Abortion musings

reply to post by Oceanborn


I understand your point, however I agree with hotbakedtater... they are parasites. They are not viable outside of a host. I had one in me once... and gave birth to it 38 weeks later. I guarantee that I felt like I had been taken over by another entity the entire 38 weeks. I love my daughter... but I could not wait until it was over. Pregnancy is not the beautiful glorious picture that seems to be painted. It is hard... and to make the choice to carry a pregnancy to term should not be taken lightly. The resulting child is a real life, one that is viable and capable of many wonderous things. If a person is not ready or able in anyway to care for that child it is not fair to bring it into this world. Adoption is an option, only if that is a choice the woman makes, bearing in mind that she still has to bring the pregnancy to term and then hand the living, breathing child over to someone else. That is not a choice I could EVER make.

I am pro-choice. For me adoption and abortion are not a choice I can in good conscious make. However, I will not decide what is right or wrong for another in this matter. It is far too complicated for me to intervene. It is a PERSONAL choice and the PERSON who is 100% affected by the choice is the woman. The handful of cells is not a person, it is a handful of cells.

reply to post by siouxm


Who said that i'm against abortions...?Who said that i take pregnacy lightly...?

Tsk...to all those who read this post,do me a favor and just leave me out of this thread.No kidding,i allready had enough.

I just want to add one more thing. Sex does not create a child. Sex creates an opportunity for a child. The process of pregnancy over 40 weeks creates a child. Nurturing, feeding, loving and caring for the fetus creates a child that is being welcomed into the world by someone who truly wants it.

In fairness to the child they should be wanted and loved and cared for. How heartbreaking to hear stories of unwanted babies that end up abused or neglected. That makes me sick.

As unfortunate as abortion is, it is an option that seems far more humane than abuse, neglect and a child that is simply not loved or wanted.

Originally posted by Oceanborn
Oh,so they're....parasites...Nice way to make em sound quite unwanted and i have no idea what else.

Well, they aren't wanted by a woman who gets an abortion. If she wanted it, she would have it.

Originally posted by Oceanborn
But what i'm saying here is that the fact that they're in the mother's body doesn't mean that it's just up to them.They have fathers too.

If the woman wants the input of the father, then certainly, he CAN have a say, but the final decision is the woman's. I don't believe the man has, or should have, any legal claim. He made his choice to give up his "say" when he deposited his seed.

reply to post by Oceanborn


I have not implied that you are against or for abortion. Your point is clearly that you feel men have a right to choose too.

I believe the father or potential father has a voice that has a right to be heard. However the final decision is the woman's.

He convinces her to keep it, her choice.
He convinces her to abort it, her choice.
He tries to convince her to keep it, her choice.
He tries to convince her to abort it, her choice.
They both want it, still her choice.

She lives with the consequence of the choice 100%, no matter what the decision is, it is her choice and her consequence. She is the one who will have another entity living in her for 40 weeks. She is the one who will push it out. She is the one who will suffer the backaches, nausea, vomiting, constipation, hemmoroids, stretch marks, swollen limbs, loss of hair, or not. It is her choice.

For a man to impose his will on her is abuse.

Voice, yes. Choice, no.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by habfan1968

 

It may take two to tango, but only one of us completes this dance.

That is true in the physical sense only, from an emotional and psychological pov the male has the same issues to deal with.

reply to post by siouxm


"The handful of cells is not a person, it is a handful of cells."


Ahh....see? There it is.

I knew it was coming.

This pretty much sums it up for me-

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5702d6f45559.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
My opinion on abortion is quite simple. So this won't be a very long response.

One, it is always a woman's choice. My body, MY CHOICE.

Two, because men cannot give birth and can never be in the position to need an abortion, the opinion of men on abortion to me(as a female) is moot.

Ah, well don't be offended but no It's not your body. It happens to reside in your uterus but it has its own body, it's own heart, it's own liver, its own mind and it's own potential.

