China's strident tone raises concerns in West

China's strident tone raises concerns in West

www.msnbc.msn.com

China's indignant reaction to the announcement of U.S. plans to sell weapons to Taiwan appears to be in keeping with a new triumphalist attitude from Beijing that is worrying governments and analysts across the globe.

(visit the link for the full news article)


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Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
China has "Kill Weapon" to destroy US Carriers
China threatens sanctions over U.S. arms deal
Why America and China will clash

So, is the honey moon over between the US and China? It is apparent that nations around the world are taking notice of a more influential China. It is clear that they are ratcheting up leverage for a confrontation with the West if the need arises.

At every table of world power and influence, the Chinese have forced their way to a seat. They have been making inroads in international business on every continent around the globe and are a force to reckon with. I have said before, that the US and others in the EU should be ever watchful of a resurgent China, and a China run by those who are ideologically opposed to western values and thought.

When I mention it to family, friends, and acquaintances; I get the same old rhetoric that the Chinese are Capitalistic and practice a soft form of Communism than during the Mao era. So, I am labeled a fear-monger. However, in an instant, they can resort to their hard-line ways to route disruption and ideological differences among their own population, and what is to stop them from using that approach in international relations, as well? Nothing will stop them from resorting to old ways if provoked.

Now, getting to the crust of this latest development of the arms deal with Taiwan, and why the US went along with such a deal, given their financial relationship with China proper. Well, I see it as a strategic ploy to test the resolve of the Chinese with their new found role as the United States' seminal banking partner. How far can the US push China, until they resort to their old ways as an enemy of the the United States, and eventually cutting the money supply?

This latest move by the US is only testing the waters to see how far they can push the giant before it gives the world a knee-jerk reaction, and the US international license to harden the tone with China. So, in a sense, the chess game has started and the pieces are being strategically placed across the board.

www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)




[edit on 31-1-2010 by Jakes51]

The US government are a bunch of idiots. Yeah let's piss off the Chinese when Iran and North Korea are a thorn in our backside. Considering the state of the US economy that's a real genius move. My country is full of freaking idiots I swear. The Chinese are a very powerful country. If we went to war with them.........it would be total disaster.......regardless of whether we could "defeat" them militarily. I guess America can just take on the world right now right? LOL. Plus the Chinese are our biggest trading partner and own our debt. Wow........epic mistake pissing them off. It's almost as if itching for a fight........are we as Americans that stupid?

reply to post by Zosynspiracy

That is why I suspect the US admin DOES want the tension. They did that on purpose. Either that, yes, they're idiots. Or they know something that the chicoms don't.

reply to post by Zosynspiracy


I echo much of your sentiment as well. It appears that the US are poking sticks at the giant with this latest arms deal to Taiwan which will only escalate the cross straight conflict even further. It has been relatively quite between the two warring factions with Kuomintang on Taiwan and the CCP.

A Time Magazine article published in the August 11, 2008 edition of the magazine said that in less than three months' time, "relations between Taiwan and China have arguably seen the most rapid advancement in the six-decade standoff between the two governments. Ma launched direct weekend charter flights between China and Taiwan for the first time, opened Taiwan to mainland Chinese tourists, eased restrictions on Taiwan investment in mainland China and approved measures that will allow mainland Chinese investors to buy Taiwan stocks.

en.wikipedia.org...
www.time.com...

This seems like shaking a stick at the hornets nest? With acts like this someone is bound to get stung! It will be interesting to see how this reflects on the crisis between Taiwan and China, and by proxy the US. It would appear that a World War may be on the horizon and this time the US may be a major player in breaking the peace? I am in agreement with you that this latest move by the US may not be the brightest considering the new financial relationship between the two powers. However, time will tell what the repercussions will be for both sides.

Cant wait to see how Obama is going to handle this.
This may very well be one of those "moments" in History that he
will be remembered by. I hope for the sake of this nation, that
he makes the right choice.
What is the right choice?
I honestly dont know, I dont have the intel that he has, but if the choice comes down to LOTS of people dying vs nobody dying, I will take the latter.

My Opinion- We have enough wars going on right now, many of our family members are already fighting the fight abroad, and this nation is strapped for Cash. We are spread so thin that the only thing I can think that will save us is our technology. We probably do have the tech to take on a few nations at once, but I dont know how long our aresonal will last.
I could be wrong, I am probably wrong, I hope I am wrong.
We dont need this right now. Why do we have to keep stirring up the hornets nest?
This is Obamas chance, he better not @*@* it up.

reply to post by Jazzyguy


And what would that be? The only reason I could see the US government pulling a stunt like this is to alienate the Chinese and cause them to do something that would "justify" us in walking away from our debt. I.e. some sort of military conflict. Either way this could be nothing but if it is more than nothing............

