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China's strident tone raises concerns in West

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posted on Feb, 1 2010 @ 03:20 AM
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This doesnt frighten me. Only because Mao, said that it was inevitable that the west and china clash, that if not by war then by commerce and uniting with those that share communist goals to further the people's strength.

I have since I was a child understood the weight of numbers, and when I learned that every chinese citizen was required to spend 2 years in the military and forever after be ready, for the call to defend "the people", I have known one day the west and China would come to cross swords be it economic or out and out war. The Chinese have always been resilient, and will continue to be so, before our lauded "Civilization" was even pounding stone to build castles, this society had an advance grasp on politics, science, and medicine. I love Chinese history, culture, and have dedicated my life to martial arts and the philosophy of "We learn to fight to defend those that can not defend themselves".

However as I feel about my own government so I feel about theirs. Not to be trusted and only out for more power.

As every dynasty, empire or govt. has throught history, white, yellow, brown, consolidate ones power to secure more power.



posted on Feb, 1 2010 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by infinite
Most of their growth now comes from domestic consumption, the economy has been adapted during the "Great Recession." It is slowly drifting away from being dominated by American consumers.


You failed to mention the fact that the yaun is held at an artificial value, if it were allowed to appreciate like it should that would be a very false statement.

It seem's I need a second line - China? Sure - they have money but it's akin to a banker walking into a biker bar. What are they going to do, throw rice at our B-52's?

They will fall in line very soon - we have allowed them certian leeway up till now, the offer for a handshake has been retracted and they will be put in place.

If they don't like the arms sale they will support our sanctions - they have to choose as they can't have both. Welcome to the world stage Chicoms - give us Iran or we arm one of your territories.

That's how America rolls.


[edit on 1-2-2010 by crisko]



posted on Feb, 1 2010 @ 03:32 AM
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So this is the way Obama is going to bring back jobs to the US.

Get china mad at the US to the point they cut trade with us then US companies will have to return to the US with there factories.

Good idea except china does not like Taiwan and they still do business with each other.

We would have to bomb china before they would quit sending us there junk.




posted on Feb, 1 2010 @ 03:40 AM
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Originally posted by crisko
It seem's I need a second line - China? Sure - they have money but it's akin to a banker walking into a biker bar. What are they going to do, throw rice at our B-52's?


I do love jingoistic Americans. Surprised you did not advocate nuclear strikes


So, if the Chinese government liquidated all its US Treasuries and Dollar reserves, you think Uncle Sam will still be strong? It would trigger a global sell off.



posted on Feb, 1 2010 @ 03:44 AM
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reply to post by ANNED
 


That's not it at all. The new balance of power is forming U.S. and the E.U. and then Russia & China. I predict Japan will gravitate towards China and Australia will fall in line with the west.



posted on Feb, 1 2010 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by infinite
I do love jingoistic Americans. Surprised you did not advocate nuclear strikes


So, if the Chinese government liquidated all its US Treasuries and Dollar reserves, you think Uncle Sam will still be strong? It would trigger a global sell off.


I meant over Iran, what can China do? Not a damn thing.

If China wants to dump the dollar, go for it - would only tank the world economy again and then every country in the world would be against them - as trade is based on the, you got it, dollar.

China has shown it's hand to soon. Expect the U.S. to work more closely with India regarding trade as we contain China - they got too aggressive too soon. Zero force projection and a hostile attitude towards the U.S. - they will soon find out what that earns a country.



posted on Feb, 1 2010 @ 04:08 AM
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reply to post by Zosynspiracy
 


The Chinese are a bunch of morons. They just keep taking it and taking it. Buying our debt. I wonder who REALLY is pulling the strings behind China's government.


Your quote from the thread found here: source


The US government are a bunch of idiots. The Chinese are a very powerful country. Plus the Chinese are our biggest trading partner and own our debt. It's almost as if itching for a fight........are we as Americans that stupid?


Would the real Zosynspiracy stand up?

And no, I'm not just picking on you - I'm using your post(s) to make a point.

The average *Western* man doesn't have a CLUE about China, it's people, it's culture etc.

