Most U.F.O. skeptics are not open to the evidence

reply to post by Malcram


Are you here because you're genuinely interested in the UFO phenomena or because you like to debate just for the sake of it? Having seen some of your countless interactions with Rex I'm starting to wonder

reply to post by cripmeister


Yeah, I'm very interested that's why I'm here and a paying subscriber to shows about the UFO issue etc. But seeing as I don't have many new UFO experiences of my own, I mostly just tend to read accounts now etc., and scatter stars and flags, and I have long gaps between periods when I post.

I usually speak up on this specific issue because, well, it gets my goat and it's one of the main reasons I often stay away from ATS for months at a time.

If I just liked debating there are countless other things I could debate too, but nearly all my posts are on this issue, hence my signature.


[edit on 2-2-2010 by Malcram]

reply to post by Malcram


So posts like this one isn't a problem here on ATS? BS like that makes people avoid coming here.

Originally posted by cripmeister
reply to post by Malcram

 

So posts like this one isn't a problem here on ATS? BS like that makes people avoid coming here.

I'm not sure why you reply beginning with "So posts like this aren't a problem..." as I had already recognized your feelings about certain posts as being legitimate HERE

However, with regard to the specific post you use as example here, I'd have to disagree. That member must have had eyes like a hawk to spot that and must have been really studying the images carefully to see it at all, which is commendable. Thus I was quite impressed that they did so and the amount of work that they put into presenting it. A number of members thought it was a very interesting find and it certainly warranted investigation.

After carefully examining it, most members eventually concluded that it was probably something like dirt on the lens or a hot pixel, but this was not immediately obvious to many of them, so it definitely warranted a closer look. So no, I certainly don't see posts or threads like that one as ruining ATS.


[edit on 2-2-2010 by Malcram]

I was wondering why I couldn't see any posts by Malcram, as it seems he's the only person I have ever put on ignore since I've been here. I don't even remember why I did, all I know, is he's been the only one. I think I'm gonna take it off for a sec and see what you guys are going on about.

reply to post by TravisT


LOL Well, if you're still there Travis, let me refresh your memory.

I believe the last time we spoke was in an excellent thread that was very pertinent to this one and in which I was quite active and which you resented being created, it was called:

Debunking Pseudo-Skepticism: Common Fallacies

Our exchange was on pages 6 - 8, I believe. I don't recall having spoken to you since then, so perhaps that was when I made it to your ignore list, but I do recall that you, like Rex, don't much like threads discussing pseudo-skepticism, as it wasn't the only thread of that type you expressed your extreme displeasure at - "Can this thread just die?", were your exact words - so it's no surprise to me that I'm not exactly your favourite poster. It's probably best that you put me back on ignore, as I haven't changed my tune.

That thread was an excellent example of how such discussions are deeply resented and resisted.


[edit on 2-2-2010 by Malcram]

This is just my thinking about it... As far as I know there has been many fake sightings about those "things". How ever I do believe there is life in space and there is life with intelligence beyond our wildest dreams... But do they really make their existence so obvious for us to tape it..? And if they do for what purpose? And also I think many of those sightings are just our military top secret airplanes on testing. As I know there were many anti gravity test flights made by people and not Aliens... Most of them if not all until now unsuccessful...

reply to post by Academic painter


Good questions and sure they will make themselves so obvious for us to tape

This is because they can hide in plain sight. No matter how many pictures, videos, eyewitness accounts, trace evidence or radar reports there are, the skeptic will just explain it away.

So they probably know we have a primitive mind set about the universe so there's no need to hide.

I'm sure when they do land on the White House lawn they will be asked why haven't they showed themselves and they will say, We have been here everyday and we have recorded them on cave paintings to videos but the useful idiots on this planet just explained them away.

I have never been to the Great Pyramid in Egypt. I have seen pictures, video and heard eyewitness accounts but I have never been there. Now if I use the skeptics logic, I should be a Great Pyramid skeptic until I visit Egypt.

It's the same with Ufology.

If we can't use eyewitness accounts from pilots, police officers, high ranking government officials and more, abduction cases, radar reports, trace evidence, pictures and videos as evidence then what can we use?

reply to post by Matrix Rising

If we can't use eyewitness accounts from pilots, police officers and more, trace evidence, abduction cases, pictures, videos, radar reports and more as EVIDENCE, then what can we use?

The skeptic tries to belittle the evidence and they are flat out LYING about the evidence.

These things are not evidence because evidence can be proven for it to be evidence. These things can not be proven.

There have been eyewitness accounts, yes but how can you be sure these were alien things and not man made? without knowing the active secret testing being done, you can not rule this out.

Abductions could be non alien as well, military tests, etc, without knowing all of the details of what secret testing is going on all over, this can not be ruled out.

Aside from popular belief, Pilots, Police Officers and Military personnel do not, most likely, have knowledge of secret craft testing to be positive whether they were witnessing something terrestrial or extraterrestrial.

Same goes for trace evidence and radar reports.

