Where does the word "dozen" come from ?

en.wikipedia.org...

Dozen is another word for the number twelve. The dozen may be one of the earliest primitive groupings, perhaps because there are approximately a dozen cycles of the moon or months in a cycle of the sun or year.

I don't believe this. We should be using the number 10, 10 fingers. Unless :

Goliath from the bible:

And there was again war at Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes , four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.

The stories about giants (aliens, "fallen angels") , Atlantis, ancient wars must be true and "dozen" is something from those times. The Aztec story of the bearded god that taught them "civilization", and they were expecting bearded men to return.

So what I presume : a great war or cataclysmic event happened, this race of giants were almost extinct. They started civilization again : Mexico, Egypt, China. In all these places there are pyramids. Anyone wants to continue or knows more ? Or maybe a different theory ?


Polydactylism Ancient World

In Dostoevsky’s Brothers Karamazov there is a long and rather moving account of the servant Masha, to whom a child is born with six fingers. We are not told which hand was affected. Masha rejects the child in the belief, it seems, that it comes from the Devil. The phenomenon of six fingers or toes (polydactylism) in ancient art has received almost no attention from scholars, although it clearly existed in ancient works of art.

Polydactylism is a not-uncommon, inherited genetic abnormality, especially in closely interbred communities. It is less commonly encountered today, as cosmetic surgery in Western countries frequently eliminates the anomaly at birth. In the Bible we read that David’s nephew Jonathan (not Saul’s son Jonathan) slew a “giant” who taunted Israel. The episode resembles the story of David himself with Goliath, except that this giant had six fingers and six toes

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[edit on 1-2-2010 by pai mei]

[edit on 1-2-2010 by pai mei]

And also the twelve zodiacs. the word zodiac has the 'z' and 'd', but in reverse.

Also, I thought that the moon had thirteen cycles? I guess those cycles outstep the solar year though...

dozen
c.1300, from O.Fr. dozeine "a dozen," from douze "twelve," from L. duodecim from duo "two" + decem "ten" (see ten). The O.Fr. fem. suffix -aine is characteristically added to cardinals to form collectives in a precise sense ("exactly 12," not "about 12"). The dozens "invective contest" (1928) originated in slave culture, the custom probably African, the word probably from bulldoze (q.v.) in its original sense of "a whipping, a thrashing."

etymology

I'm not talking about "etymology". It's like saying "its' turtles all the way down". I'm talking : we should be using 10 and 5 not 12 and 6. We don't have six fingers. Those ancient "gods" seem to have six fingers.

If you done more resaerch you will find this

Latin: duodecim = twelve, with "duo, duae, duo"... for two and "decem" for ten... "duodecimus, -a, -um" stand for the twelfth...

In italian, too, they say dodici, meaning they droped the "u" of "duo" as in english. And in german, too, the "c" in units has changed to a "z"...

And finally in french twelve is called "douze" and a number about twelve is more or less a "douzaine".

reply to post by loner007


Ok ok, but why ? Read first post please.

Originally posted by pai mei
The stories about giants (aliens, "fallen angels") , Atlantis, ancient wars must be true...

My apologies, but that's where your premise, however interesting and imaginative...falls flat. You can't show us how that 'must be true'.

DOZEN = etymologically derived from the Old French : DOUZE - DOUZAINE (12, of 12) and ultimately derived from the Latin, DUO-DECIM (lit. 'two' + 'ten') cf: Italian dodeci ('twelve')

Most terran human societies count by means of base 10 systems because most terran humans have ten fingers (five on each hand)

Yet many ancient creator gods in various places around the world are shown often with six fingers on each hand, not 5.

Notice even in the Book of Genesis, Creation takes place in SIX days 9and the SIXTH day being the day that ADAM was created) with the 7th Day being a day of rest.

This might indicate a reason why often sacred numbers (e.g. sky divisions) were often based on 12’s not 10’s

We all know that thousands of Creation Myths from ancient times often state:: "The Creator gods came from the skies and made Mankind after their images".

There are several hundred Creation myths in the written literature that has been preserved over the millenia (even 2 in the Bible, Gen 1:1 – 24a and 2:4b to 4:26) and from all over the globe. They often tell of star gods who came to this planet and seeded life on our little piece of solar driftwood.