If there is anyone on the planet that does not think the 'West' is preparing for a global war on all fronts, it's because they're not paying attention.

The advanced Patriot theater anti-ballistic missile batteries in place or soon to be in Egypt, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Israel, Japan, Kuwait, the Netherlands, Poland, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Taiwan, Turkey and the United Arab Emirates describe an arc stretching from the Baltic Sea through Southeast Europe to the Eastern Mediterranean Sea and the Caucasus and beyond to East Asia. A semicircle that begins on Russia's northwest and ends on China's northeast.

Over the past decade the United States has steadily (though to much of the world imperceptibly) extended its military reach to most all parts of the world. From subordinating almost all of Europe to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization through the latter's expansion into Eastern Europe, including the former Soviet Union, to arbitrarily setting up a regional command that takes in the African continent (and all but one of its 53 nations). From invading and establishing military bases in the Middle East and Central and South Asia to operating a satellite surveillance base in Australia and taking charge of seven military installations in South America. In the vacuum left in much of the world by the demise of the Cold War and the former bipolar world, the U.S. rushed in to insert its military in various parts of the world that had been off limits to it before.
www.globalresearch.ca...

China, ever growing in strength and wealth, is beginning to flex it's muscle on pet peeves and will eventually yearn for 'elbow room'.

There are two 'big boys' on the block now and, as usual, there's only room for one.

This is just more chest thumping and sabre rattling. The United States buys nearly 1/4th of all China's exports. There is no way the Chinese will go to war with the US and risk losing all that trade. Not to mention that the EU buys nearly 1/5th of China's exports and would likely lose most of their European trade if they went to war with the US. China is far more likely to attack India over their territorial disputes and that is remote at best. These words of war have been said over and over again for the last 60+ years.

China is not going to go to war with the West and potentially lose almost 50% of its export trading markets and the US has nothing gain in going to war with China. Nothing will happen as long as China can make money off the rest of the world. China will certainly not go to war over a few weapons.



The media is just trying to scare you. If you think that Chinese politicians and US politicians were not shaking hands and smiling as those weapons were sold you are sadly wrong. The chest thumping that China is doing is just for show.



Seriously, relax.













[edit on 31-1-2010 by A NeWorlDisorder]

reply to post by Zosynspiracy


I suspect it has something to do with iran's oil. Iran is one the world biggest source of oil. About 10% of china oil imports come from iran. China invests heavily in future iran oil structure.

Something isn't right here. If you're preparing for something bigger, you don't actually make the first move this soon.
The US must have something, otherwise they're not gonna do this I'm sure.

reply to post by Jazzyguy


Iran figures prominently in China's interest and a war between the 'West' and Iran will certainly upset that apple cart. The talk of such a conflict no doubt causes them concern.

China has also invested heavily in Africa too, particularly for oil in the Sudan. The problems there are not helping either. China needs oil imports or it can't progress. Cut those sources off and they will be in the same boat as Japan prior to WWII.

Originally posted by A NeWorlDisorder
This is just more chest thumping and sabre rattling. The United States buys nearly 1/4th of all China's exports. There is no way the Chinese will go to war with the US and risk losing all that trade. Not to mention that the EU buys nearly 1/5th of China's exports and would likely lose most of their European trade if they went to war with the US. China is far more likely to attack India over their territorial disputes and that is remote at best. These words of war have been said over and over again for the last 60+ years.


China is not going to go to war with the West and potentially lose almost 50% of its export trading markets. Nothing will happen as long as China can make money off the rest of the world. China will certainly not go to war over a few weapons.

The media is just trying to scare you.


Seriously, relax.

[edit on 31-1-2010 by A NeWorlDisorder]

Everything starts in stages. World War II began by the Nazi's invading Poland. I am sure people in that time thought it was of no concern, given that Hitler had already taken over much of Czechoslovakia, annexed Austria, and other baby steps of no consequence as some may have thought then.

So, I wouldn't get out of control yet, but this latest move with this arms shipment appears to be fanning the flames between China and Taiwan when in recent memory the two sides have remained quite and are slowly normalizing relations as I pointed out in a previous post. Everyone thinks the Chinese won't attempt a confrontation if provoked, and I say that is thinking with a western mindset.