When you get pregnant your body becomes a habitat for someone else's body. I'm sure you would agree with me if your mother decided to abort you. Wait no you wouldn't because you wouldn't exist.

Furthermore your second statement was quite selfish. It takes two to tango. You made the decision to open your legs knowing full well that you where performing an act of reproduction. As was the male when he decided to have intercourse with you and release his fertilizer into you. Both of you are responsible for that life therefore both of you have the same say in what happens to that live. Just because you are the habitat doesn't mean you are the only one to which that child belongs.

All Abortion does is let a woman escape from accountability and responsibility. No wonder our society is so screwed up. No one has to be responsible for anything anymore.

Plus wouldn't adoption be a better solution? There are millions of people that want the kid that you would rather murder. Why not give it to them? It's not like you care what happens to your baby anyway right? In fact I'm sure you will take pride in the fact that it will resent you the rest of its life. Perhaps taking its future away with a vacuum to the cranium is a better option?

reply to post by Dock9


Really? You think it's only the man's responsibility to protect against pregnancy? The woman is not responsible for this?

In the way back time I believed this, too. I was ignorant then, though.

Yes, though, as a single young man who didn't want to impregnate a woman, I used protection.

One of my daughters got pregnant at 15. The boy used a condom, but my daughter pulled it off because...............well, it just felt better to her when the boy didn't have a condom on. My opinion on this? Both were responsible for the child that resulted from this.

The choice for her having an abortion or not, was her choice.

However, one of my sisters, who was also raised in the way back time, placed all blame upon the boy for the pregnancy. How stupid and ignorant is that attitude? To me it is very stupid and ignorant. Both parties participated, knowing the possible results. The, oh, I'm just a girl and I am at the mercy of a boy is BS, in my opinion.

Now, if you were to talk to my daughter about this situation, she will tell you, she was the one who could get pregnant. She was not raped. She was not coerced. She initiated the removal of the condom. SHE was the person in control then. Yikes. I am rambling, but then the title of this thread is abortion musings. And I am musing towards that point, again. She accepted her own responsibility in this event. She chose not to abort. And she lives with this decision everyday. She is not unhappy with the decision. But she does hold the boy, now a grown man's, toes to the fire anytime he shirks his responsibility for the child they BOTH created.

By the way, that unaborted human, now 14 year old girl, is quite a joy to all of us in our family. She's smart,, funny, she looks good, heh, and she keeps me on my toes concerning ideas about gods, no gods, religions, UFO's, ghosts, demons, life, death, living, society, politics, oh, I could go on for days about what she likes to consider and learn about and seek out and discuss. MY world is a better place because of her existance. As is her mother's.

Plus I notice it is only women that say the father shouldn't have a choice. This is probably because women are afraid that the fathers actually have a heart and actually care that some doctor is going to suck their child's brain matter out through their skulls. Of course the mothers in this case only care about themselves. Why else would they murder their own child? They just want their lives to go back to normal the way they always did, and forget that they destroyed someone else's life just so they wouldn't have to deal with diapers and potty training and watching them grow up and all that.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Mothers that go through with the act of abortion are permanently and horrifically psychologically traumatized for the rest of their lives. Looks like a win win for both parties eh? Mom gets to be screwed up for their entire life, and the baby doesn't get to have a future. Nice...

You would have probably been so proud when they graduated from college and excelled above you in every possible way.

P.S. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. This is a subject where I get quite angry and animated. Nothing personal...

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
My opinion on abortion is quite simple. So this won't be a very long response.

One, it is always a woman's choice. My body, MY CHOICE.

Two, because men cannot give birth and can never be in the position to need an abortion, the opinion of men on abortion to me(as a female) is moot.

How about the father of the baby? Doesn't he have right to have some say? I don't think its "moot" at all.

Originally posted by siouxm
reply to post by Oceanborn

 

I have not implied that you are against or for abortion. Your point is clearly that you feel men have a right to choose too.