Often these creator gods and goddesses were portrayed as having SIX fingers and SIX toes…a good deal of them in fact.. Could they be a specific RACE that interbred with homo-sapiens-sapiens in antiquity for which these myths are a remote memory? (that’s what Von Daniken thought, at least !)

Here are some examples of gods with SIX digits.

The Story of the Tatunca Nara, recorded by Karl Brugger published in 1976 "The Chronicle of Akakor”

He is the chief of the Ugha Mongulala tribe of Amazonian Indians. In it, the Ugha Mongulala were visited by light-skinned Nordic gods who came from the sky in golden vehicles around 1300 B.C.E. The visitors came from a world called Schwerta, and they come once every 6,000 years to share their knowledge. "

In appearance, the strangers from Schwerta looked just like tall Nordic humans with thin muscular bodies and very white skin. Their faces were framed with bluish black hair. A thick beard covered their upper lip and the chin--but clearly flesh and blood.

But the decisive sign that distinguished the Ancient Fathers from man were the six fingers on each of their hands and the six toes on each of their feet, which according to the LEGEND, is the characteristic feature of their divine origin."

Certain deformities were considered signs of holiness or gods or both...

Pascal's wife, Hel, was an albino believed to be the daughter of the moon - their firstborn son, Chan-Balum, or Little Jaguar, has six fingers and six toes.

The mathematical system of both ancient Sumer, and Babylon /Assyria / Egypt was based on 12 when it came to religious-reckoning (sacred geometry etc.)— for example, the Babylonians and Egyptians divided the SKY into twelve parts each governed bya god (Egypt divided their territories into 12 units, like the modern day US Federal reserve System = as above, so below ).

The 24 hours in a day refer to a god with 6 fingers on each hand and 6 toes on each foot = total 24. Notice how the hour is divided into 60 minutes and each minute is divided into 60 seconds, and the circle of the Greeks and Egyptians was divided into 360 parts or degrees?

All based on the number 6...

Notice the weird fragment of a Statue of an unnamed Pharaoh in the Temple at Esna in Egypt. Count ‘em SIX fingers….

At Three Rivers in New Mexico some of the petroglyphs show gods with SIX fingers on each hand.

The Hopi Indians of North America have a Sky Goddess Kachina who has SIX fingers on each hand as well. Ditto for the Anasazi Petroglyphs, some of which have been dated to around 1100 AD

A petroglyph of a six digit hand can still be found in the Cave of the Giant Sloth, or Cueva del Milodon, in Chile

The Uros indians from LakeTiticaca say that at the beginning they had 6 fingers like their gods who came from the sky. In French : fr.wikipedia.org...

In southern Mexico and Guatemala, the god Kukulkan (=Viracocha, the Inca god of South America) is sometimes identified with the god Pacal Votan, whose son Chan Balan is always depicted e.g. at Palenque with SIX Fingers on each hand and SIX Toes on each foot...

The Peruvian Basalt Statues (some closely resembling the Easter Island Volcanic Moiai) often are depicted with SIX fingers on each hand.
Tangaroa is the Polynesian Creator God who separated heaven from the earth; yep…SIX fingers on each hand…

The Tiki Takai Status on the island of Hiva Oa in the Marquesas Islands in French Polynesia also had SIX fingers on each of their hands.

In 1895 there was unearthed the socalled Irish GIANT with six fingers alla Goliath (‘whose spear was as a weaver’s beam’) from County Antrim in Northern Ireland…

There is a region near Efes (Ephesus), Turkey, called "AltI Parmak" - many of the people there have historically had SIX fingers.

There are six digit people around the world still living today; popping up sporadically, but one tribe in particular in Ecuado the ‘violent’ Waorani that have regularly SIX fingers and SIX toes, and often with TWO sets of teeth :

The Waorani are notoriously violent and bloodthirsty : medically these Waroani have never been known to have developed any type of known cancers or cardiovascular disease; nor any high blood pressure; nor allergies; and none of the known degenerative diseases familiar to us. The ones who were not slain by one of their tribesman in an outbreak of violence leave to advanced age.

One wonders what kind of blood these people have !

Interestingly perhaps, King James I of England (=James VI of Scotland) as well as Anne Boleyn were supposed to have had six fingers on each hand (Ann had a third teet on her breast as well, the so-called Wytches Teate) !