The leaders in government have little concern for the people if war is declared and a severe blow is dealt in the realm of mass poverty, famine, and other social misfortune caused by a war. The history of China is centered around hardship. So, it is of no concern to them if it happens because they have experienced before on numerous occasion. However, I think it would be devastating for the US, because for much of the history of the country the people have lived with a semblance of peace, prosperity, and plenty. Any disruption to normalcy, on the scale of some of the misfortune China has had to endure in its long history, would cause severe unrest and anarchy. Can the US endure a domestic nightmare caused by economic breakdown caused by a World War, as well as, war on several fronts? That is why this little baby step concerns me and should concern you, as well.

Drawing parallels:

The American oil embargo caused a crisis in Japan. Reliant on the US for 80% of its oil, the Japanese were forced to decide between withdrawaling from China, negotiating an end to the conflict, or going to war to obtain the needed resources elsewhere.
militaryhistory.about.com...

Originally posted by Jakes51
This latest move by the US is only testing the waters to see how far they can push the giant before it gives the world a knee-jerk reaction, and the US international license to harden the tone with China. So, in a sense the chest game has started and the pieces are being strategically placed across the board.

#1 CHINA VS THE US: THE BATTLE FOR OIL (1/7)

This has been something I've been speaking about for some time. Many did not care to listen. Fine so be it. China will be a global power. They are not there yet.

YES, they hold a good percentage of US foreign debt. Many here claim that they could simply "Dump" their bonds and that would ruin our economy. Fat chance. Who would buy them? Nobody. Say they were to be able to sell them for less than they paid. Who would take a huge loss on that sale? China.

Who really owns most US debt?
Foreign Investment accounts for only 29% which
includes China, Japan and the rest of the world

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f8db83721788.jpg[/atsimg]

Source

China and others are buying US debt because, despite everything, the US is seen as relatively safe investment in uncertain times. (China also likes US debt because it helps keep Chinese exports cheap.) Countries that are a bit riskier will have that reflected in a sovereign debt rating and will have to offer higher yields. But they will still have buyers at those higher yields -- either private institutions or governments that are still net creditors.

Secondly, They do not have that great of hold "Over" the US as many here would have you to believe. The US wants a deal on the Iranian Issue. We scrap the sale if they agree to tighter sanctions. IMO

The recent sale of the Patriot missile systems are defensive. China shouldn't get too bent out of shape unless they had wanted to start a major air campaign soon against the Island.

Hillary Clinton warns China to stay the course on Iran nuclear sanctions

The admonishment from Clinton came on the same day the Pentagon announced more than $6 billion in arms sales to Taiwan, a move certain to infuriate Beijing and add a new complication to the U.S.-Chinese relationship.

Clinton, speaking at a leading French military academy in Paris, said that China and five other leading nations have been united to date in trying to dissuade Iran to halt uranium enrichment that they fear is aimed at acquiring nuclear weaponry know-how.

But now that China is balking at joining the others in a new round of United Nations sanctions, Clinton said, "China will be under a lot of pressure to recognize the destabilizing impact that a nuclear-armed Iran would have in the [Persian] Gulf, from which they receive a significant percentage of their own supplies."

She told an audience of military experts and officers at the Ecole Militaire that "we understand that right now it seems counterproductive to you to sanction a country from which you get so much of the natural resources your growing economy needs."

U.S. sells weapons to Taiwan, angering China

The Obama administration announced the sale Friday of $6 billion worth of Patriot anti-missile systems, helicopters, mine-sweeping ships and communications equipment to Taiwan in a long-expected move that sparked an angry protest from China.

The sale, formally announced by the Defense Security Cooperation Agency, is expected to prompt China to slow or even break military relations with the United States and cancel a visit by President Hu Jintao to Washington in April. Chinese officials have threatened other actions, including sanctions on the U.S. companies supplying the equipment or on businesses in the districts of congressional lawmakers known to be backers of Taiwan.

AND

China Warns U.S. Over Taiwan Arms Sale

BEIJING -- China angrily summoned the U.S. ambassador on Saturday and warned that a plan to sell $6.4 billion in arms to Taiwan would harm already strained ties. One Chinese expert said the sale would give Beijing a ``fair and proper reason'' to accelerate weapons testing.

The planned sale, posted Friday on a Pentagon Web site, is likely to complicate the cooperation the U.S. seeks from China on issues ranging from Iran's nuclear program to the loosening of Internet controls, including a Google-China standoff over censorship.

Cutoffs of military ties top the list of possible punishments that Chinese state media and academics have publicly discussed in recent weeks as Beijing repeatedly warned the U.S. against the arms sale.

In another 15 to 20 years from now they will over shadow the US. That much I'll believe but for now they may have to play ball for various reasons they cannot confront the US. China is currently not strong enough to do so. Militarily, politically and economically.

