Obama High Speed Trains - Boondoggle !!! Fox News Scoop!

reply to post by ownbestenemy

Viable economical alternatives arise via free market choices not by an all knowing Federal Government.

I agree, but it is the federal government that should be working on the infrastructure of this country, kinda goes along with having a federal government. Interstate roads, and Railroads are exactly what the government should be doing with our money.

It is not the job of the Government to provide the means to help people find places of employment. I know this is where our roads part different ways and that is fine, but seriously you want a highly incompetent bureaucracy to be the sole bringer of jobs?...

(deleted complete idiocy that the right portrays anyone left of them as lazy people wanting a handout)

No but it is the job of the government to facilitate interstate commerce. Infrastructure projects like High Speed Rail works to help facilitate that commerce, thus allowing people the opportunity to find private sector work.

Not all of us on the left want a handout, we want the opportunity to be able to better our own situation. Cheap reliable public transportation can facilitate that. Enabling people to afford more.

As I see it now:
Ridership in the beginning will be INSANELY low and thus there is yet another chance for a government subsidy program.

I agree, at first ridership would be low. The New York subway system has proven that a reliable efficient public transportation network can exist and work well for a population.

The subsidy will either be directly to the 'company' that runs the high-speed rail or in some stupid lie of a 'tax credit'. (Thus another addition to our already impossible tax code). Then, ridership will go up a bit and possibly to a modest amount, but the subsidies and/or tax credits will never go away thus creating yet another pit for government to drop tax dollars into with no regard to honest administration.

Or they could run the company like any other start up company, and grow as demand dictates. A line here to there, adding onto it as the demand grows. With the ultimate goal of connecting every city in the US with light and high speed rail. But do it slowly, over time, put rail where traffic congestion is the worst, and run it during peak times.

That isn't a viable alternative when the government basically 'bribes' you via tax credits. Granted it is speculation, but you also have dabbled in speculation that the idea would be a great hit and that we will eventually need it

Yes that was speculation, I also don't think it will be a great hit, I just think that it's a needed infrastructure improvement that would benefit America over the long haul. We will eventually require it, but the problem is, if we build it down the road, it will be more expensive.

[edit on 2/1/2010 by whatukno]

I gave up driving in LA 3 years ago.
I go down to LA for doctors appointments at the VA hospitals and clinics and i would have to go hours early to beat the traffic.

I now drive to Lancaster Calif and ride the metro-link train down and beat having to deal with the freeways.

If this high speed rail goes in the last plan has it going through mojave calif and i could pick it up there and save even more time and money.

As i am service connected i get travel money from the VA for my trips to the doctor.
Live 150 miles from the VA hospital and get $126 travel.
It cost me $40 gas to drive to lancaster and back home.plus 21 dollars for the metro link ticket. So every time i use the train i collect $60+ for my trip that i save. Plus the wear and tear on my old 1974 Mercedes 280.

Originally posted by whatukno
I agree, but it is the federal government that should be working on the infrastructure of this country, kinda goes along with having a federal government. Interstate roads, and Railroads are exactly what the government should be doing with our money.

I am in agreement but I do not see our current state of affairs being able to handle balancing a budget let alone start up some venture that will be more red-ink in the books. "The house is in disarray so lets just build an addition so we can pile more stuff into it" has been the long thinking of both parties, left and right.

No but it is the job of the government to facilitate interstate commerce. Infrastructure projects like High Speed Rail works to help facilitate that commerce, thus allowing people the opportunity to find private sector work.

Agreed that Government should work to facilitate interstate commerce. Opportunity is not created by Governments; it should be merely protected. Laying it in the hands of Government only emboldens that very Government that they are the means to the end.

Not all of us on the left want a handout, we want the opportunity to be able to better our own situation. Cheap reliable public transportation can facilitate that. Enabling people to afford more.

As for the first part of this paragraph, I do not personally believe all those that are on the 'left' seek handouts. I have seen equally on both sides of the aisles the 'gimmie' attitude and it knows no political affiliation.

The opportunity is already there. You have the freedom to choose where you live and how you get to point A from point B. Cities and States that have good public transportation were brought about because of the power of local level politics, not by some mandated requirement by the Federal Government.

