Debunking the Deniers of Global Warming, page 6

reply to post by watcher73

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The red dots don't mean it's just hot - it means it's hotter than normal. It doesn't matter that it's summer those temperatures are still above seasonal.

Just calm down - this is the whole reason this entire topic is so convoluted - people get so worked up discussing it they can't even think straight. Relax.

reply to post by watcher73

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Again did you watch the video?? I mean thanks for the definition of reason and all but if you had actually watched the video you would see the definition of reason is pretty irrelevant too.

It has nothing to do with whether doubt is "reasonable" or not. It has to do with the fact that not taking action over something we're uncertain of is the worst move we can make.

Originally posted by mc_squared
reply to post by watcher73

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The red dots don't mean it's just hot - it means it's hotter than normal. It doesn't matter that it's summer those temperatures are still above seasonal.

Just calm down - this is the whole reason this entire topic is so convoluted - people get so worked up discussing it they can't even think straight. Relax.

My scribbles show us just what is normal over almost 500k years. Your red dots only show us whats not normal in the last 100 years.

And your so called "above normal" temperatures are actually well within the "norm" looking at my scribbled graph.

So now what is normal and what is not?

This is why the issue is so convoluted.

BTW there are no seasons. There is only climate change from these 3 months to the next 3 months.



[edit on 31-1-2010 by watcher73]

reply to post by mc_squared

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Look watcher I gotta go, but just relax a bit - this doesn't have to be a pissing contest. Just try and take some of that stuff in with the slightest shred of an open mind instead of like someone's trying to tell you there's no Santa Claus.

Next time we can have a nice adult conversation about it,

cheers.

Originally posted by mc_squared
reply to post by mc_squared

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Look watcher I gotta go, but just relax a bit - this doesn't have to be a pissing contest. Just try and take some of that stuff in with the slightest shred of an open mind instead of like someone's trying to tell you there's no Santa Claus.

Next time we can have a nice adult conversation about it,

cheers.

If by adult you mean tell us all how smart you are then refuse to answers questions about anything then no.

If by adult you mean tell us all how smart you are then run away when faced with real evidence then no.

If by adult you mean throw up a red herring then run away, no.

No to you. No to your false "science".

[edit on 31-1-2010 by watcher73]

reply to post by watcher73

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And so now we're back to this, great...

If by adult you mean tell us all how smart you are then refuse to answers questions about anything then no.

Where did I refuse? Sometimes it's a little hard to pick out the actual questions amongst all the ranting and raving.

And for the record I had already warned you I had to leave soon - you used that time to instead argue over what the word reason means, so who's throwing red herrings up where now?

But again this is just what I said in the other post -

It's like all the deniers in here are having one giant party about how they've "exposed the scam", and the "house of cards is collapsing" and all this deluded hi-fiving and congratulating each other. Then when someone comes in and says well wait a minute, there's more to the story - it either gets entirely ignored or you guys start freaking the hell out and saying stuff like this:

No to you. No to your false "science".

I mean do you have any idea how much you sound like some lunatic wacko creationist? "down with science!! booooo!"

SHOW ME where the science is false. And by that I mean show me THE SCIENCE not the stupid emails. And by FALSE I mean
show me some definitive proof that thoroughly debunks any connection man has with global warming, NOT "oh look they got some dates wrong about glaciers, or there's some uncertainty about this thing - buuuuuuurrrrrrrn Obvious SCAM!!".

Those videos cover a million and ten things deniers have gotten completely wrong so far. And as I said before you want proper sources for those myths - then name one and I'll find you the documentation.

But every time one of these stupid myths gets debunked anyway, it's swept under the rug and the next day someone else is back using it like it's fact. Meanwhile any error by a climate scientist (yes those know-it-alls #### up too sometimes) is clear 100% automatic proof climate change is a hoax.

Ridiculous double-standard.

By the way - if your position on the issue is so secure and infallible - why do you get so defensive and angry when someone challenges it?

reply to post by mc_squared

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Also, unfortunately the sad truth again is most people aren't rational

I really feel that there is a misunderstanding between the two groups. One side feels as though the evidence of a conspiracy is as plain as day. The other side feels as though it should be taken seriously and fear for everyone in the near future.