Secondly. Even when they do over shadow the US this does not mean the US will disappear. The present generation seems to either be too young to remember or simply doesn't know what the world or life was like with Multiple world powers.

The US, USSR and the PRC.

Or how most of human history has had multiple powers. The UK, France, Germany and all their colonies...etc Not only that the US has faced not only China before but have in the past face the Soviet Union and China during the cold war.

Now as far as the US being a "fading" power we will see.

Even with the universally accepted potential growth rates of the BRIC countries the US is also projected to grow and still be around. Just not #! somewhere around 2035 to 2050

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/48f569d5d902.jpg[/atsimg]

Here is an interesting perspective.
Will China and India conquer the world?

The continued rise of the emerging economies, particularly India and China, is never far from the headlines. What impact these economies will have on the twenty-first century is the subject of much debate, with the possibility of a shift in global political power a recurring theme. It is often assumed that the emerging economies are following the same path to development that the established economic powers did - but this assumption is worth questioning.

The coming shift in the balance of the global economy towards the East is not the result of a slowdown in the developed world; rather, growth in the developing world has, in part, been achieved through exports to the developed world. In return, the emerging economies have supported economic stability in the developed world and promoted growth in commodity-exporting regions such as Sub-Saharan Africa. This process has given rise to what are commonly understood as global imbalances: Western imports rise and cash flows to the developing economies in Asia and elsewhere - cash that is then used to purchase Western debt. That the initial process of unwinding these imbalances has so far been relatively painless, particularly in the developing world, is an indication of just how much the global economy has been altered by the rise of the emerging economies.

Nonetheless, while the emerging economies are growing rapidly, they will remain substantially poorer than other leading world economies for a long time to come.

This growth trajectory is very different from the experience of Britain, the US and other established economies. As such, speculation about the impact of the emerging economies upon global power politics should be kept to a minimum. It would be unwise to use the rise of nations during the nineteenth and twentieth centuries to provide a guide to the rise of the emerging economies in the twenty-first century.

The emerging economies’ potential impact upon global institutions and political power is far from clear. What we can say is that the story of the rise of the emerging economies is of the rapid spread of wealth and modernity to the world’s poor rather than of a simple shift in power politics.

The growth of the emerging economies so far

The Group of Seven leading industrial nations (or G7, made up of the US, the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and Canada) dominates the global economy – by almost any measure. These economies, in particular the US, are the primary source and destination of most foreign direct investment, trade flows and much more. Workers employed in the factories and offices of these economies are more productive than their counterparts in the Pearl Delta or Mumbai. And, since the International Monetary Fund (IMF) recently recalculated the adjustments needed to convert accurately the Chinese renminbi and the Indian rupee into the US dollar (rather than relying on market exchange rates), it has become clear that the wealth divide between the rich world and the developing world is even larger than was previously thought (1). The gulf between the developed nations of the G7 and the emerging economies of the BRICs (that’s Brazil, Russia, India and China) can be clearly seen in the chart below. It compares the annual income per capita in PPP dollars – dollars that have been adjusted for local price differences.

Just a little something to consider.

PEACE

Slay

reply to post by Jakes51


Wow OP good thread. I agree with another poster who basically said WTF, how stupid is our government?! How in debt are we to China? 350 BILLION dollars. What happens when China gets tired of Americas stupid games and ask for their money back? Idiots... All of them.

Make way for the kings of the east.

reply to post by masqua

Hold on masqua, I'm not so sure that the west is preparing for a global war. They might be just entrenching their position. But if there's gonna be a war, it'll probably center in the middle east.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
reply to post by masqua

 

Hold on masqua, I'm not so sure that the west is preparing for a global war. They might be just entrenching their position. But if there's gonna be a war, it'll probably center in the middle east.

More like...
Central Asia The oil reserves there shrink the gulf states to nothing. It will be the flash point of the future.

Undoubtedly Central Asia’s strategic importance in international affairs
is growing. The rivalries among Russia, China, United States, Iran, India,
and Pakistan not to mention the ever-changing pattern of relations among
local states (five former Soviet republics and Afghanistan) make the region’s
importance obviously clear. Central Asia's strategic importance for Washington, Moscow, and Beijing varies with each nation’s perception of its strategic interests.

Washington focuses primarily on Central Asia as an important theater in the war on terrorism. Additionally, it is viewed as a theater where America might counter a revived Russia or China, or a place to blunt any extension of Iranian influence. Moscow and Beijing view the region as a vital locale for defending critical domestic interests. This asymmetry of interest is

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d54f5ff0968c.jpg[/atsimg]

If you look closely at the above map you will notice the surrounding countries. Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Russia, China, and Pakistan. Both Iran and Pakistan are in "Play" We need our bad guys the "Taliban" back in the game. They tend to be pretty smart they don't want to hang around Afghanistan they tend to die there so they go back home to Pakistan.

