration needed...
bank account....whaaa...cash works fine
income "for now" un-licensed gunsmith, with two lathes, bridgeport mill, welder, and cattle paid fair this year. Plus fixing other farmers tractors/equip./gates and such.
Use a PO box for mail...and a closed gate at driveway..."no mailbox"
No power lines...make my own electricity..

But I'm not 100% off the grid, but easily could be.

Just replied to ask the animals, don't ask me why, just did...sorry ATA was not meant toward or just for you, your just a familiar face and I know/hope you understand my thoughts.

ETA this has taken me 8-10 years to get this done....

[edit on 2-2-2010 by Doc Holiday]


reply posted on 2-2-2010 @ 09:46 AM by jibeho
Just study how Eric Rudolph survived for all of those years as a wanted man. I am by no means an advocate of Rudolphs but his story is quite interesting.

SANCHEZ: For five years, Eric Rudolph hid in this mountainous corner of western North Carolina in an area approximately a half- million acres wide. He had a myriad of hiding places and camps, some of which have still not been found. But through details found in letters and conversations he shared with his mother, we are now able to retrace his steps and we do so with the man who's mission it was to hunt him down. Charles Stone headed the Georgia Bureau of Investigation's anti-terrorism unit and has now co-written a book on "Hunting Eric Rudolph."

CHARLES STONE, FMR. GBI TASK FORCE LEADER: You're talking about a double-canopy forest here, where you have deciduous trees, and then you have -- directly underneath it, you have laurel thickets, mountain laurel thickets that do not lose their leaves.

SANCHEZ: Add to that that he was familiar with this turf.

STONE: Grew up in the area. He loved to play hide and seek in this area. He was a student of survival, escape and resistance in the military.

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Pat Rudolph describes her son's survival not just in terms of skill, but also in terms of dumb luck. Like the time, as he explains in a letter, he stole a truck from Buy-Rite Motors in Murphy, North Carolina, then ran out of gas, and then found himself staring at a police officer.

P. RUDOLPH: It was in the middle of the night, and the police officer came by, and asked him what was wrong. He told him, and he said, oh, don't worry about it, I have gas in my car for when I run out, and you can have that. So, he gave it to him.

SANCHEZ (on camera): The police officer didn't know that he was helping a fugitive who was on the lam.

P. RUDOLPH: Right. Right.

SANCHEZ: According to conversations he had with his mother, Eric Rudolph would climb silos like this one all the way up to the top, and then fill bags with corn and soybean. One night, though, he looked across and he had to hunker down when he suddenly realized, he says, that there were hunters there. And then he looked closer and realized they had a dog, a dog he was convinced, he tells his mother, was going to sniff him out.

P. RUDOLPH: He was hanging inside the silo, and peeking out over the top of the silo, when he heard this crash, you know, like -- and a yelp, down below. And the men that were there started screaming, "the dog, the dog, the dog's been hit." Something's happened to Lil. And they all ran, and he's watching them, and, yes, sure enough, the dog was killed.

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Rudolph is known to have gotten help from just one person while hiding out in these mountains. Family friend and health food store owner George Nordman gave him vitamins and other supplies. But then, he called police. By the time police arrived, Eric Rudolph had fled to wander these mountainous trails, by counting his steps and committing them to memory. That ability alone, and his familiarity with the terrain, leads investigator Charles Stone to conclude he probably did do it alone.

Let me show you how he explained to his mother that he would cross some of these streams and some of these rivers at night. Essentially, with old garbage bags that he would find, and he would use them as weighters.

(voice-over): And when he got to the other side of the Valley River, here in Andrews, North Carolina, he would hit the McDonald's, to devour the uneaten hamburgers that had been thrown into the dumpster. Or he'd dumpster-dive behind the Civic Cinema for leftover popcorn.


edition.cnn.com...


reply posted on 2-2-2010 @ 10:46 AM by Asktheanimals
reply to post by jibeho



If Rudolph were such an "expert" survivalist he wouldn't have had to endanger himself by going near civilization. Most of the time he hid out with friends.
The guy writing the story wants to cover for the fact that the LE were out tracking bears instead of Rudolph. They completely blew the search from the get-go. If they had put competent mantrackers on it immediately they would have found him.
Rudolph's story just proves that pretty much anyone can hide out and avoid the law almost indefinitely with a small amount of training.
If you want to study how to hide read up on Geronimo.


reply posted on 2-2-2010 @ 12:39 PM by jibeho
Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to
post by jibeho



If Rudolph were such an "expert" survivalist he wouldn't have had to endanger himself by going near civilization. Most of the time he hid out with friends.
The guy writing the story wants to cover for the fact that the LE were out tracking bears instead of Rudolph. They completely blew the search from the get-go. If they had put competent mantrackers on it immediately they would have found him.
Rudolph's story just proves that pretty much anyone can hide out and avoid the law almost indefinitely with a small amount of training.
If you want to study how to hide read up on Geronimo.