If I might ask a few questions to get us on the same playing field. I really do feel as though we are and just do not know it.

1. Would you as a man made global warming advocate be opposed to a global tax? Knowing the ramifications of it.

2. Would you as a man made global warming denier be willing to let the carbon emissions continue unchecked? Knowing the ramifications of it.

I am not trying to derail but get back on topic a little bit. So in answering number two as a denier, I would not let it go unchecked. I would be in agreement with making companies run cleaner. So long as it doesn't end up with us in a concentration camp.

Originally posted by mc_squared

These guys:

People who deny that CO2 has any effect whatsoever on climate

Actually people like you are the deniers of truth.

Sorry buddy the AGW religion is dying and falling all around you, and people like you are just blind believers in it even though the people you want to believe in have been shown to have lied, hid evidence, erased/destroyed data because it refutes the AGW lie. They had to rig data, use false information KNOWINGLY. They use and used every legal, and illegal way to keep people like you in the dark, and to discredit any scientist who dared publish, or try to publish any research that refutes AGW.

They even talked about changing the "peer-review process" if necessary to keep up with the AGW lie, and still people like you want to believe them?.... It is obvious who the "deniers of truth are".... We are not denying NATURAL Climate Change...we are denying the lie which has been exposed, yet people like you want to keep believing in it...

Originally posted by mc_squared

Ok fair enough. But is that a good enough reason to dismiss the whole issue altogether? Because that's exactly what a lot of people use as an excuse to just go right back to sleepwalking through life and not giving a bleep what we do to this planet.

You see, this is part of the problem with people like you.... Atmospheric CO2 DOES NOT DESTROY THE PLANET.... in fact people like me have been trying to show you that CO2 is BENEFICIAL for all life on Earth...

Successful indoor growers implement methods to increase CO2 concentrations in their enclosure. The typical outdoor air we breathe contains 0.03 - 0.045% (300 - 450 ppm) CO2. Research demonstrates that optimum growth and production for most plants occur between 1200 - 1500 ppm CO2. These optimum CO2 levels can boost plant metabolism, growth and yield by 25 - 60%.

www.planetnatural.com...

That's just ONE research, there is research that shows that atmospheric levels of CO2 even at 2,400 PPM IS BENEFITIAL TO EARTH.....

Higher levels of atmospheric CO2 are known to benefit nature, trees, plants, and all green biomass of the planet.... This means that animals and humans have more food.... But for some reason these facts escape people like you...

Right now atmospheric level of CO2 are at 380ppm, in fact even with the anthropogenic increase of CO2 Earth is deprived right now of atmospheric CO2....

The planet has existed with higher levels of atmospheric CO2 than at present and life THRIVED....including rainforests, other trees, plants, and animals on land, and in the oceans....

You want to keep believing the people who have been lying to you and have been brainwashing people like you?.... Go ahead, but the fact of the matter is that you are not being rational, you are just being emotional, reacting based on a BELIEF, nothing more....and your reaction will cause the worse environmental impact that mankind has ever caused...and you are essentially demanding for the starvation of billions of more people, because that's what these programs to "combat atmospheric CO2" will do....

Originally posted by mc_squared

The fact that some people make over the top claims is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

For crying out loud NO ONE is saying to keep releasing the REAL chemicals, and gases that are bad to the environment.... NO ONE is saying that we should destroy the rainforests.....

People like you are INCAPABLE of understanding the difference... You think that CO2 is "bad for the planet" when research SHOWS THE CONTRARY....

Originally posted by mc_squared
I think it just reflects the sad truth about society in general more than anything. People are so apathetic - they don't care about anything until it gets sensationalized.

What the hell?...no, the fact of the matter is that people like you reflect what is wrong with others who think like you. You want to react based on EMOTIONS and not logically...

The ones not caring one bit about the environment are people like you... you know why?... because of your BELIEF you want to deprive of nature, and Earth of a gas which is needed by all life on this planet....including trees, plants, insects, animals and humans....