Until the *Western Man* (and Western politicians) grow up and start to realizing the USA is NOT the top dog, and, there are other cultures out there far older, far wiser, and most important far more patient - This is the kind of kick back discussion and understanding that proves one thing and one thing well - Chinese superiority in more ways than most people even have a clue.

If you look around the world at the *Chinese Outposts* you'll see what I mean also.

Take a look at the recent Chinese invasion of every other county - the population explosion of Chinese throughout Europe and southern Europe alone is startling.

Put your money on this. China's just siting back and waiting, being patient.

When China decides to put it's foot down the Western world wont even know what hit them.

Start practicing up with your chopsticks boys...

peace



posted on Feb, 1 2010 @ 05:24 AM
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Is it possible that they have been planning for several major conflicts all this time?

Review shows dramatic shift in Pentagon's thinking


The last major review was released in 2006 and the Pentagon's view of the world has changed dramatically in the four years since.

The 2006 review was heavily focused on the threat of a large-scale conventional war with China and that country's saber rattling over Taiwan. It also stressed the need for more of and a greater role for special forces troops for use in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The 2010 review still stresses the threats from China, but will look at the need to defend against a growing threat of cyber attacks -- without directly tying China to past cyber attacks, according to Pentagon officials -- and China's focus on preemptively striking and crippling an adversary's ability to tell what it will do next ahead of a large attack.

"Prudence demands that future conflicts could involve kinetic and non-kinetic (use of explosive weapons and laser weapons) attacks on space-based surveillance and communications," according to the draft.


China, Iran Prompt U.S. Air-Sea Battle Plan in Strategy Review

Quadrennial Defense Review



posted on Feb, 1 2010 @ 06:24 AM
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I was glad to come online and find this thread here as I just came across the following and thought it should be on ATS but am on my way to bed and didn't want to have to start it's own thread.
(Too many threads going around at the moment that really ought to part of the one main broad issue in one thread I believe).
It fits in here perfectly and might I add thanks OP for a wonderful discussion on an important topic.
I was starting to despair of real content with meaningful intelligent discourse on these boards lately,thanks to all posters too.

Game Changer: China Plans to Open Military Bases Worldwide

China mulls setting up military base in Pakistan BEIJING: China has signaled it wants to go the US way and set up military bases in overseas locations that would possibly include Pakistan. The obvious purpose would be to exert pressure on India as well as counter US influence in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Well, why not? China already pays for our military imperialism by loaning us the money to play soldier. So, why shouldn't the world's new Superpower just cut to the chase and open their own bases?



Setting up overseas military bases is not an idea we have to shun; on the contrary, it is our right. Bases established by other countries appear to be used to protect their overseas rights and interests. As long as the bases are set up in line with international laws and regulations, they are legal ones. But if the bases are established to harm other countries, their existence becomes illegal and they are likely to be opposed by other countries. China develops its military force with a theme of peace in mind. Therefore, we can either develop military forces domestically to maintain peace, or place the forces abroad as long as we take world peace as the ultimate goal.



Needless to say, The Cato Institute is having a cow over this "revolting development:" The lay reader should be clear that the United States does not look favorably on China’s developing the ability to guarantee its own smooth trading; we like having the leverage to determine, ultimately,whether we will allow foreign countries to trade.


Cato Institute

Personally I am tickled pink to see some one giving America a taste of it's own medicine.
All things in balance.
I feel a cynical smile lurking too re China's world peace intentions, hell, why not? since the U.s. is "liberating" Iraq and Afghanistan.

This is a world gone mad after all.
Roll on WW111 and lets get it all over with.
Things sure are speeding up these days.
S+F


[edit on 1/2/10 by asIam]



posted on Feb, 1 2010 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by masqua
 


Brilliant post.
You hit the nail on the head.
I think the whole world (public) is fed up with America tramping all over it like it's their right and back yard.It will be interesting to see the support China gets, which countries will welcome them in.



posted on Feb, 1 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by crisko
reply to post by ANNED
 


That's not it at all. The new balance of power is forming U.S. and the E.U. and then Russia & China. I predict Japan will gravitate towards China and Australia will fall in line with the west.