There are many unidentifiable things out there in reports, pictures videos but that does not mean it is aliens when no one has knowledge of secret projects / testing on people that could also be going on.

Just as you can't definitely put the alien label on everything does not mean it automatically gets the terrestrial label either, so it becomes an unidentified case.

In order to be able to totally rule out terrestrial and point to extraterrestrial you would have to have complete knowledge of all secret projects from all secret agencies.

The skeptic does not try to belittle, they try to find the truth no mater what the truth would turn out to be, there are others that give skeptics a bad name that do try to belittle.

reply to post by Matrix Rising

If we can't use eyewitness accounts from pilots, police officers, high ranking government officials and more, abduction cases, radar reports, trace evidence, pictures and videos as evidence then what can we use?

It is not that you can't use these things, but you need to look at things from more than one side keep an open mind and not a closed one.

As I said, without knowing what secret projects are out there, there is no way you can discount it and definitely say it must be aliens, this is looking with a close mind. Aside from popular belief, no-one can say for sure what aliens look like.

There are human disfigurements that can in fact look like many of the drawings of aliens, but we know them to be disfigurements, otherwise they would be locked up as aliens for study.

You ask the skeptics to not have a closed mind which true skeptics do not, but you have a closed mind focused on these things being alien.

[edit on 2/2/2010 by AlienCarnage]

reply to post by Matrix Rising


Actually, the Great Pyramid had lots of believable evidence beyond a 2 pixel jpeg like most UFO pics. (I have never been there either, but I believe it is there.) Betty Hill was captured by a pyramid and that's how I know. Haven't you looked at that evidence?

How can you make such a comparison?

You're a step away from whipping out the "we used to think the Earth was flat" argument.

You state that aliens are undetectable by humans, because it is the skeptics that always dismiss the evidence and claim no aliens. But yet, skeptics or no skeptics, there is still no proof of aliens.
This is not the skeptics fault. Skeptics want aliens to be here too, it's just that we require a bit more evidence than what History channel tells us.

[edit on 2-2-2010 by spinalremain]

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
reply to post by Academic painter

 

Good questions and sure they will make themselves so obvious for us to tape

This is because they can hide in plain sight. No matter how many pictures, videos, eyewitness accounts, trace evidence or radar reports there are, the skeptic will just explain it away.

So they probably know we have a primitive mind set about the universe so there's no need to hide.

I'm sure when they do land on the White House lawn they will be asked why haven't they showed themselves and they will say, We have been here everyday and we have recorded them on cave paintings to videos but the useful idiots on this planet just explained them away.

I have never been to the Great Pyramid in Egypt. I have seen pictures, video and heard eyewitness accounts but I have never been there. Now if I use the skeptics logic, I should be a Great Pyramid skeptic until I visit Egypt.

It's the same with Ufology.

If we can't use eyewitness accounts from pilots, police officers, high ranking government officials and more, abduction cases, radar reports, trace evidence, pictures and videos as evidence then what can we use?

We can use all of them as we currently do. I see no problem there. Are you implying that we use the above evidence as a basis of fact?

Everyone on this website is aware of all the good cases. It's probably why we are all here in the first place. ie (these cases caught our attention and we decided to look onward).. I'm not understanding your declaration. Are you saying that the present, given evidence is sufficient enough to close the debate on alien visitation here; and that only skeptics stand in the way of that revelation?

If that's what you're saying, then you're going to have many arguments. We are all looking for the single piece of irrefutable evidence. Not the threee hundredth story of debris, or astronaut testimony. The golden truth does not yet exist in public light, but we are all looking for it. We just disagree on the validity of what will suffice.

To be 100 percent, completely honest with you, MR....... I must admit that if not a close encounter of the 3rd kind, that the only other way I would accept the alien hypothesis would be if there were a global disclosure project.

I realize that I am limiting my scope of belief here, but this does not mean that I dismiss all the evidence you brin g to the discussion. What it means is that, I see all your evidence and have seen the likes of all of it before, It's just that to be a believer (which I am) means nothing toward the scope of the actual truth. The discussion can only reach a conclusion of truth when either of the above 2 situations happens for me.

As this thread has shown though, the given evidence is already sufficient for some. This however does not mean that those who are not satisfied buy it, cannot have their "alien thirst" quenched. It's a matter of personal scrutiny, and it differs from man to man.

We do want the same thing in the end . ........... The truth

reply to post by Matrix Rising

I have never been to the Great Pyramid in Egypt. I have seen pictures, video and heard eyewitness accounts but I have never been there. Now if I use the skeptics logic, I should be a Great Pyramid skeptic until I visit Egypt.

It isn't at all like this. That you believe it is illustrates why you aren't a skeptic. Your critical thinking needs a workout.

Matrix Rising.

Do yourself a favour and watch this 5 minute video. It explains sceptisism in a really easy to understand way.



You won't be offered either pill until you are able to handle a different reality.

-m0r

Originally posted by Kandinsky
It isn't at all like this. That you believe it is illustrates why you aren't a skeptic. Your critical thinking needs a workout.

