Protesters To Take Mass Overdose Outside Drugstore

Homeopathy over the years has become more and more popular. I think that it is because people, especially in the last decade, have become more informed.

We know more now about the side-effects of pharmaceuticals, in fact, there are many more warnings on labels now than there were 20 years ago. MANY more.

So turning to homeopathy seems a natural (no pun intended) choice. It would seem that natural/alternative remedies would be more popular.

But for some people, the choice isnt between "pharma-bad" and "Homeo-good".


Homeopathy Protesters take mass overdose outside of Boot's Pharma.

If you dont know what "Boot's" is, it is a chain of pharmacy outlets popular in the UK. Click here to learn about Boot's

Sceptics to swallow whole bottles of pills outside Boots stores to try to show remedies are ineffectiveHundreds of sceptics will stage a "mass overdose" outside Boots stores around Britain tomorrow to protest against the chain's continuing sale of homeopathic remedies and to argue that such treatments have no scientific basis.

The event ‑ called 10:23 ‑ will see the protesters swallowing the contents of entire bottles of homeopathic pills to illustrate their claims that such remedies "are nothing but sugar pills".

It is being co-ordinated by the Merseyside Skeptics Society, a non-profit organisation dedicated to "developing and supporting the sceptical community".The "overdoses" will take place outside Boots stores in Birmingham, Bristol, Brighton, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Hampshire, Leeds, Leicester, London, Liverpool, Manchester, Oxford and Sheffield.

Full article

Wow.

That seems a little excessive, but you have to admire the pssion.


What do you think, ATS friends?

Do you think maybe "big pharma's" practices have leaked into homeopathy?

Do YOU believe that homeopathy works?



[edit on 29-1-2010 by InertiaZero]

Originally posted by InertiaZero
But for some people, the choice isnt between "pharma-bad" and "Homeo-good".

It's what's reality and what's delusional nonsense.

You can't overdose on nothing

reply to post by InertiaZero

Protesters To Take Mass Overdose Outside Drugstore

Edit/addition:
Homeopathic/natural remedies have been around far longer than big pharma. Our grandparents and their parents relied on tried and true natural remedies for problems when there was nothing else around. At least some do work... as our survival as a species has proven.
Edit...

I have never understood why people so devote themselves to trashing someone else's beliefs. The skeptoids and debunkos commit time and energy not to the discovery or proving, but to the anti-discovery and the denial. In a way, they are like parasites that cannot exist on their own without a host to both feed from and slowly destroy.

But be that as it apparently indeed is, it is their life to spend as they please. It does seem like such a waste, though.



[edit on 29-1-2010 by redoubt]

Originally posted by redoubt
But be that as it apparently indeed is, it is their life to spend as they please. It does seem like such a waste, though.

You actually think homeopathy works and therefor they'll overdose and die?

And if absolutely nothing happens?

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus

Originally posted by redoubt
But be that as it apparently indeed is, it is their life to spend as they please. It does seem like such a waste, though.

You actually think homeopathy works and therefor they'll overdose and die?

And if absolutely nothing happens?

See edit/addendum in my initial comment.

Beyond that... I think they probably are far less toxic in higher does than some chemicals we buy from our pharmacy.

reply to post by redoubt


Anti-discovery?

They are fighting for the truth covered in the drapes of lies. What the hell are you talking about?

If these protesters stance actually has merit (meaning if they do "Overdose" and absolutely nothing happens whether they know it or not) then I am very happy for them.

Some people would rather live in the hard life called reality; based on truth. Others would like to live a life of ignorance and bliss.

The life of ignorance and bliss is for instant gratification and serves few long term benefits. Thanks to skeptics and debunkers, we are always a step closer to living in reality that we can actually build upon.

If you are against a "skeptic" (which nothing is wrong being one) because they think someone is telling a BS lie and want them to be discovered for the slander they put forth, then you are only further pushing the agenda of ignorance and bliss in this world.

Money is power which these pharmaceutical companies have. I hope their products actually help people rather than being placebos portrayed as something else. It is peoples decision to buy these products, but it is also the decision of the protesters to argue it.

Everything big Pharma sells comes from nature. Aspirin from White Willow Bark, Digitalis from Foxglove, Opium from poppies... many other examples available. It's all in the way it is dosed and the approach towards getting to a theraputic level.

Personally, I believe, depending on what those folks are taking, some of them may have the opposite reaction to what they *might* expect, some would have no affect, and others might have an acute affect that goes away quickly (if they don't get terribly ill).

What I don't understand is why these sceptics seem to think that just because a medical researcher hasn't signed off on it, it is totally fake. I wonder how many of these folks take over the counter "regular" meds without ever questioning the research behind it.

Edit to add:

Homeopathy is typically a technique of treating people with a diluted preparation of ingrediants thought to cause the very symptoms the person is trying to resolve. Thus the body can adapt to it and defeat the original problem. While, in my opinion, this might be mostly a psychological trick (as are sugar pills), it also doesn't sound too differant than the voodoo science of vaccination.