I would really hope that Australia would fall in the line with the West.
But we have a Prime Minister brown nosing China and Asia and going hell to leather in advancing our ties with them, that if push came to shove, I do believe he'd either play both sides or sit on the fence.

I don't think he would give a clear commitment, to the chagrin of most Australians, of course. IMO



posted on Feb, 1 2010 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by blujay
 


So true blujay it is all about a battle between the light which is rapidly fading to darkness and the light.

Sadly while some of us will win that war, and evolve above and beyond far too many are going to loose and be lost.

It's a shame people can't open their eyes and their hearts and their minds and question and think more.

Great addition!


Especially their hearts! It is too bad because we could change this whole thing in a heart beat. The majority won't ascend and on 12/21/2012 and they will wake up and wonder what all the fuss was about, nothing is happening!

The rest of us will be living happily in 5d!



posted on Feb, 1 2010 @ 07:34 PM
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Here is another update to the recent chain of events, which is slowly becoming a soap opera between the US and the Chinese. This recent arms sale is really boiling their bones, and plus, the recent military build-up around Iran who is one China's leading oil exporters must be driving them nuts. Hopefully, this soap opera doesn't turn into a Greek Tragedy.



CHINA yesterday intensified its attacks on the US government for its decision to sell $US7.2 billion ($8.14bn) of arms to Taiwan but was careful not to level similar criticisms at the recipient, the government in Taipei.

All the major Chinese media led their front pages and bulletins yesterday on the controversy, including headlines such as China Daily's "Beijing furious at arms sales".

The newspaper said that Beijing's scrapping of military contacts with the US and its warning of an end to co-operation on "key international and regional issues" comprised "its toughest response in three decades to US arms sales to Taiwan". It said: "China's response, no matter how vehement, is justified."

Luo Yuan, a senior researcher with the Academy of Military Science, said "the US action gives China a justification to accelerate its defence modernisation".


www.theaustralian.com.au...



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by Jakes51
This recent arms sale is really boiling their bones, and plus, the recent military build-up around Iran who is one China's leading oil exporters must be driving them nuts. Hopefully, this soap opera doesn't turn into a Greek Tragedy.


Here's the summary. The US wants total control over Iran's nuclear future, because of pressure from Israel. But china doesn't want tighter sanction at all (especially not ECONOMICALLY). China is afraid that'll jeopardize its "oil relationship" with iran. Remember, china has invested heavily in iran's oil infrastructure.

What I'm saying is the US made this move primarily not because it's trying to contain china from obtaining new oil supply, but because it wants iran's nuclear issue to be resolved immediately. That is why US admin made this move this soon, because israel doesn't want to wait anymore. But china doesn't get that particular message, that israel doesn't want to wait, and the US will push this through one way or the other.

One way or the other... that's the problem, it seems the US has made the choice, and it's leaning the other way. That's why the US now is moving this as fast as it could, forcing china to make a decision (the dalai lama thing nails it) and humiliating china to make statement, and then it could make preparation for "the other way".

If the us admin still wants to talk, it would not immediately reply with this.
US rejects China Dalai Lama warning

But china still doesn't get it. It replies with this.
China says still room for talks on Iran, West eyes sanctioning central bank

The us doesn't want to talk, it wants an answer, it won't let china dragging its feet regarding iran any longer.
If china caves in, the us admin considers that as a bonus, but I don't think they're counting on that, they alreay have a plan.



posted on Feb, 4 2010 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by Jazzyguy
 


And what would that be? The only reason I could see the US government pulling a stunt like this is to alienate the Chinese and cause them to do something that would "justify" us in walking away from our debt. I.e. some sort of military conflict. Either way this could be nothing but if it is more than nothing............



If you're right about this. The US elites are officially insane. Let's hope it wont go that far.

It Is Now Mathematically Impossible To Pay Off The U.S. National Debt



posted on Feb, 5 2010 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by Jakes51
So, is the honey moon over between the US and China? It is apparent that nations around the world are taking notice of a more influential China. It is clear that they are ratcheting up leverage for a confrontation with the West if the need arises.