Following me so far?

Pakistan pushes them back across the border so we can have our "Enemy". So we can still have an excuse to be in the Region.



China gets a huge chunk of it's oil from Iran. We are in Iraq and Afghanistan. China is desperate for oil.... Iran supplies that oil! It has supported their economic boom. Without it their boom goes bust. It seems a great way to keep in check the power that holds most of Americas foreign dept. Wouldn't you agree?

And they know it!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d473443d5a5f.jpg[/atsimg]
The fight with the "Taliban" is not supposed to end. It's an excuse to be in the region to be a player in the future of central Asia. Think of Good Cop/Bad Cop

Bush- Bad Cop!
Comes in through the front door guns a blazing. We are here to fight Terrorism! We take Iraq and invade Afghanistan.

Obama- Good Cop!
He will fix everything, Works all the back door channels. We stay in the region. Iraq war is pretty much over except for the occasional bombings. Doesn't really matter to us because they are mostly killing themselves. "HURRAY for Democracy" We increase our numbers in Afghanistan and decrease our numbers in Iraq.

The New Great Game


Following me so far?

Russia needs the oil reserves in the region to either stop or have very low production rates.

WHY?

Because they will be in direct competition with the future oil producers in that region! Russia's economy is desperate for the oil revenues. Apparently Communism was a flop! That's why. So that's their "Piece" in the "Game"

China needs oil desperately in order to keep the growth cycle going!
So they go around the world making oil deals. Venezuela Anybody?

WHY?

Otherwise despite "Pop culture" view that China is the new world power their economy grinds to a halt without oil. That's Why! So that's their "Piece" in the "Game"


The US will be a player like it or not We are the only ones with the means to reach around the world and touch somebody! That's our "Piece" in the "Game"

They are all unhappy especially Iran about having the US in their collective backyards and they all know they cant really do squat about it!

The games a foot.

Correct me if I'm wrong but who exactly was one of the first person Obama went to see early in his "Presidency"
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/52af45170224.jpg[/atsimg]

Understand what is really going on.

For further reference read the following.
Iranian revolt Explained - Wake Up!

AND

The New Great Game

[edit on 31-1-2010 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
I'm not so sure that the west is preparing for a global war. They might be just entrenching their position. But if there's gonna be a war, it'll probably center in the middle east.

The ME is just a stepping stone, imo.

There's a heck of an expenditure on military facilities worldwide.

The defense of America or for global control? you decide:

]The global reach of the US military today is unprecedented and unparalleled. Officially, more than 190,000 troops and 115,000 civilian employees are massed in approximately 900 military facilities in 46 countries and territories (the unofficial figure is far greater). The US military owns or rents 795,000 acres of land, with 26,000 buildings and structures, valued at $146bn (£89bn). The bases bristle with an inventory of weapons whose worth is measured in the trillions and whose killing power could wipe out all life on earth several times over.

www.globalpolicy.org... -is-still-expanding.html

According to the Pentagon's own list PDF, the answer is around 865, but if you include the new bases in Iraq and Afghanistan it is over a thousand. These thousand bases constitute 95 percent of all the military bases any country in the world maintains on any other country's territory. In other words, the United States is to military bases as Heinz is to ketchup.

www.thebulletin.org...

The reason for it:

Twenty years later, US strategists, in an attempt to justify their military interventions in different parts of the World, have conceptualised the greatest fraud in US history, namely "the Global War on Terrorism" (GWOT). The latter, using a fabricated pretext constitutes a global war against all those who oppose US hegemony. A modern form of slavery, instrumented through militarization and the "free market" has unfolded.



Major elements of the conquest and world domination strategy by the US refer to:

1) the control of the world economy and its financial markets,

2) the taking over of all natural resources (primary resources and nonrenewable sources of energy). The latter constitute the cornerstone of US power through the activities of its multinational corporations.

www.globalresearch.ca...

When China does 'push back', it will be an irresistable land force able to put millions of soldiers on the march. Their naval and air force are not yet so immense, but their grunts are quite capable of causing grief to neighbouring countries should they decide to play rough. No war is ever won on the ocean or in the air. It takes ground troops to overcome and hold secure... a lesson from Viet Nam, Iraq and which we are now learning in Afghanistan.

Great input, Slayer69

[edit on 31/1/10 by masqua]