[edit on 1-29-2010 by rogerstigers]

Obviously, if they are all taking full bottles of pills that they claim are 'sugar pill's' to prove the point that nothing will happen to them....then nothing is going to happen.

They obviously are taking something that they KNOW will not hurt them if taken in excess.

Stupid!

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


Oops, no. I think that a degree of skepticism is a healthy thing. It saves us from stepping in smelly piles of poop.

I was referring to the industrial debunker/skeptic... who for no reason other than to disprove something, will step in that same smelly pile and call it a victory.

I have heard it said that it is impossible to disprove that anything exists in a universe that we can't even lay claim to understanding well enough to know all of what does.

Basically, why would you devote your life to prove something doesn't exist? If you don't believe it, isn't that good enough?

Originally posted by rogerstigers
What I don't understand is why these sceptics seem to think that just because a medical researcher hasn't signed off on it, it is totally fake. I wonder how many of these folks take over the counter "regular" meds without ever questioning the research behind it.

I don't know how people can argue that pharmaceutical companies, with their billions of dollars, would completely ignore a product that worked rather than develop it and sell it.

It's called alternative medicine for a reason, it couldn't make the grade as actual medicine.

Would you buy an alternative heart transplant? Hey it's a goat's heart, but just because a medical research group hasn't signed off on it doesn't mean it won't work, right?

Placebo works. I personally would rather someone using placebo (like homeopathy) for numerous problems (like nasal congestion,common cold and such) instead of conventional drugs that treat only symptoms but can cause tons of side effects. I met too many people addicted to decongestant nasal drops with ruined mucosa. Or people who burned holes in stomach with NSAIDs.
So while i agree that homeopathy is not serious stuff, there is no reason to stage this "in spite" thing. Those who trust Materia Medica - will continue to trust it. Those who are wise enough not to - will continue to be wise.
Those who have no clue - will be influenced by sale person anyway, not by this act. Homeopathy guys will anyway say that more diluted stuff is more potent so in any case taking large amounts of homeopathy is pointless.
There are worse scammers in health care industry, recent swine flu scare is a fine example.

I've seen two of my close family members die of cancer. Along the way, they were subjected to chemo treatments that did nothing but ravage their bodies, cripple their loved ones bank accounts and make both pharma and doctor rich.

i saw this happen in real time, before my eyes. I heard a doctor tell me that he lied about the chance of survival so that the chemo treatments would not be refused.

They're all chemicals, and they all react in our bodies in one way or another. Heck, steak is a chemical that reacts in our body.

Homeopathy is popular with folks who are typically anti-establishment, and they're willing to pay big money to stick it to the man by not taking his pills.

The problem with it is, while Homeopathy promotes "natural" drugs, many of these are not extensively studied. It typically takes 7 years for a pharmacological drug to be approved by the FDA, and sometimes another 7 years to go to market. That's a lot of research into that drug before it can even be prescribed. Even then, only some doctors will do so, while others wait to see how those initial cases go. Believe it or not, your doctor doesn't want you dead, and they don't want you thinking you can't trust them. To be completely cynical, it's bad for business.

Meanwhile, someone can pick a plant, extract whatever and release "Ginkgo Biloba" pills that may or may not have ginkgo in them, because those herbal drugs are not as regulated by the FDA. Notice they say they "may" help x, y, or z on the label. This isn't to say they don't help those conditions, but that it hasn't been demonstrated in a conclusive manner.

Then there's also the placebo effect. It is very real, and widely studied. If I convince you a sugar pill is going to cure your migraine, there is a very real possibility it will. Even cancers have been shown to go into remission with placebos. This is why pharmacological drugs have to be blindly tested against placebos -- to establish that the drug has any effect. Many drugs fail this test not because they don't work, but because the placebos worked, too, sometimes even more effectively.

Homeopathic drugs, though possibly effective, have not been studied in the same way pharmacological drugs have been. There's a lot of unknowns surrounding them. To study them would cost millions if not billions of dollars and time, and no one is interested in doing that with a drug that cannot be trademarked -- there's no way to make your money back. That's not greed, that's avoiding bankruptcy.

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
I don't know how people can argue that pharmaceutical companies, with their billions of dollars, would completely ignore a product that worked rather than develop it and sell it.

It's called alternative medicine for a reason, it couldn't make the grade as actual medicine.

Actually, there is one other aspect you are missing here. They might be ignoring it because it doesn't work fast enough. People in the western world want a cold relief medicine that works in 30 minutes or less and lasts for 4-24 hours with zero symptoms. We don't want to wait a day or two to get to a theraputic level and/or work to support the body's natural functions while letting it heal itself using it's own mechanisms.

Alternate doesn't mean broken in the medical establishment. It means not gonna make them any money. For example, Caffine, which is a natural extract of various plants, actually has well documented and proven medical benefits (and side effects), but cannot be sold as a medicine -- only as an herbal supplement. Others can be added to the stack -- St. John's Wort, Yerba Mate, etc. They cannot be sold under a patent in their natural form, so in most cases, they are illegal to sell as a drug. They can only be sold as a homeopathic remedy or a natural herbal supplement.