I see this entire nonsense as nothing more than politics as usual, Jake51.

Threats, saber-rattling, and high-stakes Nuclear poker.

The difference between this sixty years ago and the current scare tactics?

Nothing more than different people in the same places within the United Nations.

The U.N. Exposed: How the United Nations Sabotages America's Security and Fails the World


Originally posted by Jakes51
At every table of world power and influence, the Chinese have forced their way to a seat. They have been making inroads in international business on every continent around the globe and are a force to reckon with. I have said before, that the US and others in the EU should be ever watchful of a resurgent China, and a China run by those who are ideologically opposed to western values and thought.


This is nothing more than the blockheads in the United Nations Security Council exchanging political rhetoric.


Quote from : Wikipedia : United Nations Security Council

The United Nations Security Council (UNSC) is one of the principal organs of the United Nations and is charged with the maintenance of international peace and security.

Its powers, outlined in the United Nations Charter, include the establishment of peacekeeping operations, the establishment of international sanctions, and the authorization of military action.

Its powers are exercised through United Nations Security Council Resolutions.

Permanent Members :

The Security Council's five permanent members have the power to veto any substantive resolution:

*China
*France
*Russia
*United Kingdom
*United States


Political talking points, scare-mongering, and the Nuclear threat being marched out.


Originally posted by Jakes51
When I mention it to family, friends, and acquaintances; I get the same old rhetoric that the Chinese are Capitalistic and practice a soft form of Communism than during the Mao era. So, I am labeled a fear-monger. However, in an instant, they can resort to their hard-line ways to route disruption and ideological differences among their own population, and what is to stop them from using that approach in international relations, as well? Nothing will stop them from resorting to old ways if provoked.


How lucky you are that your friends actually know a damn thing about politics.

My friends are idiots when it comes to politics, and these are people I like, who I'm calling idiots, God love them, because I am fed up with trying to enlighten them.

Why is it people in general are so stupid politically?

Because they're selfish, self-centered, and self-absorbed.


Originally posted by Jakes51
Now, getting to the crust of this latest development of the arms deal with Taiwan, and why the US went along with such a deal, given their financial relationship with China proper. Well, I see it as a strategic ploy to test the resolve of the Chinese with their new found role as the United States' seminal banking partner. How far can the US push China, until they resort to their old ways as an enemy of the the United States, and eventually cutting the money supply?


Jake51, I see this as nothing more than those in power, in the U.N. shaking the Nuclear boogeyman, to make people who know nothing about politics scared and who fall lockstep into trusting those in power to do the right thing.

Which both of know will never happen because after they rattle their saber's and get more funding, they wil allow a time to ellapse, and do it all over again.

This is nothing more than them shaking the money tree.


Originally posted by Jakes51
This latest move by the US is only testing the waters to see how far they can push the giant before it gives the world a knee-jerk reaction, and the US international license to harden the tone with China. So, in a sense, the chess game has started and the pieces are being strategically placed across the board.

www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 31-1-2010 by Jakes51]


In my opinion those chess pieces were placed a long time ago by people of nefarious means.

The men and women who give advice to President's are the men and women who get their goals followed, and their agenda is to scare the populace.

This would be Council on Foreign Relations and Henry Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski.

Tragedy & Hope: A History of the World in Our Time

Carroll Quigley: Our Tragedy and Their Hope


Does America Need a Foreign Policy?: Towards a New Diplomacy for the 21st Century


Amazon Review :

Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger asks a question in the title of his book Does America Need a Foreign Policy?

--

but there's really no doubt about the answer.

That's not to say it shouldn't be asked:

"The last presidential election was the third in a row in which foreign policy was not seriously discussed by the candidates," writes Kissinger.

"In the face of perhaps the most profound and widespread upheavals the world has ever seen, [the United States] has failed to develop concepts relevant to the emerging realities."

Kissinger tours the world in this book, describing how the United States should relate to various regions and countries.

This is not a gripping book, but it is sober, accessible, brief, and comprehensive--and an excellent introduction to international relations and diplomacy.