I agree, at first ridership would be low. The New York subway system has proven that a reliable efficient public transportation network can exist and work well for a population.

A system such as the New York subway works because the vast majority of people live on Manhattan. There are those that also commute from surrounding communities but we are talking about what? 20-40 mile radius? In such a small area a high-speed rail isn't going to work as it will be inefficient. The two are apples and oranges and cannot be compared.

Or they could run the company like any other start up company, and grow as demand dictates. A line here to there, adding onto it as the demand grows. With the ultimate goal of connecting every city in the US with light and high speed rail. But do it slowly, over time, put rail where traffic congestion is the worst, and run it during peak times.

You mean like Amtrak? Or the Post Office? Or any other Government agency for that matter?
A government subsidized business or government ran business does not follow a business plan. They do not rely upon balanced books, profit, or any other business model. They do not have to fight for customers' business as more than likely that business is a monopoly.

Their budgets are based on tax revenues. An endless supply of money that is separated from a normal free market as it requires nothing more than legal robbery to fund.

---

I am not quite sure on the equation of your thinking in regards to interstate commerce though. Freight is the largest part of that market and via airplane, trains and trucks it is highly efficient. People that need to go large distances for meetings or other business trips will fly or now, with better telecommuting capabilities will hold those meetings via Internet technologies.

A small portion of society will actually utilize high-speed rails to work in location A and live 90+ miles away in location B.

I still contend that the monies proposed for such a project would be better served fixing our highways, bridges, build more efficient airports, etc.

This is just asking already strapped cities and States to foot the bill for a pet project.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012

It's just another money pit.
A slush fund. Just another "vehicle" to redistribute money.

This is a pipe dream Politics has offered on and off again for some time. The theory being we're behind Asia's Oriental Express, which they'll mirror some of the plots in the novel of the same title.

You're right, they'll shift money, and although it will go for transportation, it'll be so some drunk fool can be entertained at another bar with a strippers act.

I found it fascinating with the way the Public at Large embraced his restructuring plan, they'll use their imaginations to visualize this "Great" transportation system; which surely will remain a blue print for decades, as it has already.

reply to post by eyecatching


Your response reminded me of the Tower of Babylon.

Yes, expansion of business is required people, not government.

Government is a detriment to business. If you over staff management in any endeavor, what happens? Yeah, obvious when you think of government in that analogy.

I believe the US has reached the point of the Weeble Wobble theory. Kind of my idea-

When a government or a business has more at the top (government/welfare/administration) than the bottom (citizens/workers), the inevitable tipping occurs, then the business or government must adjust. Then they right themselves, this goes on for awhile. If it does not correct, the weeble ceases to exist.

How do you like my theory?

Not a fan of Fox news but when I see something so easily and reasonably explained in laymens terms no matter what side of the fence you are on, you have to agree with this guy. Great job!

Gas prices will not remain low forever. When they were recently high, rail travel by Americans increased substantially.

Talk about a boondoggle,
If we can spend 2 Billion$ per week on our wars on terror, why not a rail system that would also help become less dependent on oil as well as reduce shipping costs for commerce as well as passengers ?

I have been fortunate enough to have traveled by high speed rail across Germany , France , Austria and Switzerland and it was luxurious, stress free travel. You have a nice comfortable seat or cabin that you can stretch out on. You can get a real meal, and not some microwaved aircraft food.

I have also flown domestically and internationally for business as well as for pleasure and comparing the two, the Euro trains were Much better than the cramped and stuffy planes. Business class was the only salvation, but who wants to pay for that ?

The two hour trip , is somewhat overkill for high speed rail and his point is understandable but, these trains also travel well in excess of 100 mph so a 2 hour trip by car @ 60-70 mph would really be about an hour or half the time by high speed rail.

Americans are still under the disillusionment of unlimited cheap oil.
When it was oozing out of every crevice in Oklahoma and Texas that was true. But times have long since changed.

Heaven forbid we ever have a major mid east conflict, where we couldn't get our oil delivered to our shores, the country would come to a standstill in a matter of days.
If we had a decent rail infrastructure to fall back upon for travel, we would not be nearly as severely impacted.

And what about the hour long delay to board the high speed train? You know if terrorists want to blow up planes then they'll also want to blow up trains. Right? So people will have to strip and bend over before they get on the train. Could be fun!

Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by seattletruth
Personally I think Fox news is a sham, but I agree with their analysis on this.

Comparing a high speed railway to interstate highway infrastructure, and what it can DO for America is not a good analogy at all. High speed railway would be a complete waste of money in USA.... It might shuttle a few workers.... Big whoop. Not worth billions.

It would not help America "grow". We need JOBS for that to happen....

I'm glad you agree with the Fox News Business analysis.
You will NOT hear this truth on MSNBC because they are on
Team Obama. MSNBC "cherry picks" the news.

What's with you and your hate towards Obama? I understand you dislike his practices and what he is doing, but doesn't mean you have to bash him as a person altogether.
I myself think he's doing a better job than Bush.

And now, something really different.
I happen to live in Tampa and when I have a notion to travel to Disney, Universal, MGM Studios, SeaWorld, ad nauseum, I get in the truck and drive.
45 minutes to the front gate at Disney, another 10 minutes to Universal,(Halloween Horror nights are a blast) and so forth.
To use a bullet train, I would have to go to downtown Tampa, buy a ticket, wait in line to go through security, then hire a cab when I get to Orlando, all the while worrying about return schedules.
I don't have a clue about the elapsed time of a one way trip, but I forsee it being more than the 45 minutes I now take to go A to B.
If you are worried about people that may use the train for their daily commute, They still have to get to the terminal, so then we have the same gridlock in the same place.
As to the probability of use for commuting, not likely.
During the summer months, it rains like hell with the accompaniment of deadly lightning, most days and the storms are delivering their power right around, you guessed it, rush hour.
And in the winter, we are a laughable bunch. We just went though a period of consecutive cold weather days, (record breaking) where the high for the day failed to break 60 degrees. We were bundled up in our parkas as if we lived in the Arctic, so we won't be on platforms waiting for a gee whiz train when the car we have to have anyway, is sitting in the driveway.
And if you think the tourists will use it to go to the beaches in Clearwater, let me be the one to inform you that it ain't gonna happen as there are no tourist type beaches in Tampa. There is Ben T. Davis, a dog beach at best on the causeway.
Now I'm not against high speed rail per-se, I just think it is a boondogle here.
See, like I promised, something different. Stayed on topic, no mention of FOX, and no insults.

Originally posted by Cowgirlstraitup7
Not a fan of Fox news but when I see something so easily and reasonably explained in laymens terms no matter what side of the fence you are on, you have to agree with this guy. Great job!

Stuart Varney was the perfect guy to shut her down with her
planned "speech" about High Speed Trains. It's a farce.
Stuart explained it so easily and reasonably that you would have to be
a "cool aid" drinking lefty to not see and hear the simple truth.
-- 10 years and $3 Billion to build that simple short run in Florida!!--
OMG! It IS a money pit!
-----------------------------------------
I can see the email probably sent out of Washington D.C.
OK, who wants some free money? OOPS! I mean high speed train?
Wow! Look at all the responses we are getting from the bankrupt
states!

reply to post by LAUGHING-CAT


I'm glad you brought that up!
This high speed train is looking even worse.

reply to post by Koolcdj69


I first read your name as "Koolaid".
Obama has done everything wrong his first year.
I'm glad he only has 3 years to go.
The economy was great under George W. Bush.
Look at it now.

[edit on 1-2-2010 by Eurisko2012]

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by Koolcdj69

 

I first read your name as "Koolaid".

Obama has done everything wrong his first year.
I'm glad he only has 3 years to go.
The economy was great under George W. Bush.
Look at it now.

[edit on 1-2-2010 by Eurisko2012]

Wow nice joke, what are you a child???
And 1st of all, this recession was also around during both off Bush's terms, in fact it started during his terms.
I understand you like Republican views, but don't bend the truth to your liking.
O'bama inherited Bush's mistakes, that however does not excuse bad actions.

Ha, and this from the same guy who said the Iraq war was 99% over and would be over by Oct. 2008.

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by eyecatching

 

Government is a detriment to business. If you over staff management in any endeavor, what happens? Yeah, obvious when you think of government in that analogy.

***

I believe the US has reached the point of the Weeble Wobble theory. Kind of my idea-

***

How do you like my theory?