I believe the father or potential father has a voice that has a right to be heard. However the final decision is the woman's.

He convinces her to keep it, her choice.
He convinces her to abort it, her choice.
He tries to convince her to keep it, her choice.
He tries to convince her to abort it, her choice.
They both want it, still her choice.

She lives with the consequence of the choice 100%, no matter what the decision is, it is her choice and her consequence. She is the one who will have another entity living in her for 40 weeks. She is the one who will push it out. She is the one who will suffer the backaches, nausea, vomiting, constipation, hemmoroids, stretch marks, swollen limbs, loss of hair, or not. It is her choice.

For a man to impose his will on her is abuse.

Voice, yes. Choice, no.

You, madam, impose your will on the unborn.

reply to post by Circle


The funny part about her is if we asked her "would you slit your children's throats". Her answer would be no. Yet she has no problem with other people killing their children.

Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by Circle

 

The funny part about her is if we asked her "would you slit your children's throats". Her answer would be no. Yet she has no problem with other people killing their children.

She doesn't respect human life or the feelings of men. She most be filled with so much hate. Where does it all come from?

Originally posted by Circle

Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by Circle

 

The funny part about her is if we asked her "would you slit your children's throats". Her answer would be no. Yet she has no problem with other people killing their children.

She doesn't respect human life or the feelings of men. She most be filled with so much hate. Where does it all come from?

Well of course not, obviously she reproduces asexually

Originally posted by DaMod
The funny part about her is if we asked her "would you slit your children's throats". Her answer would be no. Yet she has no problem with other people killing their children.

Originally posted by Circle
She doesn't respect human life or the feelings of men. She most be filled with so much hate. Where does it all come from?

What is this? You two don't have the guts to approach this other poster with solid arguments, so you resort to talking ABOUT her like schoolchildren? How lame.

Truth is, a fetus is not a child. They are two different things just as an egg and a chicken are two different things.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I think the comments made are solid answers based on a viewpoint we are entitled to have. The posts are there for anyone to respond. As long as everyone remains polite I can't think why there should be a problem.

We battle against injustice much the same way as the anti-slavery movement did a couple of hundred years ago. Keep going and truth, justice and compassion will win through.

[edit on 29-1-2010 by Circle]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by DaMod
The funny part about her is if we asked her "would you slit your children's throats". Her answer would be no. Yet she has no problem with other people killing their children.

Originally posted by Circle
She doesn't respect human life or the feelings of men. She most be filled with so much hate. Where does it all come from?

What is this? You two don't have the guts to approach this other poster with solid arguments, so you resort to talking ABOUT her like schoolchildren? How lame.

Truth is, a fetus is not a child. They are two different things just as an egg and a chicken are two different things.

HAHAHA. No I don't attack her. For all I know she is a great mother, a great wife and all that. What I attack is the hypocrisy of her ideals.

I'm not going about his like a child. I'm going about this like an Adult that is against an advocate of the murder of children.

You where a fetus once correct? You had a heart beat at what about 3 weeks? Now you're a full grown productive member of society. A person. Congratulations. Now at this point in time we would consider the fetus version of you and the adult version of you as two separate things. Yet here you are a working living version of a grown fetus with ideas, wants, and dreams all because you escaped abortion.

There are no solid arguments on the subject of abortion only selfish excuses made so that a mother can escape accountability.

(This of course does not include abortion for use in extreme medical emergencies)

You know what makes me mad? Abortion has become a form of birth control. Hey if I get knocked up all I gotta do is go to the doctor, have him suck my babies brains through a tube and whala, problem solved. By having sexual intercourse you are consenting to a child for the reward of an orgasm. You are performing a reproductive act willingly. It is only logical that you would have to face the consequences of your actions. Then again look at society today. The words accountability and responsibility no longer exist.

[edit on 29-1-2010 by DaMod]

[edit on 29-1-2010 by DaMod]