Five years and only one or two known helpers and one of them is dead. Rudolph was a long time radical loner and not the type seek out much in the way of friends or help. He got too comfortable and cocky in his later years on the lamb and got caught scavenging in a dumpster behind a grocery store. If he had a lot of help he wouldn't be scavenging.

As a side note, Rudolph had at least four caches of dynamite hidden around the town of Murphy that he had led the FBI to. One of which was a 25-pound bomb buried across the road from the Army National Guard armory that federal agents used during the hunt for him.

Yes, the search team should have relied more on locals or pros rather than out of town agents not familiar with the area. It is intimidating terrain.

I have camped and hiked in an area not far from Murphy, in Boiling Springs, and I can tell you first hand that it is tough territory if you are navigating off of a trail. If you want to get lost there, it is easily done and Rudolph clearly knew the terrain an how to survive off of it and how to take advantage of local resources.

Clearly, Rudolph is not in the same league as Geronimo but Geronimo also lived in a different place and time in History.

Anyway, all the facts of Rudolph's case still are not known nor will they ever be.



[edit on 2-2-2010 by jibeho]



reply posted on 3-2-2010 @ 12:44 AM by mattifikation
Credit Cards and Banks - Between banks and credit card companies, a list exists out there of nearly everything you buy. You can get around this to some extent by paying with cold, hard cash or money orders, but major purchases such as college, houses, and automobiles are probably going to show up in your bank statement or credit reports... unless you're loaded. You can always rent your home and buy a beater car, but they have other ways to track that sort of thing. Prepaid Credit Cards bought at grocery stores are another option.

Driver's License/ID - Just a basic card to make sure you're on file. No big deal by itself, but it's the cornerstone of many of the other ways they track you. Without at least a state ID card, you're going to have some pretty huge restrictions on what you can buy and what you can do. I'm not sure what you can do about it, other than wait until you're so old that nobody cards you anymore.

Social Security - No numbers, no job! This and your Driver's License/ID are the two big identifiers that link most of the other tracking methods together. You normally can't even get a conventional job without Social Security and another form of ID. If you can't go into your own business, it's under-the-table work for you from now on! Thanks to our amazing laws, you're kind of stuck with a Social Security number already. The best you can do is avoid using it and try to let the trail run cold somewhere.

Passport - Now with 100% more Vitamins R, F, I, and D! Anyone with common sense knows that a passport is just a way to track your international travels. Solutions? Ask the Mexicans... lol.

Post Office - Once upon a time, these guys delivered mail. Now they keep track of where you live, and I do believe it's mandatory to have your correct address listed. There's not much you can do about it, except maybe have a primary residence somewhere that you just never get around to going back to.

Vehicle Registration - Keeps track of what you drive. About the only way to get around this is to take taxis, bum rides off of friends, and get a good bicycle. I recommend living somewhere warm. I get around this way (for other reasons,) and I live in Pennsylvania, and it's not fun this time of year.

Voter Registration - So they know whose side you're on. Of course, if you're trying to disappear then you probably won't be voting anyways. In truth, this probably just doesn't matter all that much. Both big sides are actually the right and left hand of the same body, and all the little sides are about as impotent as Bob Dole with a rubber band on his... wait, what was I saying here?

Insurance - An insurance policy can also be looked at as a list of things you own. Soon they'll include the status of your own health on that list, thanks to Obamacare. Insurance on your house, car, body, life, and anything else is mostly an acknowledgment that you own them. Be warned about dropping insurance though! It works kind of like a Mafia "protection racket." If you don't pay your protection you might find yourself taking a loss. In some states, they'll even take your driving privileges away if your car isn't insured. You can be "self insured," but that still puts your life on a list. Again, the only way out of this one is to accept the risks.

Local Taxes, State, and Federal Taxes - Tracks your income and where you live. Want to recover some of that money from write-offs and tax incentives? It's easy to do, just mail in a list of your expenses to go with your employment records. Oh, and it's mandatory! You have a few options here. You can move to another country and deal with a completely different set of draconian policies. You can stop filing your tax forms and become wanted for tax evasion, in which case all of your other disappearing policies had best serve you well for the rest of your life. Or you risk popping back up on the radar once a year by just going ahead and filing.

Monthly Bills - Water, electric, gas, garbage, sewage, phone, TV, Internet. Possible solutions? Water wells, solar panels or windmills, wood stoves or propane tanks, hauling your own trash, septic tank, not having a home phone, get an antenna and a DVD player, do your web surfing on a laptop from the parking lot at McDonald's.