Also, the left foot of Oprah Winfrey....you guessed it, SIX toes.

It is possible that in many cases the process close inbreeding (especially between royal families in many cultures) has produced a reason for this anomaly of 6 fingers/toes which normally is 'recessive'.

But one does wonder about all those gods' statues....and the EBE reports from so-called Abductees who claim their 'abductors' had six fingers on each hand...and even used implements with SIX indentations on their dash-boards to fly their Craft...

The things that make you go hmmmmm...especially nowadays

Astronomy makes much more sense than counting on your fingers and toes.

I feel like the title of the thread is justifying these responses, OP.

Perhaps it should be titled: What is the hidden history of the prevalent division of 6, or twelve, aka 'Dozen' seen in ancient times through to modern ones.

Or something like that.

The D and Z sounds made me think of ''deosil'' or ''deiseal'' which means "sunwise" and also "clockwise".

Why do kids in the New York public housing projects play a game called dozens?

ahahah yeah I hate the word 'dozen', it's always confused me abit.

Even more, I hate the word 'several'. I always think it means seven.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by pai mei
The stories about giants (aliens, "fallen angels") , Atlantis, ancient wars must be true...

My apologies, but that's where your premise, however interesting and imaginative...falls flat. You can't show us how that 'must be true'.

Of course I can't show you. I am just a man on a computer. Don't have money to dig for real. I am not trying to prove anything. I came with this theory just for myself. This being a conspiracy forum I can write it here for more people to see, maybe add something for a better view. Science : first imagine then find the proof. Einstein "imagination is more important than knowledge".

Anyone can change the title into "Ancient history behind the word "dozen" ? Can't edit anymore.

[edit on 2-2-2010 by pai mei]

Originally posted by pai mei

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by pai mei
The stories about giants (aliens, "fallen angels") , Atlantis, ancient wars must be true...

My apologies, but that's where your premise, however interesting and imaginative...falls flat. You can't show us how that 'must be true'.

Of course I can't show you. I am just a man on a computer. Don't have money to dig for real.

I don't have any problems with imaginative ideas, because that's where the fun is. However, they must be tested every step of the way to be soundly investigated, and you can't hammer the truth until it fits your theory (I wish one could...it would save me from going through a lot of documentation concerning a certain priest in New France...but I digress).

I simply recognise words and phrases like "must" and "can only mean that"...which are signals of intuitive leaps. That's where ideas get rickety and are no longer solidly supported...therefore any subsequent conclusions must remain suspect.

I'm not a cynic...I'm a realist, and the reality is that the truth can be every bit as exciting and ultimately a lot more satisfying. So keep on thinking outside of the box, but don't get stuck there.

reply to post by pai mei


I wanted to thank you for your posting. The discussion of 10 vs 12 based on 5 and 6 has been a revelation. Your posting resolves in my own study some issues that have kept me from furthering my own study. While the finger and toe difference between humans and the Star Gods existed and that humans are a 5/10 and Star Gods who are Alien or Reptilian in origin are 6/12 has allowed me to separate out into 10/12.

Now that you have given me something to work with I somehow sense on something else that just came to mind and that is it will somehow explain the bible's use of 666 and how that relates to the coming, human looking Anti-Christ.

Anyway, I truly appreciate your posting. It was great food for thought. Thanks.

enwikipedia.org...

Being a versatile denominator in fractions may explain why we have 12 inches in an imperial foot, 12 ounces in a troy pound, 12 old British pence in a shilling, 12 items in a dozen, 12 dozens in a gross (144, square of 12), 12 gross in a great gross (1728, cube of 12), 24 (12 * 2) hours in a day, etc.

dictionary.reference.com...

Origin:
1250–1300; ME dozeine < OF do(u)zaine, equiv. to do(u)ze (< L duodecim) + -aine (< L -āna) -an

I've also read from two sources that 12 is a convenient way to count because the 4 fingers on each hand are divided into three segments by the knuckles. Allowing an individual to count to 12 on one hand, 24 with both. I don't know if I agree with that, however.

I'd say wikipedia's reasoning would be a good guess; when you get into measurements (length, time, etc.), 12 is a good number to work with.