It's an accurate interpretation. I've heard many complain of the new "Socialists" envoy the gov't is perpetrating. Where, the top tiers are supplanted with upper echelon insiders, who have no intention of 'sharing the wealth'.

It's sad, but most seem to be entertained by the notion they're going to ride the gravy train because they're given a few 'buzz' words to reiterate; and therefore feel there a part of what's taking place.

I think we're in for a bit of a shock. Your weeble-wobble theory hopefully will apply and things will right themselves. However, I feel the market shares will ripple into the inflation numbers, and wreak havoc on holdings. That's just me, of course, and I've been wrong on many occasions. Maybe again.

Double Post deleted.
Browser crashed.


[edit on 1-2-2010 by eyecatching]

Originally posted by Koolcdj69

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by Koolcdj69

 

I first read your name as "Koolaid".

Obama has done everything wrong his first year.
I'm glad he only has 3 years to go.
The economy was great under George W. Bush.
Look at it now.

[edit on 1-2-2010 by Eurisko2012]

Wow nice joke, what are you a child???
And 1st of all, this recession was also around during both off Bush's terms, in fact it started during his terms.
I understand you like Republican views, but don't bend the truth to your liking.
O'bama inherited Bush's mistakes, that however does not excuse bad actions.

Ha, and this from the same guy who said the Iraq war was 99% over and would be over by Oct. 2008.

That "inherited" childish excuse won't work anymore.
It has been a year and Obama has only made it worse.
Did you even watch the video???
Do you agree with the high speed trains -boondoggle-?
--------------------------------------------
FYI, American troops are moving from Iraq to Afghanistan.
We won the Iraq war in spite of Harry Reid your hero.
"The war is lost." What a fool.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by Koolcdj69

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by Koolcdj69

 

I first read your name as "Koolaid".

Obama has done everything wrong his first year.
I'm glad he only has 3 years to go.
The economy was great under George W. Bush.
Look at it now.

[edit on 1-2-2010 by Eurisko2012]

Wow nice joke, what are you a child???
And 1st of all, this recession was also around during both off Bush's terms, in fact it started during his terms.
I understand you like Republican views, but don't bend the truth to your liking.
O'bama inherited Bush's mistakes, that however does not excuse bad actions.

Ha, and this from the same guy who said the Iraq war was 99% over and would be over by Oct. 2008.

That "inherited" childish excuse won't work anymore.
It has been a year and Obama has only made it worse.
Did you even watch the video???
Do you agree with the high speed trains -boondoggle-?
--------------------------------------------
FYI, American troops are moving from Iraq to Afghanistan.
We won the Iraq war in spite of Harry Reid your hero.
"The war is lost."

What a fool.

That's why I said it does not excuse Obama's actions! But he did inherit quite a bit.
Well, it's hard to fix 8 years worth of trouble in Obama's one year of being a President. It doesn't work overnight.
No I did not watch the video, nor do I agree with the trains.
But you seem to be bashing Obama on him just for being democratic without reason.

And we never won the war in Iraq, do we have Osama?
I never said the war was lost, nor won. But 8 years worth of being there, we haven't come up with anything. The Taliban still rule their underground/

reply to post by Koolcdj69


Do yourself a favor and watch the high speed train video.
It's only 5 minutes long at America2050.org.
You might learn something.
What are you afraid of?
-------------------------------------
P.S. Your boys on Team Obama are in full retreat on the KSM trial
in New York City. They are a bunch of amateurs.
Reading rights to the underwear bomber was ANOTHER huge mistake.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by Koolcdj69

 

Do yourself a favor and watch the high speed train video.
It's only 5 minutes long at America2050.org.
You might learn something.
What are you afraid of?
-------------------------------------
P.S. Your boys on Team Obama are in full retreat on the KSM trial
in New York City. They are a bunch of amateurs.

Reading rights to the underwear bomber was ANOTHER huge mistake.

WTF is with you and Team Obama, how about you castigate me for just being a Democrat then, and every person is human regardless of what they do, if we didn;t read rights to everyone then we would BECOME the Middle East.

Just come out with it and tell me you hate Democrats, and if it's just towards then Obama then sure hate me for it too. It's just my view, no need to bash me for it.