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Originally posted by whitewave
Well said, concerned citizen, however, I already touched on this thought process in my opening post.
"No doubt, life was difficult in the extreme for our forebears, yet out of love for life, zest of living, respect for life, they IMPROVED their conditions in order to OVERCOME the hardships of their life. By so doing, they improved the standard of living conditions for us all. They would doubtless scoff to hear this generation whining about the hardships of life while taking a frozen pizza out of the freezer, popping it in the microwave and setting down in front of the TV in an air-conditioned, electrically lighted house to eat it.
Our forebears invented these modern conveniences so that they, as well as their children (us), might enjoy life more fully. Yes, working in a field 12+ hours a day and raising 14 children led to an average lifespan of 40 years; however, we do not have that consideration, thanks to their life-affirming contributions. This generation, with it's drive-by shootings, et al, concedes by it's lifestyle that life is of no value (or little value) and so would rather destroy any potentially inconvenient lifeforms than overcome the hardships imposed by them."
Basically, how about we fix the problems rather than kill innocents in order to avoid the problems? One is a pro-active solution, the other is an avoidance technique born out of fear.
Originally posted by conandtelI bet since your a "women" that duty must fall to the man. Since you would be unable to have a baby, without a MANS sperm.
Originally posted by rusethorcain
So you are saying I should put my life in jeopardy, and I should bring another unwanted child into your world because it is so messed up, because it is such a hellish place- like that would fix it.
You are putting the egg before the chicken.
Fix your God forsaken planet and maybe I will bring a baby into this world...otherwise all mine go to heaven and you should be somewhat pleased that I did not wait for them to be born before killing them as so many other mothers are driven to do - Now we all support them in jaill...For what? So you can force your quaint moral agenda on them.
I was dumped by both parents and later adopted. Believe me...Not everyone is so thankful they were even born. You make the case yourself: Look what you have allowed miserable, unwanted children, do to this magnificent planet and great plan for life.
Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by whitewave
I appreciate your position but unlike you I do not view early termination as death of "a life" but the end of the possibility of a life.
Yes, I've heard the "parasite" argument before and find it deeply disrespectful of life. Active intervention is required to stop the "potential" from actualizing. Birth control is a passive resistance that prevents the need for active euthanasia.
There was a time when I said I believe abortion should be legal, even though I personally would never have one.
I understand and respect your feelings on the matter but I find the logic to be confusing. You personally would not kill but you think others should have the right to kill if they want/need to? I find that thinking to be akin to saying, "I personally wouldn't own a slave but won't stand in the way of anyone else who wants to own a slave for themselves." Or, "I personally don't want to lynch any blacks but if you feel that you have no other choice or that blacks are inconvenient to you, then I support your right to lynch blacks."
Sometimes there is no other choice.
True. If you value life you save what you can of it. If the mother's life is in mortal danger then she is the obvious choice to save. Fortunately, such life-boat ethics are seldom required.
You or any man cannot know that because we do not share experiences or walk in each others shoes.
I've never walked in a black man's shoes either but I'm fairly sure they don't want to be slaves or lynched. One doesn't need to go through every imaginable scenario that could ever possibly occur to know and understand that some things are wrong on principle. People encountering difficulties need our support but not at the expense of someone else's life.
In a perfect world abortions would be few and a last resort.
How can this even have a hope of happening as long as there is sexualization of children coupled with no sex ed in schools, brief jail sentences for sex crimes and child abuse, prevalent advertising for Viagra type products coupled with an overriding message that using birth control is BAD?
I agree that we can not hope to deal with the symptoms of the problem without first recognizing and addressing the source of the problems. There IS sex education in school but it's politicized. In fact, I was told by my son's teacher that the word "AIDS" is not allowed to be mentioned during sex education class! I'm thinking that sort of nonsense needs to stop.
How can we curb unsolicited pregnancies when whole religions are teaching birth control is bad and it is the sex itself that should cease (this ain't gonna happen) so we are in a terrible cycle of birth and death and arguing over it all when simple steps could be taken to save these beginnings of life.
On this point we are in total agreement. I am very much a proponent of birth control. I think Catholics are the only ones encouraged to breed and ignore birth control. Having been raised Catholic, I know quite a few Catholics. Not one of them, male or female, pays any attention to that part of their religion and they practice birth control anyway.
I had a friend Jack with an old fashioned Irish mother. She loved Jack dearly and forbade he go to war. "Before I let you go to war - I will take you out back and shoot you myself." You may not understand that as even showing love for your child, but I do.
In your example (which I can neither condone nor condemn), the mother is adamant to SAVE the life of her child by all means necessary.
No one is pro abortion
I strongly disagree. In fact, I think it has become such a polarized topic that politicians must "prove" themselves by submitting to the all important question of where they stand on the issue of abortion. It's like "try-outs" for football. You pass and can be part of the political team if you are in favor of abortion.
and I think many abuses concerning children are over looked while we fight over this amongst ourselves.
I don't see any reason why we can't deal with both issues. It's not an either-or situation. We cry about the poor innocent children being killed on a daily basis in wars then slaughter our own with never a moment's consideration. I'm sure there are women (and men) who agonize over such painful decisions and perhaps feel guilt or remorse for their actions. It is not our place to condemn these self-tortured souls but to educate them so that they are never again in a position to choose death rather than life.
You are a good person and I admire your convictions FOR YOURSELF.
This nation is based on laws that were based on an agreed upon set of personal convictions. The very first guaranteed right acknowledged by our law of the land (the Constitution) is the right to life.
I do find it senseless that while your side kills doctors and terrorizes innocent girls and desperate women there are abductions, and child trafficking and abuses we could join forces and tackle much better together.
While I in no way condone the murderous actions of those who kill abortionists, I find it ironic that it so mimics your story of Jack and his mother; the one you considered an act of love. I stand with you in your worthy goal of eradicating child abuses and child trafficking along with all the rest. Peace.
Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by Oceanborn
Actually, abortion IS all about my body. It is only about the choice I have to make, whether to allow the parasitic cells that cannot survive outside its host (me), to grow into a viable human being, or to abort the growth of those cells before they can leach any more life from the host, my body.
What does a man's view have to do with this decision? Nothing, because once the man removes his member from the host body, his involvement is complete, and anything else that occurs in relation to the sex act fall squarely and singularly onto the female's shoulders.
If a woman shares her pregnancy with her man, that still falls under....her choice.
Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by orangetom1999
This is a whole lot of space to say almost nothing. I think you should just leave your neighbor alone and let her find a nice person to help her around the house. You seem to be reading way too much into what your neighbor "really" expects from you. Sometimes a woman just needs a little help putting up her security lights.
You should keep all your tools in the box.
Originally posted by Dr Conspire
Just one thought, if abortion is ok, then why do we value our own lives?
If the termination of a potential life in the womb is ok then surely all life is devalued?
Dop unto others? na ...thats only for those not aborted.