OnStar - Okay, let's just get one thing straight. OnStar is basically Big Brother for your car. Yeah, they'll call an ambulance for you if you wreck. Yeah, they'll bring you gas if you run out. Yeah, they'll unlock your door if you lock yourself out. But we have over a hundred years of automotive history without OnStar and there's no reason you can't go a hundred years more without it.

CELL PHONES - Cell phones are a BIG ONE. Every cell phone on the U.S. market today has - MANDATORY - a GPS tracking chip in it. Even if you don't have GPS as a function on your phone, the chip is in there. This has been the case ever since new 911 (as in the emergency phone number, not the date) laws came into effect requiring 911 services to be able to trace any incoming call. Furthermore, they can triangulate the source of your cell's signal. "Cellies" get even more insidious. What would happen if nearly every citizen in the country was carrying a portable microphone in their pocket, which the FBI can activate at any time and listen in on? What if none of these people were even aware of that? What would they call this system? You probably guessed it: They'd call it your cell phone, and yes, they can do it. Not even turning your phone off between calls will protect you; they can turn it back on remotely. Only removing the battery will protect you. And cell phone viruses exist which will even give ordinary civilians this ability, if they can manage to infect your phone (which is not hard.)

There is something you can do about the cell phone problem, though. You can get a prepaid phone. YES, you'll still have that microphone. YES, it will still have that GPS. BUT!! You can buy a prepaid phone with cash, always buy the prepaid cards with cash, and give them a fake name for the caller ID. If you do that, "They" won't know that the phone is yours and therefor won't be able to track you with it. If they ever find out your number though, you're boned. I recommend getting a new phone with a new number and a new fake name every few months or so.

The Internet - I mentioned earlier that your Internet bill can track you, but so can the Internet itself. If you can manage a completely fake persona - completely detached from the real you AND your "new life" - then you're safe to do some things online. Never from your own network, never with your real name, never without *THE MOST SECURE* computer set-up you can possibly have. Common sense applies. Don't buy things online. Don't do online banking (or any banking.) Social Networking is BAD - sites like Twitter, Facebook, Myspace, and the Blogs are basically giant Wikipedias in which the entries offer up every minute detail of their users... AND everyone that their users post about. You can't really do much about the things people say about you, except try and make sure you're staying out of people's spotlights enough that they don't bother writing about you.

Subscriptions - Online and offline, anything that bills your or sends anything to you is operated using a database that you are on. Be wary of this. If you use things like Anti-Virus programs, X-Box Live, World of Warcraft, Newsletters, newspapers, magazines... ANYTHING that you subscribe or sign up for... then you need to do so while successfully faking who you are to the company you are subscribing from.

Public Transit Surveillance - Buses, trains, planes, etc. In 2001, 80 percent of all public transit agencies had some kind of surveillance system in place. CCTV and audio recording were both possibilities. This was 9 years ago. They've even been monitoring what people say on buses and trains. If you use these methods of transportation, wear sunglasses and a hat and keep your mouth shut. And try not to make a scene of yourself while doing so...

School - Public, private, home school, cyber school... guess what? It doesn't matter. If your kids are getting an education, then somewhere the government is keeping track of it. And them. And you. The only solution is to drop your kids out of school completely and pray that it doesn't destroy the entire rest of their life (FYI - it probably will.)

RFID - Simply put, your boned on this one. Stop buying things, because more and more things are being RFID chipped. That's seriously the answer. The good news is that RFID is relatively short ranged and there aren't RFID readers positioned throughout every neighborhood to monitor what RFID chips go through them... yet. More good news is that food isn't RFID chipped... yet. Most clothing is safe, so far. New cash is chipped, so you'll want to make sure you only accept old money. You want the old, green money... not the new multi-colored stuff.

Memberships - Anytime you sign up as a member of anything, regardless of what it is, where it is, or the nature of your membership, an entry will be created for you in a database somewhere. WILL be. The only way you can have a membership in anything is by faking who you are. You'll need to misrepresent your identity, which means you need to be careful of the law. Something you should keep in mind: Breaking the law to hide yourself may preserve your "hidden" status, but it will increase the effort being put into finding you.




In addition to this, you'll NEED to read the following Wikipedia links. Do NOT skip over these:

Information Awareness Office
Echelon


reply posted on 3-2-2010 @ 01:03 AM by ViperFoxBat
Originally posted by On the Edge
2012poleshift.wetpaint.com...

I saw this a while back. It might be of some help to you.

(Scroll down a bit on the page...)


That web page had about 5 viruses attack my computer.
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