Originally posted by mc_squared
Global Warming is the same thing - we've known about it's potential severity for decades, but nobody even bothered to care enough to ask whether it was over-hyped back then. Now because we all twiddled our thumbs for 20 years - and now because those same people claiming the same severity 20 years ago are saying the problem is so urgent we need drastic action - and now because there's potential taxes involved, all of a sudden everyone's getting their panties in a bunch and claiming oooooh it's over-hyped and it's all a scam.

.... Global Warming has been shown to be NATURAL...that CO2 has NOTHING to do with it. There is no evidence whatsoever that proves that atmospheric CO2 causes the warming claimed by the AGW believers... NONE whatsoever... The only thing you people have are FLAWED computer models which will show anything a program tells the models to do....

Is it a scam?... Even the people who participated in the scam HAD TO ADMIT THEY USED ERRONEOUS DATA JUST TO PUSH FOR THEIR AGENDAS, yet you still want to believe them even though these people admitted it is nothing more than a SCAM?...

People like you are reacting so irrational that you can't understand the fact that taxes on CO2 ARE NOT GOING TO SOLVE ANY PROBLEM.... in the contrary it will CREATE problems.... Do you have any idea that if plants, and trees don't have enough atmospheric CO2 their growth is stunned, and they stop growing and producing?.... That's what this fight against CO2 will cause....

People like you, who claim to be environmentalists, you are NOT environmentalists because you are willing to destroy Nature, by depriving it of atmospheric CO2, for the sake of your RELIGION...

That's what your religion is doing... I know for a fact that several governments, and universities are starting programs to sequester atmospheric CO2 because I was offered a job back in Florida to be part of such a research, and I found out through my Senator that there are such programs in place... Even legislation is being passed to give funding to universities that do research on atmospheric CO2 sequestration..

You want to care about the people in Haiti yet you don't want to give a damn about the billions of people whose main source of food are rice patties which is the biggest source of methane on the planet?....

BTW, in case you dind't know rice patties also release CO2, as well as other vegetables, beans, and other harvests which are used to feed people around the world...

You don't care about those billions of people who live only because they can grow rice, or beans.... you only care about your religion... So don't give us your absurb and self-righteous speech because it only shows your irony and contempt for human life, and even Nature....

Originally posted by mc_squared

Totally disagree - if no one has debunked the "IPCC's theory" about sun-spot related climate change, then yes it does. By your own logic just because some person got some date wrong about glaciers, that shouldn't affect the data someone else produced over sun-spots. Just because they were included in the same report shouldn't have anything to do with it.

What in the world are you talking about?... First of all it is a FACT that during the late 20th century and part of the 21st century the Sun's activity was at the highest it has been in over 1,000 years.... The sun's activity had been continuously increasing during that time and the Sun's activity had continued to increase, although like always there were fluctuations, until about the end of 2005... then the Sun's activity lowered to a crawl, and GLOBAL temperatures DROPPED at the same time....

It is also a FACT that the Earth's magnetic field started to weaken back in 1840, and it has continued to weaken and it is now weaker than it has been in tens of thousands of years.... in fact it is so weak and it is fluctuating so much that large breaches are forming in a manner that scientists didn't think could occur, because until they saw this they thought such events could not occur the way they formed...

There is more evidence that shows that the ongoing Climate Change has been caused by ALL natural factors and not by atmospheric CO2....

Originally posted by mc_squared
You mean like the completely misleading info in this movie? Also, unfortunately the sad truth again is most people aren't rational

A movie?.... The actual truth is that unfortunately you are a prime example of people who are irrational, and want for billions of lives to starve, and even to cause the worse environmental impact mankind will cause just because of your "beliefs"...just because you want to keep your AGW religion alive nomatter what....



[edit on 1-2-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Where can you find the most ignorant people on the net?
I fear I know it....


Is Global Warming a Hoax?
By Larry West, About.com Guide

Question: Is Global Warming a Hoax?

Isn't it true that the global warming scare is really just a hoax perpetrated by environmentalists who want to attract more funding and liberals who want to promote big government?

Answer: No, it is not true.

This argument surfaces every now and then during discussions of global warming, often supported by some random and isolated bit of outdated information, but it is a ridiculous claim.