Kissinger has opinions on just about every topic he raises, from globalization (for it) to international courts (against them, for the most part).

He supports a vigorous missile-defense system:

"The United States cannot condemn its population to permanent vulnerability."

He opines on peace in the Middle East:

"Israel should abandon its opposition to the creation of a Palestinian state except as part of a final status agreement."

His claims are often eye-opening:

"There are few nations in the world with which the United States has less reason to quarrel or more compatible interests than Iran."

He is especially critical of domestic politics interfering with America's international relations:

"Whatever the merit of the individual legislative actions, their cumulative effect drives American foreign policy toward unilateral and seemingly bullying conduct."

The media has been a special problem in this regard, as it zips around the world in search of exciting but ephemeral stories, which are "generally presented as a morality play between good and evil having a specific outcome and rarely in terms of the long-range challenges of history."

Does America need a foreign policy?

Of course it does, and Henry Kissinger has done readers a service by outlining what a good one might be.

--John J. Miller


The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives


Amazon Review :

The former national security advisor is still a believer in geopolitics after all these years.

Like most foreign-policy aficionados weaned on the Cold War, Brzezinski (Out of Control, 1993) has been forced by the disintegration of the Soviet Union to broaden his perspective--but not very far.

He sees the US as the only global superpower, but inability to maintain its hegemony indefinitely means that ``geostrategic skill'' is essential.

To what end is not specified beyond the vague shaping of ``a truly cooperative global community'' that is in ``the fundamental interests of humankind,'' but in this genre, goals are commonly assumed rather than examined.

In any case, Brzezinski casts Eurasia as the playing field upon which the world's fate is determined and analyzes the possibilities in Europe, the former Soviet Union, the Balkans (interpreted broadly), and the Far East.

Like a grandmaster in chess, he plots his strategy several moves in advance, envisioning a three-stage development.

Geopolitical pluralism must first be promoted to defuse challenges to America, then compatible international partners must be developed to encourage cooperation under American leadership, and finally the actual sharing of international political responsibility can be considered.

The twin poles of this strategy are a united Europe in the West and China in the East; the central regions are more problematic and, for Brzezinski, not as critical in constructing a stable balance of power.

This updated version of East-West geopolitics is worth taking seriously but it is also an amazing example of how a perspective can be revised without actually being rethought.

(Radio satellite tour)

--

Copyright ©1997, Kirkus Associates, LP. All rights reserved



posted on Feb, 5 2010 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Great post! I hope you are right about the regular run-of-the-mill saber rattling and stiff rhetoric. However, crazy things have happened with nothing more than a minor insult. The world cannot afford a confrontation between China and US in any given circumstance. These latest developments may not be a prelude to war as I have gathered from your reply, but I do find it quite interesting given the recent thaw in US/Sino relations.

Now, I am not feeding into the fear tactics or the scaremongering, in fact, most of the time I shun it. However, I have taken notice of the recent chain of events, with the military build-up in Iran's backyard and the tit-for-tat between the US and China. Something big may be in the works? Hopefully, this is nothing more than fiery arguments between the two powers on the floor of the UN, and you are correct about it being saber rattling. Or, maybe, there is more than meets the eye?



posted on Feb, 20 2010 @ 10:18 AM
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[edit on 20-2-2010 by SLAYER69]



posted on Feb, 20 2010 @ 10:48 AM
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Swings and roundabouts friends. The Americans are selling arms to Taiwan which angers the Chinese, and the Chinese are selling hi tech riot control vehicles to Iran which is making America angry. China mistreats its civilians , has terrible jails and legal systems and is utterly disdainful of human rights which makes America mad, and America meets with the Dalai Lama which is a kick in the eye to the Chinese.
Lets face it. This is a diplomatic chess game. Its been up and down and round and round for a long time now, and further more theres not much hope of it changing any time soon.
This is not new , this is not unusual. Its the ebb and flow of one corrupt bunch of suit wearing twits, rubbing another bunch of corrupt suit wearing twits up the wrong way. SSDD.



posted on Mar, 25 2014 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Looking at this map again gives me shivers.

[The New Great Game


edit on 3/25/2014 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



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