As per the comment above this one, I agree, it is not always greed. But I have a problem with making them illegal or only available as a natural herbal supplement simply because they are not patentable... I thought it was all about marketting these days anyway.

[edit on 1-29-2010 by rogerstigers]

reply to post by junglejake


Wow!! Bravo!!


I think you might have hit the nail on the head.

Originally posted by redoubt
I've seen two of my close family members die of cancer. Along the way, they were subjected to chemo treatments that did nothing but ravage their bodies, cripple their loved ones bank accounts and make both pharma and doctor rich.

i saw this happen in real time, before my eyes. I heard a doctor tell me that he lied about the chance of survival so that the chemo treatments would not be refused.

That's terrible that your family member died of cancer but appealing to sympathy doesn't further your argument or tell us anything about the effectiveness of homeopathy. Some cancer is terminal, but to say that because your family member died during treatment of their cancer, that we can ignore the massive increase in the survivor rate of cancer patients over the past few decades due to modern treatments, is simply ridiculous.

Homeopathy isn't even "alternative medicine", there would have to be an active ingredient in it for that to be the case, it's a placebo.

This was previously reported on ATS. The whole thing is kinda silly. I just hope it doesn't have an effect on natrual herbs that actually are scientifically proven to be beneficial.

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
That's terrible that your family member died of cancer but appealing to sympathy doesn't further your argument or tell us anything about the effectiveness of homeopathy. Some cancer is terminal, but to say that because your family member died during treatment of their cancer, that we can ignore the massive increase in the survivor rate of cancer patients over the past few decades due to modern treatments, is simply ridiculous.

Homeopathy isn't even "alternative medicine", there would have to be an active ingredient in it for that to be the case, it's a placebo.

Okay pal, I wasn't looking for your GD sympathy. I was explaining my feelings on big Pharma.

Beyond that, if those idiots who purposely slug down bottles of hemeopathic meds don't die, all they have proven is that in high does, it is not as toxic as Rolaids.

Have a freakin nice day



[edit on 29-1-2010 by redoubt]

reply to post by InertiaZero


Science acknowledges (with some hesitation) that the placebo effect is real. So on that corelation homeopathy could work. However there are a lot of idiots out there who'll be influenced by these protesters instead of believing in their own healing abilities.

Safety and non-toxicity is one of the selling points for homeopathy. Being skeptical is one thing but defining your identity as a skeptic is pretty pathetic and ignorant.

Homeopathic and conventional treatment for acute respiratory and ear complaints: A comparative study on outcome in the primary care setting

Background
The aim of this study was to assess the effectiveness of homeopathy compared to conventional treatment in acute respiratory and ear complaints in a primary care setting.

Methods
The study was designed as an international, multi-centre, comparative cohort study of non-randomised design. Patients, presenting themselves with at least one chief complaint: acute (≤ 7 days) runny nose, sore throat, ear pain, sinus pain or cough, were recruited at 57 primary care practices in Austria (8), Germany (8), the Netherlands (7), Russia (6), Spain (6), Ukraine (4), United Kingdom (10) and the USA (8) and given either homeopathic or conventional treatment. Therapy outcome was measured by using the response rate, defined as the proportion of patients experiencing 'complete recovery' or 'major improvement' in each treatment group. The primary outcome criterion was the response rate after 14 days of therapy.

Results
Data of 1,577 patients were evaluated in the full analysis set of which 857 received homeopathic (H) and 720 conventional (C) treatment. The majority of patients in both groups reported their outcome after 14 days of treatment as complete recovery or major improvement (H: 86.9%; C: 86.0%; p = 0.0003 for non-inferiority testing). In the per-protocol set (H: 576 and C: 540 patients) similar results were obtained (H: 87.7%; C: 86.9%; p = 0.0019). Further subgroup analysis of the full analysis set showed no differences of response rates after 14 days in children (H: 88.5%; C: 84.5%) and adults (H: 85.6%; C: 86.6%). The unadjusted odds ratio (OR) of the primary outcome criterion was 1.40 (0.89–2.22) in children and 0.92 (0.63–1.34) in adults. Adjustments for demographic differences at baseline did not significantly alter the OR. The response rates after 7 and 28 days also showed no significant differences between both treatment groups. However, onset of improvement within the first 7 days after treatment was significantly faster upon homeopathic treatment both in children (p = 0.0488) and adults (p = 0.0001). Adverse drug reactions occurred more frequently in adults of the conventional group than in the homeopathic group (C: 7.6%; H: 3.1%, p = 0.0032), whereas in children the occurrence of adverse drug reactions was not significantly different (H: 2.0%; C: 2.4%, p = 0.7838).

Conclusion
In primary care, homeopathic treatment for acute respiratory and ear complaints was not inferior to conventional treatment.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...