Scientific Consensus on Global Warming
Worldwide, every major scientific agency or institution that studies climate, oceans or the atmosphere agrees that the global climate is warming rapidly and the primary cause is greenhouse gas emissions related to human activity. Even a short list would include such notable organizations as:

National Academy of Sciences (NAS)
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS)
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
The Royal Society of the UK (RS)
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS)
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
The Politics of Global Warming
The idea that global warming is a hoax picked up some support in the political realm in July 2003, when U.S. Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla), former chairman of the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, concluded a long speech on the Senate floor with these words:
“With all of the hysteria, all of the fear, all of the phony science, could it be that man-made global warming is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people? It sure sounds like it.”

Even in 2003, Inhofe’s claims couldn’t stand up to much scrutiny. Today, the senator would find it even harder to rally political support for the notion that global warming is a hoax.

When the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change released its report on The Physical Basis of Climate Change in February 2007, 113 nations immediately endorsed its conclusion that human activity is responsible for the acceleration of global warming since the beginning of the Industrial Age.

In January 2007, the U.S. House of Representatives created a new Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming, and Republicans and Democrats in both the House and the Senate have introduced legislation to curb greenhouse gas emissions significantly over the next few decades.

Business and Industry Acknowledge Global Warming
It’s not only the majority of scientists and politicians who accept the reality of human-caused global warming. Leading businesses across all industries also acknowledge the problem of global warming.

The U.S. Climate Action Partnership, an unprecedented alliance between corporate executives and environmental groups that launched in January 2007 has proposed a federal cap-and-trade program that would cut greenhouse-gas emissions 60 percent to 80 percent by mid-century.

Even more telling, perhaps, are the positions taken by some oil companies.

BP, the largest oil company in the UK and one of the largest in the world, has this to say about global warming:

“There is an increasing consensus that climate change is linked to the consumption of carbon based fuels and that action is required now to avoid further increases in carbon emissions as the global demand for energy increases.”

And Shell Oil says:

“Shell shares the widespread concern that the emission of greenhouse gases from human activities is leading to changes in the global climate.”

Conclusion
To make the case that global warming is a hoax, someone would have to believe that environmentalists and political liberals control businesses and industries worldwide as well as the legislative bodies and scientific institutions of every developed nation in the world. That would be a hard case to make.

SOURCE:
environment.about.com...


And now: Believe this sites?!?!?!

plantsneedco2.org...
globalwarminghoax.com...
thinkprogress.org... LOL
icecap.us...

Owend CO2ISGREEN Network:

www.api.org...
www.nam.org...
www.uschamber.com...
scienceandpublicpolicy.org... (witch is full of disinfo on main page)
www.foxnews.com...
www.humanevents.com... (conservative obama bash site)

SOURCE? Washingtonpost!!
www.washingtonpost.com...

Only one post today - peace out.

One thing i Found just now:

go here:

plantsneedco2.org...

He is:
H. Leighton Steward
Director
EOG Resources, Incorporated
Houston , TX
Sector: BASIC MATERIALS / Independent Oil & Gas

74 Years Old

Mr. Steward is author-partner of Sugar Busters, LLC, a provider of seminars, books and products related to helping people follow a healthy and nutritious lifestyle. He retired from Burlington Resources, Inc., an oil and gas exploration, production and development company, in 2000, where he had served as Vice Chairman since 1997. Mr. Steward is former Chairman of the U.S. Oil and Gas Association and the Natural Gas Supply Association, and is currently an honorary director of the American Petroleum Institute.

Interesting, isn't it?

reply to post by cushycrux

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More talking points that have been proven, at most a bald faced lie, at least a bending of the truth . . .

And even a list to show us who falsified data!

Yay for you!

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

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Ironic how the GW/CC crowd is killing the planet by limiting the plant life's CO2.

Ironic indeed.





[edit on 2/1/2010 by Lemon.Fresh]

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

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Ironic how the GW/CC crowd is killing the planet by limiting the plant life's CO2.

Ironic indeed.

[edit on 2/1/2010 by Lemon.Fresh]

This is very logic - sure. 1'500'000'000 Years Plants lived without need of our "co2 ejection" - how could they alive? LOOK MR. FRESH - I don't get your drift. So please stop post #, thank you!

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