He never claimed to be a skeptic. Remember, he thinks that skeptics are somehow standing in the way of the truth.

He is treating this not as a scientific truth to be pursued but an evangelical call. Notice Matrix is not trying to prove aliens are visiting the Earth but trying to tell us why we should believe they are.

Hi Matrix Rising,

reply to post by Matrix Rising

Most UFO skeptics will probably never find enough evidence to convince them nor is being convinced probably in their best interest.

The believers who want a full disclosure believe they can handle full disclosure but it's probably not in the majority of this groups best interest either.

It's probably better that everyone sticks to their current reality, remaining a skeptic and somewhat a believer but never a knower.

Everything has a reason/purpose behind it by design.

Best Wishes!




[edit on 3-2-2010 by ET_MAN]

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

He never claimed to be a skeptic. Remember, he thinks that skeptics are somehow standing in the way of the truth.

He is treating this not as a scientific truth to be pursued but an evangelical call. Notice Matrix is not trying to prove aliens are visiting the Earth but trying to tell us why we should believe they are.

Wow, it's great that you're here Rex, to reinterpret Matrix's words for us and tell us what his real motivations are and what he really means - it saves us all from actually reading his posts ourselves and making up our own minds.

Let's review the stellar and tireless campaign you have carried out here to define Matrix for us, so that we don't have to form our own opinion. I think it should be chelated so that people can recognize just how much effort you put in to instruct us exactly what to think about other members:

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Matrix won't provide the evidence for his claims. He will repeat.... he will never... Because he doesn't believe... Frustrated he cannot.... he instead... He seeks to.... He has confused...

To be certain, it is not simply skeptics he is after, but anyone who exercises critical thinking. To Matrix there is... A close-reading shows that Matrix Rising is ... I'd recommend that no one engage Matrix Rising. He is not an honest debater... see what kind of debater he really is...

People like Matrix need... It is born of an insecurity.

Notice Matrix's obtuse response.... Now, Matrix Rising will respond that... he is not self-aware enough to... he is making this exact claim... In a response to Greeneyedleo, he says... He is not addressing... my earlier point about Matrix Rising's closed-mindedness... Matrix Rising already has his mind made up...

Notice too that he .... nor does he... Instead, he lectures [I had to smile at this. M.] and addresses other members ... He is not self-aware enough.... Matrix Rising not only.... he outright vehemently....Matrix's response to... my earlier point about Matrix believing....This demonstrates Matrix does not....he thinks...

To be sure, Matrix Rising does not want debate, he does not want discussion. He wants..... [He is] someone who is insecure in his beliefs [trying to] feel better about himself.

... everyone, skeptic and believer, can see right through Matrix Rising...

He does not believe... Matrix probably saw... and read into them his own prejudices...
Even if Matrix were....it will only demonstrate his closed-mindedness.

We have neglected to ask Matrix Rising, though I doubt he will... he ignores...

Watch...Matrix Rising is going to...Then he will....They will be little more than....

Wow, so not only can you tell us what he has said so we don't have to bother reading his posts, but you can even prophesy exactly what he is going to say, so we don't have to bother waiting for his future posts before we join you in your undoubtedly correct judgements of him. Amazing!

I apologize, I got exhausted compiling this 'Gospel according to Rex' at this point, at about page three, others will have to continue chronicling your epistle to the impressionable.

But t's so nice to have someone unbiased like you acting as master of ceremonies, playing to he gallery, whispering condemnatory asides, speaking ad nauseam about posters, rather than addressing them directly. Thank you.

How would we ever truly understand Matrix, if you weren't here to speak for him and about him?


PS 'Are you now, or have you ever been' the banned member formerly known as SaviorComplex?

SaviorComplex (R.I.P) Nov 13 2007 - April 3rd 2009 / DoomsdayRex April 3rd 2009 - the Present.

Are those dates right?

There is s striking similarity, but perhaps it's just coincidence or a suspicious mind gone mad

Doomsday Rex. 'Doomsday'. Biblical Armageddon. Rex, meaning King. King related to Armageddon. Jesus? Jesus, King prophesied to come at Doomsday, as Christian Savior.....SaviorComplex. Hmmmm.


[edit on 3-2-2010 by Malcram]

reply to post by Malcram


Actually, Rex is trying to help people by showing how Matrix operates. Matrix has done this over and over in the past, and there's no reason to doubt he'll continue to do so. It's not prophecy on Rex's part, it's understanding trends. Matrix has put up what amounts to the same exact thread at least three times now.

I gave up on it a long time ago, because there will always be folks like you who will defend any insane remark until their dying breath, and I realized my time was best spent elsewhere. But I give Rex kudos for fighting the good fight.

[edit on 2/3/2010 by EsSeeEye]

Originally posted by EsSeeEye

Actually, Rex is trying to help people by showing how Matrix operates.

Ah, that's an interesting idea. So, if we notice members who consistently operate in a way that we feel is destructive, unhelpful, or deceptive, then it's reasonable to try to "help people by showing how they operate".

I think you may be right. I'll bear that in mind.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by Malcram]